I think what The Mirrorball Man was pointing out is what I recently had read in a review of the film, is that the things in the movie that people try to point out or question as plot holes or flaws is exactly what you're supposed to be thinking are flaws or plot holes and thus the intended Sucker Punch of the film.
There were several points, and they were pretty obvious.There was a point?
That's not what I meant, actually. I was just trying to say that wondering why this character in this particular situation would dream of this particular fantasy world is the point of the movie, and leads to understanding its themes and its purpose. I won't claim that it's particularly subtle or original, but it's there.
As far as I'm concerned, the rabid hunt for plot holes that some people seem to enjoy so much has very little to do with actual movie criticism, and I find it completely lacking in interest.
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter, does it?Well I'm guessing the point is that Snyder thinks girls in brothels are sexier than girls in sanitoriums but I'm also guessing that isn't what I'm supposed to think
Are you reacting to something I said?
There is a group of people from my church that go to see movies together. We saw this one. Most of the group did not like it. I loved it and when I explained how I saw it to the one guy he began to see the movie differently.
To me the whole film was about escape but escape from something deeper then the asylum. She was trying to escape the pain of the death of her sister. The real world death of her sister was played out later in the movie when the youger sister of Sweet Pea was killed and she died because of Babydoll when the music stopped. Everything that happened in the brothel was related to events in the real world of the asylum. The High Roller was the doctor that was coming to do the lobotomy. Babydoll created this fantasy as a path for the escape from the pain. That is why the doctor was shaken when he saw the look in her eyes before he did the lobotomy. She wanted it done. She got her escape.
The other thing is that the movie was really Rocket's story. She narrates the opening and closing of the film and Babydoll is the person that she was referring to as the one who helps us. It would seem that Babydoll's only purpose in life was to help Rocket. But what was Rocket's entire story and was it should it have been told?
To me the whole film was about escape but escape from something deeper then the asylum. She was trying to escape the pain of the death of her sister. The real world death of her sister was played out later in the movie when the youger sister of Sweet Pea was killed and she died because of Babydoll when the music stopped. Everything that happened in the brothel was related to events in the real world of the asylum. The High Roller was the doctor that was coming to do the lobotomy. Babydoll created this fantasy as a path for the escape from the pain. That is why the doctor was shaken when he saw the look in her eyes before he did the lobotomy. She wanted it done. She got her escape.
The other thing is that the movie was really Rocket's story. She narrates the opening and closing of the film and Babydoll is the person that she was referring to as the one who helps us. It would seem that Babydoll's only purpose in life was to help Rocket. But what was Rocket's entire story and was it should it have been told?
Rocket died! Unless I'm mixing them all up, I thought she was Sweet Pea's sister?
I get that events in the brothel mirrored the asylum, I just failed to see how this was any kind of escape. She was substituting one kind of horror for another and I just don't think this would be what a young teenage girl in the 50s would imagine in order to escape from reality (and actually neither are zombie Germans and giant samurai death robots now we're on the subject) Something like the fantastical elements in Peter Jackson's wonderful Heavenly Creatures would be more likely.
I get that events in the brothel mirrored the asylum, I just failed to see how this was any kind of escape. She was substituting one kind of horror for another and I just don't think this would be what a young teenage girl in the 50s would imagine in order to escape from reality (and actually neither are zombie Germans and giant samurai death robots now we're on the subject) Something like the fantastical elements in Peter Jackson's wonderful Heavenly Creatures would be more likely.
That's a good point, one which, to be fair, I believe the filmmakers are actually trying to make, even though we may find the execution clumsy.
I don't think "likely" entered anyone's mind when they decided to incorporate those elements. I'm pretty sure that the writer never thought "hmmm... I really want to write a story about the most plausible forms of escapism for emotionally disturbed teenage girls in the 1950's", not any more than Shakespeare was trying to depict actual Athenian folklore in "A Midsummer's Night Dream".
Well I feel bad for Snyder. 300 was bad but that was because of Frank Miller. Watchmen was dull but that's because the comic was impossible to film. I was impressed that Snyder had the guts to do something original. No one has bee able to successfully merge Japanese anime with western cinema (especially French New Wave movement) but Sucker Punch was the closest.
I give high marks for trying (and putting Emily Browning in sexy school girl uniform)
I give high marks for trying (and putting Emily Browning in sexy school girl uniform)
Yeah I think that probably added to some of the disconnect I was feeling with the movie. It's hard to ever take it seriously as Baby Doll's story, because everything she imagines feels like a concoction of some modern day, scifi-obsessed teenage boy.
