Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

I questioned Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne but it turned out great. I do understand that he was trying to capture lightning in a bottle twice...but I don't think it would have worked.

I think we're talking about this because we have to wait 2 years for this new movie and we have to talk about something!

 

His Bruce Wayne was horrible. His Batman was pretty good.

 

The interesting thing about his Bruce Wayne is that we rarely saw him out in public. When we did, he acted either oddly eccentric (during the charity fundraiser in Batman) or was all business (during his meeting with Shreck in Batman Returns). The films never had much of a chance to play up the rich playboy the way Nolan's films have.

 

No, I disagree. We have this pic of a prop that never even made it into production and who knows how it would have looked in the final film. Really, way too much has been made of this freaking suit. Forget it already.

 

I liked Michael Keaton's aloof portrayal of Bruce Wayne. I think that he was trying to portray Bruce as being distracted, because in his mind he was always thinking about Batman stuff. Analytical thinking and whatnot.

 

Which is why it was horrible. "Bruce Wayne" is not an eccentric or all business. Thats like portraying "Clark Kent" as a two fisted reporter with an ashtray full of stubbed out cigarettes and a half empty bottle of scotch in his desk drawer.

 

Maybe eccentric was the wrong term. Admiral Young gave the description of aloof, which works better in what I was thinking. And how come Bruce can't be all business in a business meeting? It made sense in context in that scene for him to be like that.

Anyway, that's all moot. The point I was trying to make was that we never really saw Bruce Wayne in opportunities when he could act like "Bruce Wayne".

And, your description of Clark...that would be awesome.

 

Bruce isn't stupid in his public facade. That is the mistake people make when dealing with him, because they only see the carefree playboy image he chooses to show them, but occasionally he will be himself in his persona and interact, etc. Such as the board meeting at Schrek's. Or for instance like in "Batman Begins" he'll use humour to play around with his non-nonchalant attitude, like when he addresses Richard Earle.

Then there are softer moment's like when he is with Vicky or Selina. You see him want to let loose and be himself, but he can't. It is a constant struggle to maintain that balance of personas just as it is for Clark Kent.

 

Keaton's "Bruce Wayne" was....awkward. Like Brocoli said we never got a grasp on what kind of Bruce Wayne Keaton or Burton wanted to convey.



People probably thought he was a weirdo with the armor statues and dressing in a suit and tie to a masquerade ball.

At the meeting with Shrek he was all business

Selina made him slip up

Bruce Wayne: You know what, I mistook me for somebody else.

Bruce Wayne: I'm tempted.
Selina Kyle: I'm working.
Bruce Wayne: [Elevator doors close] I'm leaving!

I remember an early complaint about Bale's Batman. He talked too much!



Whereas Keaton's Batman was silent

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2N4WNZipDA[/YT]


[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYLdVTKhdUo[/YT]

 

One thing that bugged me with Bale's Bruce Wayne is that I felt he was a little too over the top at times in his goofiness. This is mostly reflected in Batman Begins. TDK downplays this a bit to a more "realistic" level by making him more aloof than outright goofy.

 

^ I've always liked to point out that Bale's Batman voice is just a symptom of Bruce not having the opportunity to perfect his voice yet. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Christian fully intended his growl to be the way it is. It is annoying, don't get me wrong, but i just like to think of it that way. There is indeed a change in the voices between movie. I have wondered if we will see a more "perfected" growl in "The Dark Knight Rises" or if they'll just go with what they had in "The Dark Knight".

 

Didn't they digitally mess with Bale's voice to get that gravely growl?

 

That was part of his character arc in that movie, though. At the end, he more or less finds his Bruce Wayne persona and takes over control of Wayne Industries.

I have a question about the voice. Was this "Batman Voice" already written into the comics or did comic writers insert the concept following the movie?

 

I loved Keaton's Bruce Wayne. It was basically just Keaton being Keaton, but still... it was a lot of fun to watch.

Plus, whether it was the press conference scene (where he got shot in the arm) or the scene between Bruce and The Joker in Vickie's apartment, you could really sense him always thinking and analyzing the situation as Batman, even when he didn't have the suit on. I thought that was really cool and fascinating to watch.

 

The thing is, Batman Begins took an hour to explain why Bruce became Batman. It was a good hour, sure but in Burton's film the reason he was Batman was because he was every bit as insane as the Joker but he channelled it differently

 

Which is one of many reasons why I like Batman Begins better.

 

Batman pretty clearly is deranged; I thought that was part of his appeal.

 

Bruce has been victimized. His psychological response to that, from his position of privilege, is that he sees it as both his duty and destiny to clean up Gotham. But he does that according to rules which ensure that he remains in truth a good guy, even if society at large perceives him as a vigilante or even a villain. He plays rough because the criminals he is fighting are rough, but he keeps it on the good side and doesn't kill. That's his character when he is portrayed as a super-hero.

Once you allow him to go around recklessly killing bad guys, as in the Burton films, he becomes some sort of antihero. That might be interesting, but that's something else besides Batman, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Well, a guy who dresses up like a bat clearly has issues.