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America's Attack on the Lemonade Stand

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doubleohfive

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"The lemonade stand is often a child's first business venture," says Mary Ann Hupp, 41, a creative director at a marketing agency and one of the motherly promoters of the event. "We hope this project is an example for our children that they should be proactive and take initiative in life."

Link.

In the words of Bob "Bulldog" Briscoe, "THIS SUCKS! THIS IS TOTAL B.S.!"

I fondly remember operating a lemonade stand as a kid, then helping my siblings do same in the summer months in Virginia. Whilst driving down the street here in Long Beach last week, I saw some kids running one of their own and happily sampled their refreshing brew.

Did you ever run a lemonade stand? Do you think it's kind of dumb for law enforcement to be shutting them down?
 
Wow, i just bought some lemonade from two girls across the street 2 days ago...the ever growing government and its bully cops need to go to hell.
 
All right, first let me chime in with an outraged "this is bullshit."

That said, look more closely at the data:

Just this year, The Associated Press reports: In July, police shut down a lemonade-making operation in Midway, Ga., because law enforcement officials were not sure how the lemonade was being made. In April, a 13-year-old lemonade purveyor was robbed of $130 by dastardly customers in Warner-Robins, Ga., and, in July, kids in Strongsville, Ohio, said a handful of teenagers, including two boys sporting skinny jeans and blue hoodies, stole at least $13.50 from their lemonade stand.

During the U.S. Open in June, officials in Montgomery County in Maryland fined kids $500 for running a fancy lemonade stand — that sold bottled lemonade and other drinks — near the golf tournament. Proceeds, the children said, were going to charity. County officials finally agreed to waive the fine and allow the kids to operate without a permit if they would move the 10-by-10-foot tent down the road a piece.

There are two examples of law enforcement action there, and in the second case the whole thing was resolved by moving the location of the stand a little bit. Without knowing the details of where it was located to begin with and how far it was moved, it's hard to pronounce this unreasonable; the kids stayed in business. The initial fine was an unfair over-reaction but it appears that this was recognized and corrected pretty quickly.

The Midway, Georgia case is more egregious - the kids lacked a business permit (not because the cops "didn't know how the lemonade was being made"). This is indeed ridiculous.

That's one data point - hardly enough to call it a trend, but then I don't need to conjure up an NPR article by deadline.

The other examples are robberies - yeah, I had to contend with that when I sold snow cones on the sidewalk in front of my house in 1963; we called the kids who did that "bullies." Fortunately we knew where they lived; unfortunately their parents were assholes. Bad people are bad, 'mkay?

America's "Attack On Lemonade Stands?" Really?

A bit more about the little stand in Montgomery County:

UPDATE: Montgomery County officials have allowed the children to reopen their lemonade stand, by relocating it about 100-feet away from the intersection where it was set up Thursday.

The county permits director Jennifer Harris says the neighborhood children, who are raising money to fight pediatric cancer, needed to move their stand from the "main strip," to a more private, safer area. The $500 fine was also waived.

The children include members of 2 Washington power families, the Marriotts (hotels) and the Augustines (Lockheed-Martin).

"This is not big bad bureaucracy coming down on little kids," Hughes explained. She said the inspector was enforcing regulations designed to address concerns about traffic, safety and other non permitted vendors flooding into the area.

Hughes noted the kid's lemonade operation was serving bottled drinks out of 4 large coolers under a 10X10 tent. "This is not what you would see when you picture a typical lemonade stand," she said.
 
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Hughes noted the kid's lemonade operation was serving bottled drinks out of 4 large coolers under a 10X10 tent. "This is not what you would see when you picture a typical lemonade stand," she said.

Yeah, most people think of Lucy's ramshackle psychiatrist booth from Peanuts, but when you've got an operation like this, you're getting into real money, and you're getting into real liability issues. I'm torn between being mad at "big government", but I'm also aware of the dangers of food poisoning, food allergies, traffic issues, and if you want to go into tinfoil hat territory: regular companies astroturfing these types of stands to get away from legitimate business permits/taxes, etc.
 
