6.5X010 The Girl Who Waited (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Professor Zoom]

Loved it. Loved that it required a small cast. Loved that it was such a high concept. Loved the theme: Older Amy wanting to go on, not removing the last 40 shitty years. Would you change your past? Loved that moment when Older Amy says, "Don't open it, because I WILL come in."

Loved it.

And I gasped when the Doctor closed the door on older Amy. He may have been right, but, up until that moment... I thought, maybe they're gonna do it, let her live, have her go off on her own, and then BLAM. Door in face.

Wow. Good episode.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

A snap reaction.

I always thought that RTD's Doctor Who work showed that he went to bed with Lawrence Miles' novels under his pillows, in much the same way that Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek work showed he went to bed with Robert Heinlein's books under his pillows.

I think this week proved conclusively that Steven Moffat goes to bed with Star Trek: Voyager DVDs under his pillows.

Yes, Moffat didn't write this, but he did commission it, so I think it's fair to lay the blame for the episode at Moffat's door.

Maybe it's because I've watched "Timeless" five times in the last month, but I didn't find anything special to "The Girl Who Waited." Yes, the performances from Darvill and Gillan especially were astonishing, and I cannot fault those. But the story was nothing Brannon Braga hasn't done a dozen times already.

Just because it's done with British accents doesn't make it new and different and compelling.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

Trek would have found a way for both to live happily, or reintegrated their timelines, or some such. The Doctor having to wipe out a life, bad one or not, to save its earlier version is rather deep.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

No, see Deep Space Nine's "Children of Time." That's probably closer to "The Girl Who Waited" than "Timeless" and has just as dark an ending.

 

[23skidoo]

Fantastic episode - right now neck and neck with Doctor's Wife as the best one of the year (and likely to surpass Doctor's Wife for its emotional hook). I saw only the most superficial of similarities with Timeless (responding to the comment above) - basically on the same level that Doctor Who in toto shares similarities with HG Wells' The Time Machine and the Daleks are riffs on Wells' Martians.

News flash: there is no such thing as an original story. Period. Full stop. Cannot be contradicted.

What the Girl Who Waited Is did with the concept was create is an emotional roller coaster, a story that explores what it means to be a companion in a way we haven't seen. We see a companion (2 companions actually) raging against the Doctor in a way we haven't seen since, really, Steven Taylor told the First Doctor to go ---- himself (only to change his mind 5 minutes later). Frankly, the Voyager episode had zero emotional impact and was nothing but a string of mcguffins thrown together. I honestly wasn't sure what the outcome was going to be on this - I could totally have seen the second older Amy actually leaving in the TARDIS and being resettled somewhere, perhaps for a future return appearance (I'm sort of sad that didn't happen).

When The Doctors' Wife aired I said that was the Hugo winner for 2012. I'm not so sure anymore as this one is definitely in the running. Not to mention if BBC America actually gets its act in gear I'd say they should try and get Karen Gillan an Emmy nomination for this - frankly all 3 leads could use this as their nomination reel. And yes they can because Helen Mirren was Emmy-nominated for Prime Suspect and Leo McKern was nominated for Rumpole and IIRC Ricky Gervais got a nod for Extras, too.

I'm just glad the ending wasn't spoiled by transmission problems the way the finale of Torchwood was in my part of Canada (see my rant in that thread). The image only pixellated a couple of times near the end.

Alex

 

[Ghost Bones]

A snap reaction.

I always thought that RTD's Doctor Who work showed that he went to bed with Lawrence Miles' novels under his pillows, in much the same way that Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek work showed he went to bed with Robert Heinlein's books under his pillows.

I think this week proved conclusively that Steven Moffat goes to bed with Star Trek: Voyager DVDs under his pillows.

Yes, Moffat didn't write this, but he did commission it, so I think it's fair to lay the blame for the episode at Moffat's door.