So instead of a real character, she just becomes a symbol or metaphor for some message Snyder is trying to get across, and it's kind of hard to empathize much with that.
That all sounds cool and interesting, and I was perfectly fine with the basic structure of the film.
But interesting ideas can only do so much. You still need to have compelling characters and an engaging story to make you care about what you're watching, and I just don't feel this movie had either of those.
It was certainly awesome to LOOK at, but I felt like I was watching from a distance the entire time.
O'dib are you trying to make some kind of comments other than just randomingly insulting the movie? We get you didn't like it.
I really don't think Snyder cared much about the negative views the movie got, in fact I got the sense that was something he was anticipating due to the Sucker Punch. As I've stated earlier in the thread, the film does explain it's self and have a lot of nice messages, people seem to be so focused on the brothel and what Babydoll is projecting though that they miss them. We're being misled and misdirected in the entire movie which is part of the brilliance in my opinion. It isn't a great movie but I enjoyed it and have seen it multiple times and understand what is going on.
Also it's not Babydoll's story at all...it's Sweat Peas. Babydoll is the angel that the narration is talking about the end of the movie.
I really don't think Snyder cared much about the negative views the movie got, in fact I got the sense that was something he was anticipating due to the Sucker Punch. As I've stated earlier in the thread, the film does explain it's self and have a lot of nice messages, people seem to be so focused on the brothel and what Babydoll is projecting though that they miss them. We're being misled and misdirected in the entire movie which is part of the brilliance in my opinion. It isn't a great movie but I enjoyed it and have seen it multiple times and understand what is going on.
Also it's not Babydoll's story at all...it's Sweat Peas. Babydoll is the angel that the narration is talking about the end of the movie.
Well that's revealed at the end, but the movie still presents Babydoll as the central character through most of the movie, who we're following around pretty much the entire time (even when other characters aren't even around).
And in any case, I didn't find Sweat Pea any more interesting or compelling. She was just a cipher like everyone else.
^ That too is part of the Sucker Punch. The whole entire movie is one big sucker punch. I'm not sure people are grasping that concept. Bad movie or not aside.
I was just talking to some friends about the movie and our interpretation of the film and what things mean. Lots of disagreements, but that's normal. For some of the points brought up, well, I never thought about it that way before.
One said that the brothel wasn't a fantasy of Babydolls, but more of delusional. Her reality is just warped, similar to people can tell reality from fiction. Before she she loses it, her stepdad tries to rape her little sister. That thought was stuck in her head. It's not something she wanted, it just happened that way. Her fantasy is being a badass warrior that can protect the people she care for.
I told them about the sexy dance not being a dance at all. It's just Babydoll acting out those action sequences. Near the beginning of the movie, Babydoll saw that violence and fights are good distractions. To her, it's sort of a dance or perfomance. The closest "dance" we see is at the end, she kicked a guy in the crotch.
Also brought to my attention were how guns portrayed. In the real world, Babydoll used it once to defend a loved one. It's dangerous and end up killing the person she wanted to protect. In the delusion world, it's a means to murder people. In the fantasy world it's a tool of enpowerment. In the real world, Babydoll don't know how to use guns, but in the fantasy world she's an expert markman. Kind of like a videogame.
One said that the brothel wasn't a fantasy of Babydolls, but more of delusional. Her reality is just warped, similar to people can tell reality from fiction. Before she she loses it, her stepdad tries to rape her little sister. That thought was stuck in her head. It's not something she wanted, it just happened that way. Her fantasy is being a badass warrior that can protect the people she care for.
I told them about the sexy dance not being a dance at all. It's just Babydoll acting out those action sequences. Near the beginning of the movie, Babydoll saw that violence and fights are good distractions. To her, it's sort of a dance or perfomance. The closest "dance" we see is at the end, she kicked a guy in the crotch.
Also brought to my attention were how guns portrayed. In the real world, Babydoll used it once to defend a loved one. It's dangerous and end up killing the person she wanted to protect. In the delusion world, it's a means to murder people. In the fantasy world it's a tool of enpowerment. In the real world, Babydoll don't know how to use guns, but in the fantasy world she's an expert markman. Kind of like a videogame.
^ Very interesting thoughts. Yeah I too kind of think that Babydoll wasn't dancing out but rather acting out the fantasy sequences we saw and that is why it was so mesmerizing for the people in the brothel who were watching her.