Worst stereotype in Trek...

[CorporalCaptain]

To establish common usage, I cite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America:

America usually refers to either:
The Americas
The United States of America

So, at best half-right, SFRabid. While you correctly identified one half of common usage, not only did you fail to list the other half, but also you denied that it was even valid.

Saying any of:

• I'm a citizen of the United States
• I'm a citizen of the United States of America
• I'm a citizen of the U.S.A.
• I'm a U.S. citizen

or anything similar just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way as saying "I'm an American" does.

There isn't anything biased in this colloquialism. I don't see that our ignorance and our tendency to underappreciate other cultures has anything to do with the way we use the term "American".

As for my knowledge of geography, heck I've even been out of Kentucky. Far out of Kentucky. On numerous occasions. I've still got plenty to learn too.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Exactly. The term "America" is not some kind of claim to the entire Western hemisphere. It's an abbreviation of the official name of our country, that is hundreds of years old. We are one of the things named "America" that is part of "the Americas." Regardless of what some would like to say for political purposes, there is nothing insulting about this terminology.

 

[Pauln6]

but we don't seem to suffer that problem in the UK to the same degree.

Ahhh, so the next Bond will be female?

Bad example! Ian Flemiing was writing a long time ago and was very sexist. Almost every female character featured in a Bond movie is there as a potential shag for Bond, although if you watch the early movies, there were quite a few female agents on both sides, which wasn't bad for the sixties.

Moneypenny was the only woman to feature regularly in the movies and I think it's a shame that they didn't make a bit more of her. I think it was in Diamond's Are Forever where she (off camera) takes out a guy in the opening scenes. I like to think she beat the cr#p out of him to get his passport. I heard a rumour that Naomi Harris might be playing her in the next movie, which would be really cool. They made a lot more of M since Judi Dench took over (even if they molested my inner nerd by making her his boss both at the start and again towards the end of his career in Goldeneye). Maybe Moneypenny will finally get elevated a bit. I hope they keep her smart and capable.

EDIT: And while I think of it, the original Casino Royale had 3 female James Bonds didn't it? And I think Dalia Lavhi was the only James Bond to survive. So who knows where that will lead...

 

[voodoowoman]

Nurse Chapel, a woman, according to GR that had a PhD being in love with Spock for what, two decades? Evidently this passion evolved with NO input whatsoever from him. Real women don't act like this but Gene wanted to pander to the boys by believing that even smart women act like fools.

 

[SFRabid]

...
There isn't anything biased in this colloquialism. ...

That is the point. It is biased if you are outside of the US. The English, French, Germans, etc... are also Europeans. The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc... are all Asian. It is the same in Africa.

If the countries that joined together to create the Euro currency decided to move a step further and create the United Nations of Europe and call themselves Europeans, do the English cease to be Europeans?

People in the USA call themselves Americans and in the past they did so with a blind eye towards the rest of the countries in North America and South America. Manifest Destiny probably had a lot to do with that. While the term is recorded in US dictionaries attitudes are changing. I have friends from Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico and Canada. They all get irritadtd with the term "American" when used only to indicate someone from the US. Times are changing as we realize there are people outside of our borders, and so will terminology.

Hmmm. Were stereotypical Americans in Star Trek?

 

[antiquityscion]

Anyone from Canada to Brazil is an American.

(buzzer) Wrong. The bulk of my father's side of my family lives in Brazil, and they are definitely NOT Americans, they are Brazilians. This is the term people from that country use for themselves. I can't remember a Brazilian ever referring to themselves as a "Americano."

Although if they did, it would more likely be "Panela-americano."

Pan-american SFRabid, would seem to be much closer to what you're attempting to describe, than simply American.

I have heard this before, too. The only place Brazilians, Canadians, or anyone else living outside of the US call themselves "American" is in higher education. It is politically correct speak for people who do not believe in borders. Try calling someone from Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Panama, or anywhere else but the US an American in real life, and you will either be laughed at, or punched out.

T'Girl is correct, the proper term would be Pan-American. Or, if someone wants to refer to themselves by continent of origin (IE like Asian, African, or European), it would either be North American or South American.

 

[Pauln6]

Nurse Chapel, a woman, according to GR that had a PhD being in love with Spock for what, two decades? Evidently this passion evolved with NO input whatsoever from him. Real women don't act like this but Gene wanted to pander to the boys by believing that even smart women act like fools.