Hughes noted the kid's lemonade operation was serving bottled drinks out of 4 large coolers under a 10X10 tent. "This is not what you would see when you picture a typical lemonade stand," she said.

Yeah, most people think of Lucy's ramshackle psychiatrist booth from Peanuts, but when you've got an operation like this, you're getting into real money, and you're getting into real liability issues. I'm torn between being mad at "big government", but I'm also aware of the dangers of food poisoning, food allergies, traffic issues, and if you want to go into tinfoil hat territory: regular companies astroturfing these types of stands to get away from legitimate business permits/taxes, etc.

Yeah, I think you just have to go with a "duck test" when it comes to things like that. Is it really a kids' lemonade stand or a bona fide service kiosk? I would say if you've got a big tent, coolers, and pre-bottled drinks, you've gone a bit past "lemonade stand."
 
Hughes noted the kid's lemonade operation was serving bottled drinks out of 4 large coolers under a 10X10 tent. "This is not what you would see when you picture a typical lemonade stand," she said.

Yeah, most people think of Lucy's ramshackle psychiatrist booth from Peanuts, but when you've got an operation like this, you're getting into real money, and you're getting into real liability issues. I'm torn between being mad at "big government", but I'm also aware of the dangers of food poisoning, food allergies, traffic issues, and if you want to go into tinfoil hat territory: regular companies astroturfing these types of stands to get away from legitimate business permits/taxes, etc.

Yeah, I think you just have to go with a "duck test" when it comes to things like that. Is it really a kids' lemonade stand or a bona fide service kiosk? I would say if you've got a big tent, coolers, and pre-bottled drinks, you've gone a bit past "lemonade stand."

I still feel its not big brothers job to protect me from these things, if these stands bother you, do not go to them.
 
Yeah, most people think of Lucy's ramshackle psychiatrist booth from Peanuts, but when you've got an operation like this, you're getting into real money, and you're getting into real liability issues. I'm torn between being mad at "big government", but I'm also aware of the dangers of food poisoning, food allergies, traffic issues, and if you want to go into tinfoil hat territory: regular companies astroturfing these types of stands to get away from legitimate business permits/taxes, etc.

Yeah, I think you just have to go with a "duck test" when it comes to things like that. Is it really a kids' lemonade stand or a bona fide service kiosk? I would say if you've got a big tent, coolers, and pre-bottled drinks, you've gone a bit past "lemonade stand."

I still feel its not big brothers job to protect me from these things, if these stands bother you, do not go to them.

Yeah, you're right. Why regulate people selling anything? Who cares if what they're selling meets basic safety standards or anything like that? There's money to be made! If you can save money on your lemonade by diluting with toilet water, by God, that's your right.
 
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Yeah, I think you just have to go with a "duck test" when it comes to things like that. Is it really a kids' lemonade stand or a bona fide service kiosk? I would say if you've got a big tent, coolers, and pre-bottled drinks, you've gone a bit past "lemonade stand."

I still feel its not big brothers job to protect me from these things, if these stands bother you, do not go to them.

Yeah, you're right. Why regulate people selling anything? Who cares if what they're selling meets basic safety standards or anything like that? There's money to be made! If you can save money on your lemonade by diluting with toilet water, by God, that's your right.

Lets insert some realism into your paranoia...
 
I still feel its not big brothers job to protect me from these things, if these stands bother you, do not go to them.

Yeah, you're right. Why regulate people selling anything? Who cares if what they're selling meets basic safety standards or anything like that? There's money to be made! If you can save money on your lemonade by diluting with toilet water, by God, that's your right.

Lets insert some realism into your paranoia...

You mean like the incontrovertible fact that businesses routinely poisoned and maimed their employees and customers with unsafe products and equipment, until they were regulated to stop doing so? You mean that kind of realism?

I get that you're kinda young and raging against the machine and all, and I'm sure you can find perfectly valid examples where the government has overreached. That does not justify reflexive rejection of everything the government does as unnecessary or malevolent.
 
