Still, the first African/Jamaican lesbian female Captain made her appearance 20 years into franchise history. I don't view that as 'pretty good' for a show that claims to be as progressive as Star Trek does.
Worst stereotype in Trek...
- Thread starter Yevetha
- Start date
- Status
Still, the first African/Jamaican lesbian female Captain made her appearance 20 years into franchise history. I don't view that as 'pretty good' for a show that claims to be as progressive as Star Trek does.
I don't know if the Ferengi would have approved of Fajo's methods. Fajo was a thief, and the Ferengi don't flat-out steal, they negotiate. They *buy*.
Trek only does well on feminism if you compare it to television in general. Considering that it is meant to be a sci fi franchise where men and women are equal it fares really badly, with a consistent 2:1 ratio running right through every version of the show.
By the time of Voyager at least women were being considered for a wider variety of roles without making it an issue (like they did with Tasha) but in terms of the crew dynamic, Voyager's crew was still top heavy with men (Kes, Seven, and Neelix being outside the chain of command although I suppose you could consider them to hold the rank of crewman).
They had an opportunity to show that 21st century Star Trek had finally seen the light but regretably the new movie seems to have slipped back to about a 3:1 ratio. This was partly because they wanted to showcase the characters who had featured more prominently in the recent TOS movies, leaving out 2 of the 3 recurring women from the show but also because, unless a supporting character needed to be female (e.g. mothers or girlfriends) they weren't. I think we had a doctor (who was longside a male doctor as well, a transporter operator (who was bumped by Chekov) and a senior bridge crewman on the Kelvin (who was surrounded by about 5 guys, several of whom featured more prominently). There was a 2:1 ratio on the Vulcan science council and a similar ratio for the Starfleet admirals (and the women there were spread towards the periphery so they didn't feature in the close shots).
While the women that do get featured prominently tend these days to be less stereotypical, it is true to say that there is a lot of wider subconscious sexual stereotyping going on in the franchise.
A thought just occurred. I wonder if JJ Abrams and Paramount deliberately decreased female roles in ST Eleven to increase overseas ticket sales. Especially in the Asian markets?
In terms of speaking roles, Uhura, the two moms and Gaila had to be female.
The senior officer in the simulator was male, the majority of the officers on the hearing board were male. Captain Robau could have been cast female, Captain Pike could have been re-imagined female, but they weren't. The head speaker of the Vulcan elders that Spock stood before was male. Neither Nero, nor his second in command were cast female.
Authority figures.
What made Trek XI even worse from a gender perspective--and this as someone who did not think the movie was that bad--was the really degrading Spock-Uhura relationship (which degraded both characters).
I thought the Spock/Uhura romance was pointless. It served no particular storyline purpose. I imagine it was done to give the film a romantic element so it would attract more attention from demographics who like romance in movies.
It's not even appropriate to emphasise a interracial couple in this day and age since interracial couples are very common and nobody really bats an eye. Although Spock and Uhura are more appropriately "interterrestrial" as a couple!
It's not even appropriate to emphasise a interracial couple in this day and age since interracial couples are very common and nobody really bats an eye. Although Spock and Uhura are more appropriately "interterrestrial" as a couple!
What was inappropriate had nothing to do with extraneous factors like race; what was inappropriate was that it was an abuse of power on Spock's part, given that Uhura was his student.
That is true, but it's more a case of personal ethics. There is nothing that prevents a University lecturer from dating a student. Granted, your colleagues may frown upon it and you might attract attention from other students and accusations of favouritism. But there isn't really anything wrong with it as such.
It's not as if Spock was in a position of trust and Uhura was vulnerable. It would appear that she pursued him and he was right to not promote favouritism on her part (by not assigning her to Enterprise, despite the fact she was the most qualified).
Even the way how 'Uhura' got on the Enterprise, was unbelievable. I think assignments in Starfleet shouldn't work something like: 'I did not want you to be on Enterprise, but if you do not want to be on Farragut, I cross out your name on Farragut list of crewmen and write you on the Enterprise's one, okay?' And Spock, with his rank, should not have authority to assign starfleet personel, where he wants.
And the turbolift scene itself was very awkward and inappropriate. Spock's planet just has been blown out, his mother is dead etc. If I was on his place, smooching in elevator would be one of THE LAST things I would like to do at the moment. When he stepped into turbolift, he surely meant LEAVE ME ALONE by it. I think if Nimoy's Spock was there instead, he would throw her out of the cabin until the door closes, find some empty briefing room, cry his heart out or just sit there in shock, destroy all the furniture and then return to bridge, like nothing happened.
And the turbolift scene itself was very awkward and inappropriate. Spock's planet just has been blown out, his mother is dead etc. If I was on his place, smooching in elevator would be one of THE LAST things I would like to do at the moment. When he stepped into turbolift, he surely meant LEAVE ME ALONE by it. I think if Nimoy's Spock was there instead, he would throw her out of the cabin until the door closes, find some empty briefing room, cry his heart out or just sit there in shock, destroy all the furniture and then return to bridge, like nothing happened.
Last edited:
Ziriath, that's a much better-worded response to Captain M's objection than was coming to my mind. I think that will suffice as my own answer, too. 
A thought just occurred. I wonder if JJ Abrams and Paramount deliberately decreased female roles in ST Eleven to increase overseas ticket sales. Especially in the Asian markets?
In terms of speaking roles, Uhura, the two moms and Gaila had to be female.
The senior officer in the simulator was male, the majority of the officers on the hearing board were male. Captain Robau could have been cast female, Captain Pike could have been re-imagined female, but they weren't. The head speaker of the Vulcan elders that Spock stood before was male. Neither Nero, nor his second in command were cast female.
