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Return to Genesis

Mr Silver

Commodore
Newbie
I had a look at Harve Bennett's original outline for what would become TSFS (you can read it here) and I was thinking about how the things regarding Spock couldn't work.

In the outline it's suggested that Spock never died and had instead been in some "trancendental state" and after recovering, he reverted into a Vulcan savage. I object to this premise since Spock's body was dead. Yes it was completely dead and had no hope of being alive after being exposed to the beyond lethal levels of radiation. Spock was covered in radiation burns and seemed to have lost his eyesight (as seen from when he walks facefirst into the engineering door). It doesn't make sense that they would fire his body into space (or burn it up in the Genesis atmosphere if you go by certain versions of the story) if there was even a small chance he was still alive.

I argue that McCoy would be well aware of Spock's anatomy and unique functions by the time of his death. In "By Any Other Name", Kirk is even aware of the Vulcan trance. Since this outline didn't include the "Katra" concept, it's hard to imagine how Spock could have survived had he been in this state as suggested. I'm going to get graphic here, so apologies.

Spock's tube was clearly not full sealed (David opened it with little effort in TSFS), it was able to be opened without any indication of decompression. I imagine because the intention was to fire his body into space that no such modifications were necessary. Now here is where it gets disgusting. As soon as Spock's body was exposed to the vaccum of space, any oxygen left in his body would have rapidly decompressed leaving his body mutilated and void of most fluids. We can assume that whatever was left of Spock was all that was required for the planet to regenerate his cells (after all, the microbes evolved from microbes to...well whatever they were! In the same amount of time). The point is, if Spock wasn't dead after being exposed to lethal levels of radiation, he most certainly would have been following the firing of his body into space.

The final thing is of course what role Spock saying "remember" to McCoy plays in the movie. It's briefly touched upon in the outline, but it doesn't explain what exactly he is supposed to remember. I assume it was meant to explain the reason why they were all seeing apparitions of Spock, perhaps as the result of Spock's mind meld with McCoy. But, this doesn't fit either because why would Spock want them to see apparations of him which cause them to believe that he is still alive if he knew he was going to die? I don't think foresight is a Vulcan ability. So what was "remember" supposed to mean? Maybe it was Spock making sure McCoy remembered "all those arguments he lost"? :lol:

Thoughts?
 
that's a darker and weirder version of TSFS. All those "visions" pf Spock, and him not really being dead? WTF? And adding major subplots like political turmoil on Vulcan?

TSFS worked by keeping it simple: Genesis resurrects Spock, the crew goes rogue to get his body, they run into some Klingons, they fight, they win, they go to Vulcan and do the ritual.


That outline is just a little too out there.
 
It was a quick and dirty proposal to set things in motion. IIRC, a thought was that Spock's irradiated body was not going to be resurrected. There was no guarantee that Nimoy would return, or at least not return beyond one more appearance. The bizarre visions of Spock's essence in crewmen's mirrors might have lead to it somehow being captured/absorbed by his mentor Saavik, thus she replaces him on the Enterprise permanently, and takes on aspects of his personality for future telemovies.
 
I liked the Romulan element to the movie. I felt it would have been a much more intriguing story had the Romulans been the antagonists and not Kurge and co. I disliked Bennett's suggestion that Saavik "always loved Jim Kirk" and the whole romance between them, when Kirk is clearly old enough to be her father. It was clearly characterised in TWOK that Saavik had more of a hero worship thing going on for Kirk than anything else.

I disagree with both Carol and David not being included in the movie. As the scientists behind Project Genesis, one of them should have been either present on the planet or part of the renegade Enterprise crew.
 
"Chewing gum"!
:rofl:

That was an interesting read. We do see how the core themes of TSFS existed in Bennett's early treatment. I agree w/ others that, except for changing the Romulans to Klingons, the actual final film was much better. David's death especially was a powerful scene, and enhanced the themes of family and loss.

Doug
 
I disliked Bennett's suggestion that Saavik "always loved Jim Kirk" and the whole romance between them, when Kirk is clearly old enough to be her father.

And yet the mutual physical attraction between them was what they were going for in that alternate elevator discussion (used in ABC's TV premiere). It's a case of writers sowing seeds and seeing the strongest ones sprout.
 
And yet the mutual physical attraction between them was what they were going for in that alternate elevator discussion (used in ABC's TV premiere). It's a case of writers sowing seeds and seeing the strongest ones sprout.

