Thomas Riker - Lt. Commander or better?

[Captain Fine]

I thought the idea of Tom Riker was really great... a kind of "revisit" to the Riker character, in a way that many fans would appreciate.

I was a bit ticked off that they turned him rogue in that DS9 episode. To me, Riker's core personality wouldn't have gone that route. It would've been intriguing if he had joined the DS9 team, forcing a revisit to his relationships with Worf and O'Brien in a different light. But I suspect Frakes was more interested in directing than acting by that point.

I kinda see your point, but they did explain in the episode that Tom Riker wasn't really Maquis material, and he was acting more like a Starfleet officer, and he was doing the right thing. Even in that episode, I think he was a good guy.

 

[CaptainStoner]

^ That's what I'm thinking. Those 'acts of valor' happened when, as Beverly clumsily put it, they were "the same person," so Tom has as much right to the promotion as Will does. I also found myself grimacing when Will gave him the trombone... really, man, you should give him like half the stuff in your quarters, they're as much his as yours.

The other thing that bothered me, watching this with with my girlfriend (her first viewing) was the idea of Deanna pulling away because "Tom would have made the same decision (not to meet on Risa) as Will did, had he gotten off the planet." Similar to Marty McFly not thinking 'fourth-dimensionally,' that's juvenile circular logic. The very point is that he did NOT get off the planet, and so instead of having a soaring career (his Priority A), he had NO career and eight years to mourn an unrequited lost love (Priority B). Since we are as much defined by our losses as our gains, I would venture that Tom Riker would NEVER be capable of putting his career before his relationship, after Nervala.

And a closing note on this episode, I find it interesting (on repeat viewings) how, in an attempt to make two equally balanced halves of a psyche, the show made Tom the completely sympathetic character, and made Will a big ol' bag of dicks.

Thoughts?

Well to be fair, the trombone probably does equal half or more. It was a hugely generous act.
I've only seen this one once! But Wil didn't come off a bag of dicks to me, I thought he defended his choices well, and his concern for Troi was genuine. It's true, Thomas is generally the more likeable guy - Wil has more of a crusty exterior and you don't see the "young" qualities of him as often.
Altogether a fascinating episode, I think I'll watch it again some time.

 

[Timo]

If these were any other two people, the argument about Tom going off to pursue a career might be considered dubious.

However, Troi knows Riker from before the incident, and has a good idea about the drives that burned inside him during his youth. On top of that, she's half Betazoid. Whatever she puts into words is probably a largely irrelevant expression of a deeper fact both she and Tom recognize: the continuing presence of the pre-duplication drive for a career. Troi knows the presence for a fact, and doesn't have to derive it from any sort of a cold argument!

As for the internal story logic for the survival of that drive, it's not that difficult to see. Tom may have missed eight years of opportunities for promotion - but he's going to be a celebrity soon enough, for his role in the original incident and for his spectacular later discovery, and the promotion that Will earned might not be too far away. In addition to this kickstart, Tom is aware of Will's record and knows his other self has stagnated at the E-D XO position, turning down command after command. It would be almost trivially easy for Tom to fly past Will in career terms, and almost irresistible for him to put right old wrongs that way.

Whether Troi could talk him out of it is another question; wooing Troi is another thing where Tom could be motivated to outdo Will. But Troi's assessment probably rings true for Tom, and serves Troi's own purposes well enough.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gary7]

^ Those are good points. The only thing about Thomas Riker that bends this slightly is that he was alone for 8 years, hoping Deanna was still out there and didn't get involved with someone else. Long separation can really change a person's perspective. So, he really could be earnest about wanting to be with Deanna over having a career. With Will Riker, he finds Deanna by chance on the Enterprise, but time has shifted his feelings to friendship more than anything else. No doubt, he still has an attraction for Deanna, but it's one of those things where both people have to be in the same frame of mind for it to rekindle. And of course, we all know that this does happen later on in the TNG movies.

Thomas Riker has more drive than Will Riker, because he has been set back. I agree that he'd very likely catch up to Will and get his first command at least as soon if not sooner, of course, assuming he wouldn't try to pursue a marriage with Deanna and wouldn't have screwed up on DS9.

As for the trombone, can't something be completely replicated? How could you know the difference between the copy and the original? It was a nice gesture of Will to give it to him, but it didn't mean he'd be out of a trombone... he could have easily had his original one scanned so that an exact duplicate could be created. In any case, I wonder if Riker could have considered Tom like a twin, instead of a copy, and that they'd keep in touch. But apparently all the sour frustration within Tom probably put a dampener on that.

 

[Bob Karo]

As for the trombone, can't something be completely replicated? How could you know the difference between the copy and the original? It was a nice gesture of Will to give it to him, but it didn't mean he'd be out of a trombone... he could have easily had his original one scanned so that an exact duplicate could be created. In any case, I wonder if Riker could have considered Tom like a twin, instead of a copy, and that they'd keep in touch. But apparently all the sour frustration within Tom probably put a dampener on that.

I just got a thought of Will at the end of that conversation:

"Besides, that trombone's just a replicated copy of the real one."