Authority figures.
No I genuinely think that the boys that write and produce this stuff have a default character setting of male and they actually have to think about casting a woman in a role that doesn't scream female at them. It might be a US/Canadian culture thing but we don't seem to suffer that problem in the UK to the same degree.
I'm fairly sure that Chapel and Rand (who were not exactly authority figures) were left out just because they did not feature prominently in the TOS movies, they had enough characters to work in, and they couldn't see the point of signing up more actors to expensive contracts if all they would get were cameos. I am disappointed that T'Pau and Number One were not featured in some capacity because they would have fitted into the plot organically and given us two established characters who were also decent authority figures.
Or the "stereotypical pairing" as I would call it. If two characters are sexy, (and near each other often) then they are going to be paired together, no matter how far apart their personalities or characters are.
Chakotay and Seven, Worf and Troi, Odo and Kira, Trip and T'pol.
T'pol is a cold, cold sexy Vulcan woman. So sooner or later she is going to be naked in front of Trip,.
But Spock is really different.
If Spock being a stoic, logical Vulcan, why is he even in a passionate relationship with Uhura?
What makes him stand out as a Vulcan in the first place?
I think this is what happens when outside writers try to write into an established genre.
Chakotay and Seven, Worf and Troi, Odo and Kira, Trip and T'pol.
T'pol is a cold, cold sexy Vulcan woman. So sooner or later she is going to be naked in front of Trip,
.But Spock is really different.
If Spock being a stoic, logical Vulcan, why is he even in a passionate relationship with Uhura?
What makes him stand out as a Vulcan in the first place?
I think this is what happens when outside writers try to write into an established genre.
Last edited:
All of those pairings except perhaps Trip and T'Pol were just horriblly ill judged. I rather liked the way that Trip ceased to be an annoying, arrogant, loud-mouthed pig and started to show a more vulnerable side once he started to pine for T'Pol. And T'Pol was actually a very brittle, nuanced character. It was nice to see her struggle with 'unpleasant' emotions.
I have no strong objection to NuSpock and NuUhura - certain elements were handled well and it gives the writers fertile ground for romantic sub-plots but I agree that Spock would not have remained her tutor in those circumstances. He's far too ethical.
I have no strong objection to NuSpock and NuUhura - certain elements were handled well and it gives the writers fertile ground for romantic sub-plots but I agree that Spock would not have remained her tutor in those circumstances. He's far too ethical.
Hmmm. Isn't Jamaca part of American, as is the United states, Cuba, Mexico, etc...
In English, anyway, there's a difference between "America" (singular) and "the Americas" (plural).
In Spanish that distinction does not exist, and "América" can refer to everything in North and South America, which I have seen result in some serious ruffled feathers and anti-American rhetoric over what is simply a language difference--when all that's happening is that for us, pluralizing the word changes the meaning.
In Spanish that distinction does not exist, and "América" can refer to everything in North and South America, which I have seen result in some serious ruffled feathers and anti-American rhetoric over what is simply a language difference--when all that's happening is that for us, pluralizing the word changes the meaning.
I never associated Ferengi with Jewish stereotypes. Global corporations driven by stock values are a much closer fit. I always thought Star Trek was posing the question "What happens if corporations continue to grow in power to a point that they change our core values?"
In American English:
America - A land mass in the western hemisphere.
North America or South America - A cotenant in the western hemisphere.
United States of America (USA) - A country in the cotenant of North America.
While abbreviations of US or America are considered adequate by some these abbreviations loose definition outside of the USA. Many countries are made up of a union of states or provinces. Many countries are located in America, both North and South. As the internet removes barriers of distance and borders the citizens of the USA are finding that vague abbreviations are inadequate. Anyone from Canada to Brazil is an American. Some people in the US have a hard time accepting that. Of course, this is the country that is quick to apply the "world" tag to many championships exclusive to the USA.
America - A land mass in the western hemisphere.
North America or South America - A cotenant in the western hemisphere.
United States of America (USA) - A country in the cotenant of North America.
While abbreviations of US or America are considered adequate by some these abbreviations loose definition outside of the USA. Many countries are made up of a union of states or provinces. Many countries are located in America, both North and South. As the internet removes barriers of distance and borders the citizens of the USA are finding that vague abbreviations are inadequate. Anyone from Canada to Brazil is an American. Some people in the US have a hard time accepting that. Of course, this is the country that is quick to apply the "world" tag to many championships exclusive to the USA.
Ahhh, so the next Bond will be female?
Well nu-Uhura is a physical match for Droxine, so we know she is Spock's "type."
(buzzer) Wrong. The bulk of my father's side of my family lives in Brazil, and they are definitely NOT Americans, they are Brazilians. This is the term people from that country use for themselves. I can't remember a Brazilian ever referring to themselves as a "Americano."
Although if they did, it would more likely be "Panela-americano."
Pan-american SFRabid, would seem to be much closer to what you're attempting to describe, than simply American.
Why would they?
And where are you getting these ideas?
A former part of the British commonwealth, Jamaca has been an independent nation since 1962.
I referred to the actress as "African-Jamaican" because she was of African ancestry. And while a American citizen, her heart was Jamaican. She was born, live her first thirty years and was eventually buried in Jamaica.
I agree that there's nothing inherently wrong with a teacher/student relationship, as long as it occurs AFTER they are no longer teacher and student.
The problem with the Spock/Uhura relationship is two-fold. 1.) By having said relationship while Uhura was still his student, it does make Spock seem like he's taking advantage of someone he has authority over. 2.) It also makes Uhura look bad because she comes across as willing to sleep her way to the top.
As Nerys said, it degrades both characters.
- Status
Similar threads