Maybe it's because I've watched "Timeless" five times in the last month, but I didn't find anything special to "The Girl Who Waited." Yes, the performances from Darvill and Gillan especially were astonishing, and I cannot fault those. But the story was nothing Brannon Braga hasn't done a dozen times already.

Just because it's done with British accents doesn't make it new and different and compelling.

That is sort of true, but Brannon Braga's best work is a pretty good thing to emulate in my view. Besides which, part of what made the episode so good for me was the aesthetic as well; those robots and the whole place being a bit Portally, and then that garden. These are the kinds of things I want to see from Doctor Who. The story and the details being complex Is Braga-y, but it's Moffatty still further, only it managed to not have any "Fall in love with me via Vulcan mind meld" or "Remember the universe back into existence" type jumps. Nor the offsetting of potentially intriguing story-telling with "Ooohooo, the Tardis only makes that noise because you leave the brakes on" rubbish.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

No, see Deep Space Nine's "Children of Time." That's probably closer to "The Girl Who Waited" than "Timeless" and has just as dark an ending.

True... Odo is the Doctor!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

What the Girl Who Waited Is did with the concept was create is an emotional roller coaster, a story that explores what it means to be a companion in a way we haven't seen. We see a companion (2 companions actually) raging against the Doctor in a way we haven't seen since, really, Steven Taylor told the First Doctor to go ---- himself (only to change his mind 5 minutes later).

I wouldn't completely agree with this. Let us not forget Tegan, Ace, and Donna. But nonetheless, it was very refreshing to see Rory yell at The Doctor like that and I hope that moment isn't forgotten.

No, see Deep Space Nine's "Children of Time." That's probably closer to "The Girl Who Waited" than "Timeless" and has just as dark an ending.

I completely disagree with what you said in regards to "Timeless" (I always felt "Timeless" was a good idea that suffered from lacking emotion), but I can see where you're coming from if you switched the argument with "Children of Time," which succeeded in every way (and more) "Timeless" failed. That being said, I still think "The Girl Who Waited" is still a great episode because it explored (as I mentioned in my review) The Doctor/married companions dynamic. It's this dynamic I've been wanting to see all season and has only been slightly touched on ("The Doctor's Wife").

 

[Psion]

Wonderful episode! Finally one worth watching this season. This is the kind of story I was expecting from Moffat's team this year.

Speaking as someone who's done old-age makeup a number of times, I was fascinated by the work on Karen. If only they'd thinned her hair a little bit or hinted at graying roots, but the prosthetic work was flawless. It was surprisingly supple and translucent ... was it silicone? Gelatin? Nicely done.

Top of the list for Season Six!

 

[Marc]

Best of the season, albeit with reservations -

I cannot think of a single sensible dramatic reason for the Doctor's lines and actions at the end other than a) to allow Karen Gillan a big and very good martyr speech, and b) to make the Doctor into a complete cunt so that he can be split from the Ponds next week in order to pop back to Lake Silencio for the big dirtnap. Blinovitch? No, Mawdryn proved you can have two people in the TARDIS (albeit *after* the boom) and the BLE can't be in effect cos there was no boom about five minutes earlier... In essence it's just a really artificial bit of emotion-tugging, albeit one that (unlike, say Father's Day) actually works without coming over as trying too hard - which is definitely good. So, the best episode of season 6 so far, but in a somewhat false manner...

yes, I did cry

I also thought of the BLE watching the episode but we can partially rationalise the difference between the two instaced where it was in play.

In Mawdryn, there was a big energy release yes and that's what finally allowed Mawdryn and his compadres to achieve peace and we should have seen that in this episode - i.e the boom.

Howerver after the two Brigs came into contact, the doctor made sure they were keep seperate in the TARDIS and quickly return each to his own time line.

Now with two Amy's who both want to stay with the Doctor it wouldn't be so easy.

Oh and to further relationalise things, the energy release might not have occurred becasue the hospital thingy had temporal energy, different time shit and the two Amy's were in the same place so things could have temporarily disappated.