That was just an idea though. I get the impression it was cut from the theatrical release because they realised it just wasn't going to work. Saavik essentially worships Kirk within the confines of logic, she sees him as the best and is perplexed when he reveals that he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru test.

This carries over to TSFS where Saavik expresses a colder view of Kirk which she applies to David ("Just like your father...so human" and "just like your father, you cheated"). It's kind of like finding out that the musician or actor that you idolise is a pretty normal person and it's even more shocking when you realise that they can actually do wrong. I get the impression that Saavik was disappointed that Kirk wasn't the logical and masterful commander that she thought he was. Then again, it was in her best interests to learn that the success of any mission is down to a group effort and not just the actions of one man.

One of the main themes of TWOK was about Kirk coming to terms with his age (Meyer mentioned it was supposed to be his 49th birthday, whilst others have suggested that he had just turned 50) and avoiding a potential midlife crisis. For Kirk it took coming to terms with the choices he had made in the past (leaving Carol and his son, letting Khan free, cheating on the Kobayashi Maru and of course avoiding death on a personal level) and getting back into the place where he felt most confident - Space.
 
For the record, guys, that is not Bennett's full outline, which was something like 16 pages long. That is just my redaction/review of the outline, a copy of which I own.

Thanks for reading.

Sir Rhosis, setting the record straight
 
For the record, guys, that is not Bennett's full outline, which was something like 16 pages long. That is just my redaction/review of the outline, a copy of which I own.

Thanks for reading.

Sir Rhosis, setting the record straight

I'd love to read the entire 16 pages (hint, hint).

Doug
 
I have a copy of a memo Nicholas Meyer sent to Bennett after reacting to "Return to Genesis." I'll see if I can pull it out and provide any interesting excerpts from it in a day or two.
 
And here are a couple of interesting excerpts from that letter in case anyone is interested (I've looked for the letter online, but have been unable to find it). In the letter, dated September 24, 1982, Meyer also asks if Nimoy will also play the part of his father (suggesting he hadn't seen "Journey to Babel" in 1982) and discusses the theme of the film at length (his read is that it is abandonment, though he also it is critical of the treatment, writing that it is "short on meaning").

Nicholas Meyer said:
I loved the blowing up and the loss of the Enterprise because the thing I hate most about "Star Trek" which I suppose I hate most about television is the everything-must-be-where-it-was-at-the-beginning dictum that governs all endings. That's why I tried so desperately to kill Spock -- just for a change. Blowing up the Enterprise seems to me to be grown-up stuff and I enjoyed it. I think there you can have again legitimate emotion as opposed to manufactured stuff.

Nicholas Meyer said:
My most serious single problem has to do with the question of payoffs. Why is Spock an apparition? Why isn't he dead? Why is he half-bestial when found? Did I miss something? And by what means does he manifest himself as an apparition to the crew of the Enterprise and for what purpose? And what is it that Bones was supposed to remember? These are questions to which -- unless I have been dense or too tired in my reading -- I was unable to discover the answers. [Do you think Leonard has enough to do? Do you think you'll be able to get George Takei to act?]
 
A legitimate question, really. They had to dangle special scenes in the second and fourth films to get Takei on board (both cut, ultimately).
 
A legitimate question, really. They had to dangle special scenes in the second and fourth films to get Takei on board (both cut, ultimately).

He almost missed the start of III, too. He was stung in the mouth by a bee while jogging in a fun run and had a severe reaction to the sting.
 
Nicholas Meyer said:
Do you think you'll be able to get George Takei to act?

Ouch!

Nicholas Meyer can't really talk though. He's not exactly the most prolific of directors and his love of all things "Hornblower" can be really annoying when trying to track down a TWOK interview that doesn't contain 18th century Naval comparisons.
 
Should have left Takei (and Koenig out) for common sense/career progression reasons. Chekov should have went back to being a first officer or captain and Sulu should have been on first officer track.

Either should have been Romulans all along or they should have had the Kruge stealing a Romulan ship bit. Klingon "Bird of Prey" never made much sense given Balance of Terror.
 
Would have better great to see the Sulu and Chekov team in ST6 as Captain and Exec alog with keeping Rand as Cumm officer.
 
Would have better great to see the Sulu and Chekov team in ST6 as Captain and Exec alog with keeping Rand as Cumm officer.

Pretty good idea but Chekov was a first officer long before Sulu, so Chekov should have probably been the captain. Uhura should be at the Academy or a lounge singer or something. Which movie is it where she's trying to type on her board but she has long nails obviously unsuited for it? I can see Scotty standing pat but doesn't anyone want to retire after decades in space? :D
 
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