I always felt that Chapel should have been placed in charge of Life Sciences not become a junior doctor where she had to play second fiddle to McCoy. To qualify as a doctor in TMP (2.5 years after TOS) she should have been a trainee doctor and not a nurse all throughout TOS. At least her biologist qualification was established from the start.

If they felt obliged to call her 'Nurse Chapel' in the new movie I would have preferred it if McCoy had drafted her in from the science department during the crisis.

Chapel had a crush on Spock during years 2-5 of the original 5-year mission. There is no evidence that she was still pining for him in TMP. She smiles at him when he comes on board but so does everybody else. I like to think she moved on and had a family, giving us a reason for her to remain on Earth in the TWoK era.

 

[SFRabid]

[... Try calling someone from Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Panama, or anywhere else but the US an American in real life, and you will either be laughed at, or punched out.

....

The point I am trying to make is ... tell them that you are an American from America and see how they react.

I guess I have derailed this topic enough. Maybe I'll get on Skype and talk to some of my Pan-Ansian friends.

 

[antiquityscion]

The point I am trying to make is ... tell them that you are an American from America and see how they react.

The reaction would be the same as if someone from Brazil, Argentina, or what have you, went to a European,African, or Asian country (or told their fellow citizens of their native country for that matter) and called themselves "American." They would get a look, that would go something like this....

 

[Anwar]

Ironic thing about Fleming was that compared to his contemporaries, his work was STILL more progressive than other literature at the time concerning women even if it's clearly sexist as all to us.

 

[SFRabid]

The point I am trying to make is ... tell them that you are an American from America and see how they react.

The reaction would be the same as if someone from Brazil, Argentina, or what have you, went to a European,African, or Asian country (or told their fellow citizens of their native country for that matter) and called themselves "American." They would get a look, that would go something like this....

And that person from Europe, Asia or Africa would be confused because the Brazilian or Agrentinean making the statement about being American is not white an is not limited to the English language?

 

[antiquityscion]

The point I am trying to make is ... tell them that you are an American from America and see how they react.

The reaction would be the same as if someone from Brazil, Argentina, or what have you, went to a European,African, or Asian country (or told their fellow citizens of their native country for that matter) and called themselves "American." They would get a look, that would go something like this....

And that person from Europe, Asia or Africa would be confused because the Brazilian or Agrentinean making the statement about being American is not white an is not limited to the English language?

Absolutely, because that doesn't fit their stereotype of American. Over 90% of Americans speak English, and around 70% are white.

But you are glossing over the larger point: people from other countries do not refer to themselves as "American." They refer to themselves based on their nation of origin, or their indigenous\First Nations ethnic heritage(IE some in Argentina don't call themselves Argentinian or even Latino, because they neither of Latino ethnicity or even speak Spanish, but instead call themselves Mapuche).

You are "technically correct" in that all people who are born and reside in North or South America can be called "American," albeit more properly "Pan-American," North American, or South American. But some nations don't like the US very much and would even be offended to be called American. The concept that people from Canada to Brazil call themselves American is not reality, as well. It is a concept that only exists almost exclusively in a higher education, or politically correct speak. It is not common practice.

 

[SFRabid]

The reaction would be the same as if someone from Brazil, Argentina, or what have you, went to a European,African, or Asian country (or told their fellow citizens of their native country for that matter) and called themselves "American." They would get a look, that would go something like this....

And that person from Europe, Asia or Africa would be confused because the Brazilian or Agrentinean making the statement about being American is not white an is not limited to the English language?

Absolutely, because that doesn't fit their stereotype of American. Over 90% of Americans speak English, and around 70% are white.

But you are glossing over the larger point: people from other countries do not refer to themselves as "American." They refer to themselves based on their nation of origin, or their indigenous\First Nations ethnic heritage(IE some in Argentina don't call themselves Argentinian or even Latino, because they neither of Latino ethnicity or even speak Spanish, but instead call themselves Mapuche).

You are "technically correct" in that all people who are born and reside in North or South America can be called "American," albeit more properly "Pan-American," North American, or South American. But some nations don't like the US very much and would even be offended to be called American. The concept that people from Canada to Brazil call themselves American is not reality, as well. It is a concept that only exists almost exclusively in a higher education, or politically correct speak. It is not common practice.