But the real reason? Can you imagine two red heads in one Type 40 Time Capsule - the thing just won't be big enough

 

[auntiehill]

I thought that was quite good; I actually got a bit teary-eyed at the end.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Wonderful episode! Finally one worth watching this season.

It's been a ridiculously poor average, hasn't it.

Speaking as someone who's done old-age makeup a number of times, I was fascinated by the work on Karen. If only they'd thinned her hair a little bit or hinted at graying roots, but the prosthetic work was flawless. It was surprisingly supple and translucent ... was it silicone? Gelatin? Nicely done.

I couldn't put my finger on it, but you're right. Her hair should have been changed a bit.

Top of the list for Season Six!

Possibly top of the list for all new Who, I'd say.

 

[Hennessy Badger]

I liked it. I don't think its quite as amazing as many of you thought it to be - but I agree it is one of the better episodes of series 6. Like inflatabledalek mentioned, I didn't think for a second that older Amy would be sticking around (much like goopy 11th doctor, former-hand 10th doctor, etc...) so that made the episode less engaging for me.

I wish Doctor Who would pull a Farscape and really go balls-to-the-wall crazy with the concept of duplicating a lead character. If they continue to use similar themes over and over again, and insist on coloring in the lines every single time - this franchise is going to start to feel tired, quick.

 

[davejames]

I didn't say cuddly. I said I don't like the increasing theme that the Doctor is really, in essence, a bad guy or villain or some other kind of bastard. It's like when they start saying Batman creates more problems than he solves.

I don't get that sense from this Doctor at all. Yeah sometimes he's forced to do something dark or ugly, or has greater considerations in mind than the welfare of a couple human beings, but it's not like he enjoys doing it, or doesn't feel completely terrible about it afterward (as he clearly did at the end of this episode).

Hell, even with all he's done, this Doctor still seems to me leaps and bounds more thoughtful and empathetic than the 6th and 7th Doctors.

 

[davejames]

That is sort of true, but Brannon Braga's best work is a pretty good thing to emulate in my view. Besides which, part of what made the episode so good for me was the aesthetic as well; those robots and the whole place being a bit Portally, and then that garden. These are the kinds of things I want to see from Doctor Who. The story and the details being complex Is Braga-y, but it's Moffatty still further, only it managed to not have any "Fall in love with me via Vulcan mind meld" or "Remember the universe back into existence" type jumps. Nor the offsetting of potentially intriguing story-telling with "Ooohooo, the Tardis only makes that noise because you leave the brakes on" rubbish.

Agreed. I often thought during VOY that Braga had tons of great, high-concept ideas-- the problem was just the horrible, lackluster execution.

In any case, VOY was so freakin long ago (and so beneath nuWho) that I can't believe anyone would bother comparing the two shows.

 

[tomalak301]

I didn't find it amazing and the classic that many others in this thread found this episode, but I liked it for the most part. I thought Gillian did a great job portraying two different characters (Same person, different character) and the make up of old Amy was great.; Also, while there was loud music over the dialog again and I couldn't make out what the actual plan was, I got the theme and Amy and Rory really do make a fabulous couple.

I'm going to say Above Average for this one, and as for best of the season, I honestly don't know what the best of the season was. I did really like A Good Man Goes to War and the first two parter was very good, and I also liked Doctor's wife, even though I feel like I have the same reaction to that episode as I did with this episode, at least in comparison to others here. Might need to think about this one some more, and maybe even watch it again later on in the week.

 

[Bacl]

AV Club review is up. They gave it a B+, and as usual had some insightful things to say.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-girl-who-waited,61410/

 

[Kelso]

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

And Old Amy was extremely well realized in every respect.

I'm loving this season.

 

[Saga]

maybe later on we'll get an old Amy action figure.

 

[Venardhi]

The constant use of mindless, identical (or nearly) robots/aliens with repeated catchphrases is starting to annoy me a bit. All three episodes so far this half of the season have featured that particular trope.