What continuity errors are there on Voyager?
- Thread starter Luther Sloan
- Start date
That sentence was more internally inconsistent than that sentence.
Saquist
Commodore
DS9 and VOY are probably the most internally inconsistent shows in Trek aside from TOS when it was getting it's footing.
VOY only makes a few errors really but the fans think they are more than they are like how many torpeodes we have and Voyager never looking damaged. Those have real reasons for why they were inconsistent, They weren't going to spend budget money for damaging the model and filming it when they its keeper to simply use stock footage. While the torp problem is a little louder it's not inconievable they merely found away The built two Delta Flyers after all.
But DS9 had some other problems such as the Ferengi Latinum and Gold issue.
Rom stupid then Rom smart is a big character plot hole.
And then although only in technicality DS9 could never get it's hierarchy of ship strengths right at all. Runnabouts shifted to extremely weak to practically starship strength and BoP's could do just the same damage as Defiant on opponents but could never themselves take out Defiant and Don't get me started on the ship size which DS9 royally screwed just about everything on.
VOY only makes a few errors really but the fans think they are more than they are like how many torpeodes we have and Voyager never looking damaged. Those have real reasons for why they were inconsistent, They weren't going to spend budget money for damaging the model and filming it when they its keeper to simply use stock footage. While the torp problem is a little louder it's not inconievable they merely found away The built two Delta Flyers after all.
But DS9 had some other problems such as the Ferengi Latinum and Gold issue.
Rom stupid then Rom smart is a big character plot hole.
And then although only in technicality DS9 could never get it's hierarchy of ship strengths right at all. Runnabouts shifted to extremely weak to practically starship strength and BoP's could do just the same damage as Defiant on opponents but could never themselves take out Defiant and Don't get me started on the ship size which DS9 royally screwed just about everything on.
Odd that you mentioned the ship strength inconsistencies in DS9 but forgot to mention the same criticism that VOY gets (with the Borg and Voyager itself).
Re: Rom - seriously? Rom wasn't stupid, he was a genius that got called an idiot by Quark because:
- he's socially awkward
- he's not business-minded
- Quark's a jerk
I thought this was obvious?
Re: Rom - seriously? Rom wasn't stupid, he was a genius that got called an idiot by Quark because:
- he's socially awkward
- he's not business-minded
- Quark's a jerk
I thought this was obvious?
Saquist
Commodore
That's not what the episodes said time after time in the early going and never showed at all he was smart in fact they showed the opposite and then in one episode all of a sudden he's fixing everything. When you write stories you don't do that. Everything has an appropriate lead in if it's purposeful because story telling isn't primarly about being deceptive it's about exposition and the DS9 exposition clearly stated Rom was an idiot and then that suddenly changed with one line of text...that's a character plot hole if there ever was one. You can interpret it every which way to resolve it though but these episodes aren't created by the same people every week and so inconsistency were bound to pop up.
I never really considered VOYAGER's strength against the Borg to be inconsistent. We just seemed not to accept how strong Voyager was. But in Basics Janeway was SO confident about VOYAGER'S combat abilities she knowing took Voyager into an ambush of 8 Predator Class Kazon Motherships choosing to take on 4 by herself and Destroying One of them!
Yeah Voyager has gotten the weak angle on some episodes too though.
But given that the first few seasons we only saw Rom being told to serve drinks, it makes sense that we see only the socially awkward side of him.
When was it ever clearly stated that Rom was an idiot, besides Quark saying it in his "asshole brother" scenes? Granted, Rom and Nog were pretty underdeveloped in the first season, but if anything he was portrayed as even less of an idiot back then because there was none of the awkwardness; he was just your generic Ferengi talking about profits and whatnot.
- Little Green Men
I'm not trying to "re-interpret" or "resolve" anything. The "underappreciated genius" thing was the whole point of the character, and I'm genuinely surprised that someone completely missed the point and thought it was a "plot hole".
Saquist
Commodore
I remember Sisko said it early on...and then Odo later...much later (which made me take note) said "Rom a genius...who would have thought." I think this this is the episode where Rom is trying to reintergrate the minds of the crew with their bodies which were put in the holodeck. The idea with the sudden change is that with Dax and Obrian in the Holodeck (our regular mr. and ms. fix it) then some one tech savy needed to save the day. This was the episode they made Rom smart.
It was a good move for what was to come but it wasn't planned well.
- Little Green Men
Our Man Bashir was but only two episode after that and all of this suddenly at the beginning of the fourth season.
As you watch season 4 it's clear this is the beginning of the real development of many secondary characters most notably Rom. (actually the 3rd season was the the beginning of true development of those secondary characters like Nog but it found better footing in the planning of season 4 and 5 as their stories begin to unfold.)
Edit: and there is a big difference between merely being smart and genius
Edit2: Think about it. Why would Quark (his brother) ask "when did you get so smart". His brother of all people should know and clearly he wasn't fixing the holosuites from that point previously.
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Yes, like I said, he was a genius who got called an idiot. That was the point.
According to your reasoning, this scene, too, is an inconsistency:
One character stating their opinion of another character is not "exposition", and different characters having different opinions is not a "plot hole".
Odo's quote about Rom makes sense because of how Odo feels about Ferengi in general. It isn't exposing that Rom was always an idiot and now is suddenly a genius.
If you'd actually been paying attention to the character of Rom itself and not just the names he gets called by other characters, you'd have noticed that he was never actually an idiot and had been building up courage ever since season 2.