Yeah, you're right. Why regulate people selling anything? Who cares if what they're selling meets basic safety standards or anything like that? There's money to be made! If you can save money on your lemonade by diluting with toilet water, by God, that's your right.

Lets insert some realism into your paranoia...

You mean like the incontrovertible fact that businesses routinely poisoned and maimed their employees and customers with unsafe products and equipment, until they were regulated to stop doing so? You mean that kind of realism?

I get that you're kinda young and raging against the machine and all, and I'm sure you can find perfectly valid examples where the government has overreached. That does not justify reflexive rejection of everything the government does as unnecessary or malevolent.


you are talking about big companies, I just mean a tent selling bottled drinks and candy bars...big difference.
 
Lets insert some realism into your paranoia...

You mean like the incontrovertible fact that businesses routinely poisoned and maimed their employees and customers with unsafe products and equipment, until they were regulated to stop doing so? You mean that kind of realism?

I get that you're kinda young and raging against the machine and all, and I'm sure you can find perfectly valid examples where the government has overreached. That does not justify reflexive rejection of everything the government does as unnecessary or malevolent.


you are talking about big companies, I just mean a tent selling bottled drinks and candy bars...big difference.

Depends on how big a tent we're talking and also how much volume.

A small setup that does a respectable amount of business--enough for one or two kids to handle? Sure, that's probably fine. I can trust that the kids keep the cooler clean and used off-the-shelf mixes to make their drinks or whatever.

Once you start to need more help, though, it's hard to ensure things are clean and that basic safety standards are met. It's not that hard for someone to get salmonella or something else from your little drink stand because you didn't properly sanitize.

The government shouldn't be in the business of shutting down kids' lemonade stands--and according to the article, it really isn't. It's going after the larger enterprises that are more obviously commercial, as well they should.

If you have the money for a large tent, coolers, and to go out and buy pre-bottled drinks, you are not a "lemonade stand" anymore. It's a distinctly commercial retailing establishment.
 
You mean like the incontrovertible fact that businesses routinely poisoned and maimed their employees and customers with unsafe products and equipment, until they were regulated to stop doing so? You mean that kind of realism?

I get that you're kinda young and raging against the machine and all, and I'm sure you can find perfectly valid examples where the government has overreached. That does not justify reflexive rejection of everything the government does as unnecessary or malevolent.


you are talking about big companies, I just mean a tent selling bottled drinks and candy bars...big difference.

Depends on how big a tent we're talking and also how much volume.

A small setup that does a respectable amount of business--enough for one or two kids to handle? Sure, that's probably fine. I can trust that the kids keep the cooler clean and used off-the-shelf mixes to make their drinks or whatever.

Once you start to need more help, though, it's hard to ensure things are clean and that basic safety standards are met. It's not that hard for someone to get salmonella or something else from your little drink stand because you didn't properly sanitize.

The government shouldn't be in the business of shutting down kids' lemonade stands--and according to the article, it really isn't. It's going after the larger enterprises that are more obviously commercial, as well they should.

If you have the money for a large tent, coolers, and to go out and buy pre-bottled drinks, you are not a "lemonade stand" anymore. It's a distinctly commercial retailing establishment.

And that means the great evil big government tick must latch itself onto you and drain you of your money so state and fed senators can afford to get 5 star medical insurance and free dinners, or to buy more bombs to blow up third world waste countries...the government does not need that money or deserve it...
 
Lets insert some realism into your paranoia...

You mean like the incontrovertible fact that businesses routinely poisoned and maimed their employees and customers with unsafe products and equipment, until they were regulated to stop doing so? You mean that kind of realism?

I get that you're kinda young and raging against the machine and all, and I'm sure you can find perfectly valid examples where the government has overreached. That does not justify reflexive rejection of everything the government does as unnecessary or malevolent.


you are talking about big companies, I just mean a tent selling bottled drinks and candy bars...big difference.

What if it's a tent selling bottled drinks and chocolate bars run by adults? That should be regulated, shouldn't it? There is a point where it goes beyond a bunch of kids selling lemonade made from concentrate.
 
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