And you are missing my point. I'm not saying that people from other countries in America call themselves American, I'm saying that there is a growing resentment in these countries that people in the United States call themselves American as if America is exclusive to the United States. Anywhere else in the world a name based on a continent or land mass is used to denote everyone on that continent or land mass. In the Americas, people in the United States have claimed that title for themselves exclusively.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Well, it's not like a bunch of Americans got together and voted on it. We didn't "claim" the title of American - it just happened on its own. The use of "American" to exclusively describe people in the USA was a normal process of language drift. It wasn't a malicious move by USA citizens or anything like that. It's a typical language cliché - been done for so long that it really can't/won't be undone.

Even if it might be technically possible to call someone from Mexico, Canada, etc. an American, in practice it just isn't done. To put it another way: Technically, Charlize Theron is an African-American. (because she is a native of South Africa but is now a citizen of the US)

 

[T'Girl]

Manifest Destiny probably had a lot to do with that

When there still was a Manifest Destiny philosophy in America (eighteenth century), the majority of the people in America identified with their state of origin, not their country.

 

[SFRabid]

Manifest Destiny was bearly a thought in the 18th century. When Vermont, Kentucky and Tennessee joined the union it was really just a division of existing states. (Those are the only states added in the 1700's.) The real idea of Manifest Destiny exploded in the 19th century (1800's in case you are confused) when most other states were added in a push to reach the Atlantic.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

...
There isn't anything biased in this colloquialism. ...

That is the point. It is biased if you are outside of the US. The English, French, Germans, etc... are also Europeans. The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc... are all Asian. It is the same in Africa.

And how many of those nations have names that can be abbreviated to "Asia," "Africa," and so on?

What about Australia? Should they have to change their name because they named the nation and the continent the same thing, even though the Aboriginals still live there?

Oh, and as an FYI, Manifest Destiny actually became a driving force in American politics AFTER the nation was named.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny

We can have a whole different thread about what was wrong with that, but the name of this country is NOT related.

The name of the nation came about because the colonies used to operate almost like autonomous little countries, so calling ourselves the United States of America actually did have the same mindset as naming the European Union. (Which, oh, by the way, does not include all nations in Europe...is that somehow being mean to the excluded nations? :crickets: )

But put simply, I am not going to tell other people how to speak their languages because it's not my business, and in return, kindly do not tell us how to speak our language, because it's not their business. This should not be an issue; frankly, it just sounds like people trying to pick a fight about something that is not important. "America"/"Americas"...that "s" does not make a difference one way or the other. One America with lots of countries, or lots of countries and landmasses, each carrying the name America for different reasons (USA, North America, Central America, South America)...totally not important.

 

[7ofJackson]

And you are missing my point. I'm not saying that people from other countries in America call themselves American, I'm saying that there is a growing resentment in these countries that people in the United States call themselves American as if America is exclusive to the United States. Anywhere else in the world a name based on a continent or land mass is used to denote everyone on that continent or land mass. In the Americas, people in the United States have claimed that title for themselves exclusively.

Don't waste your breath. Not everyone is willing to look at the other side. They are correct in some respect. Declaring "I'm from America" while visiting any other country in North America or South America does result in that person knowing exactly where they are from. To them, no one else would be so arrogant as to use that title.

 

[7ofJackson]

I like to tell myself that Turnabout Intruder is a statement about equality for women instead of a bad typecast of women. The argument that women cannot be captains barely indicated the reason was women not having the capabilities of captain. The bigger message is what happens when you are denied opportunity.

 

[T'Girl]

The real idea of Manifest Destiny exploded in the 19th century

Yes, the eighteen hundreds, not the eighteenth century, my bad. Specifically the middle of that century, for only about fifteen years.

Anywhere else in the world a name based on a continent or land mass is used to denote everyone on that continent or land mass.

Now you're just making stuff up. One of my best friend's family is from India. This thread came up, and for your information Indians do not consider themselves, nor their home country, "Asian."

The subcontinent, don't you know.

And from my observations, Arabs from western Asia, are not "Asian." and Arabs from northern Africa, are not "African." They're Arabs.

Unless it is your contention that you know more, than these people do about themselves?

If the countries that joined together to create the Euro currency decided to move a step further and create the United Nations of Europe and call themselves Europeans, do the English cease to be Europeans?

Do the Brits consider themselves European now?

And if Germany drops the Euro in favor of a re-established Deutschmark, and Greece drops the Euro in favor of a it's own new currency ... would both cease to be "European" as a result.

To them, no one else would be so arrogant as to use that title.

There are over 3,600 girls and women in the US possessing the first name of "America." 7 of Jackson, do you also mysteriously consider all of them to be "arrogant?" You know, when they introduce themselves?