Saquist
Commodore
I did.
The reasoning is the exposition itself. Not merely the hearsay. In writing hearsay dialogue or narrative can be used to establish a character. Rom never said he wasn't an idiot...he does say he wasn't a thief. That's exposition. Stories are written on the basis that we have to thrust what we are being told on some degree, that includes the characters perceptions of each other. Exposition though is the purposeful establishment of a character in order to develop the characters and thus the story. When ever characters are established one way or not developed at all or established it can lead to plot holes or contrivances in the story.
Are there any other points in the past where Rom's intelligence was hinted at?
Saquist
Commodore
I don't know. I've been noticing that too.
There really is nothing wrong with coming up with interpretations to blend the inconsistency togeteher...
For me ENT episode In a Mirror Darkly surely tells us that ENT is definitely a alternate universe because now that Defiant is there they couldn't possibly have the same tech for the next hundred years...seems reasonable but the producers of show were adamant that ENT was the same Timeline we always knew...that reduces my speculations to fanwank to some.
It's used (ive noticed) insultingly.
Sad thing is, if Kim had been portrayed the same way as Rom we'd be getting ten times the amount of complaints.
And the Borg vs Fed ships have ALWAYS been inconsistent. We see the Borg destroy an Excelsior class ship in one shot right through the shields and then we see them take their time with a more primitive Miranda class right after that. And we see them have trouble even locking onto a Galaxy class with their tractor beam but then in FC we see them once again destroying ships more advanced than Galaxies in single shots right through the shields.
And the Borg vs Fed ships have ALWAYS been inconsistent. We see the Borg destroy an Excelsior class ship in one shot right through the shields and then we see them take their time with a more primitive Miranda class right after that. And we see them have trouble even locking onto a Galaxy class with their tractor beam but then in FC we see them once again destroying ships more advanced than Galaxies in single shots right through the shields.
Saquist
Commodore
That was Deep Space Nine.
But a good example would be where we see the start and end of the battle because editing can be deceiving,
What exposition? Rom was never established as an idiot outside of hearsay.
Okay, so Quark says, "Rom, you idiot!" and Rom neglects to turn to the camera and say "Actually, audience, I'm not," therefore he's an idiot?
That was Quark.
...No, it isn't. That's Quark pleading innocent. He may have been lying. That quote was from the pilot. We later learn that Quark is certainly capable of being a thief.
Yes. His engineering talents weren't revealed until he became more confident, but before that, his actions never backed up the other characters' claims that he was a retard. I thought it was made quite clear that he was taken advantage of not because he was an idiot, but because he was too much of a wimp to stand up for himself.
At the very beginning of season 2, there's a pay-day scene where Quark is giving Rom an unfair share of profits. Rom perfectly understands what's going on, and shows a bit of defiance, but ultimately backs down.
Soon after that, there's an evacuation. Quark tries to take advantage of the situation (and Rom, as usual) by selling Rom's seat. Quark (again assuming Rom is an idiot) tries to fool him by saying he wouldn't sacrifice his own brother's life for profit, but Rom (not being an idiot) sees right through it and refuses to give up his seat.
As Rom becomes more confident, he eventually enters into business with a rival bar owner, still fed up over Quark ripping him off. And this is all still in season 2. There was never any episode where he was shown to be actually idiotic aside from being involved in routine Ferengi shenanigans.
... I see Anwar still hasn't changed. Still basing his arguments on hyperbole and what his "Voyager-hating" opponents "would have" said or felt in imaginary alternate scenarios.
If Kim had worked out like Rom, his character would have actually went somewhere. There would have been distinct differences between early-seasons Kim and late-seasons Kim.
early in season one Rom teamed up with the Naguses son to kill the nagus and Quark. It was a flawed plan and did make him out to be an idiot when it all blew up in his face.
Rom grew up.
Rom got a new job, basically ending a slaves life, a little dignity. raised a son who in the beginning was embarrassed by him, bedded a super hottie and married her, and then became Grand Fucking Nagus where at he played Lincoln creating massive social reforms for women and fair play.
Kim on the other hand didn't change at all. No adventure he had had a lasting effect on him. Gods, season 7's Nightingale has us beleive that kim is releived that he's still a kid who doesn't have to worry about choices and responsibility.
Rom grew up.
Rom got a new job, basically ending a slaves life, a little dignity. raised a son who in the beginning was embarrassed by him, bedded a super hottie and married her, and then became Grand Fucking Nagus where at he played Lincoln creating massive social reforms for women and fair play.
Kim on the other hand didn't change at all. No adventure he had had a lasting effect on him. Gods, season 7's Nightingale has us beleive that kim is releived that he's still a kid who doesn't have to worry about choices and responsibility.
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Maybe if there had been more to Kim than "nobody Ensign played by a substandard actor who never took his work seriously" then there'd be more to work with. At least Rom was connected to two other characters in the show right off the bat that allowed for different interactions than other characters.
Don't quote me on this, but I think Rom and/or Nog were originally supposed to be "nobody Ferengi who only show up in the first episode".
They ended up being "Grand Nagus and first Ferengi in Starfleet".
Surely with some imagination they could've taken Mr. Nobody Ensign and turned him into something cooler.
They ended up being "Grand Nagus and first Ferengi in Starfleet".
Surely with some imagination they could've taken Mr. Nobody Ensign and turned him into something cooler.
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