wwe vs tnt anyone watching?

[timothy]

GQ Interview with CM Punk...

http://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/201107/cm-punk-wwe-wrestling-interview?currentPage=1

From page 2...

GQ: You've talked a lot about your treatment within the WWE and the way the company generally runs. How could it be done better?
C.M. Punk: A lot of the people who are in charge—and this isn't a negative thing—are old. They have a wealth of experience, yes, but there's no youth that's involved in anything. The youngest people there are all performers. I don't envy their job, trying to get inside somebody's head and figure out who they are and what their character is. It's a nerve-racking thing when you first get there. If you're like me, this was your dream job; you worked 13 years to get to where you are. The normal course of action is mouth shut, eyes and ears open, not stepping on toes. But that's how you get ahead. A squeaky wheel gets the grease. If something sucks, I've always been completely vocal about it, and I've been punished many, many times because of that. But I don't think I'd be in the spot I'm in right now if I wasn't me. I've always just been me. I don't think we should be looking externally for talent; there's plenty of guys and girls in house that are super-talented that we don't do enough with. A guy like Evan Bourne, who's a fantastic high-flyer, does the most fantastic stuff on the roster. I could go on: Kofi Kingston, Dolph Ziggler, Beth Phoenix. There's Nattie Neidhart, Tyson Kidd. Tyson Kidd is a fantastic wrestler, maybe not the greatest promo. So let's help him. Let's teach him to get better instead of signing someone from Europe who failed at Euro football. I could talk about this forever. Part of it is that there's no territories; there's no place for people to learn. And the places that people can learn aren't the best, and they're completely looked down upon. Like independent wrestling. It's easy to shit on people from a great height, but it's another thing to pull them aside and try to impart knowledge. And I've been on the other side of the coin where I try to help somebody out and they blow me off like they know everything.

There are 4 pages...so be sure to read it all.

wow that is incredible the way he talks about all the behind the sceen stuff that goes on. I all most hope he wins. I totally agree with him from monday that the title is a ugly piece of shit belt. so far the ROH and Iw have the best looking belts. yes I know that belt are considered props in the wwe but come on if you're going to have a prop have a great looking prop.

now is'nt chris jericho's walls of jerico stings move?

 

[Admiral_Young]

The Walls of Jericho isn't The Scorpion Death Lock. The latter is based on the sharpshooter. Walls of Jericho is a modified Boston Crab I believe.

 

[timothy]

my bad they just look a lot a like. smackdown tonight here's hoping for a great show. but most likely we will get highlights of things heading into the ppv this sunday.

 

[Mr Silver]

The Walls of Jericho isn't The Scorpion Death Lock. The latter is based on the sharpshooter. Walls of Jericho is a modified Boston Crab I believe.

Yup, the original version known as the "Liontamer" was an elevated Boston Crab with a knee to "add pressure" to the spine. When Jericho came to the WWE, he stopped using the knee and renamed the move "The Walls Of Jericho". When Jericho made his return in late 2007, the move essentially became a low angle Boston Crab.

 

[Shazam!]

Yup, the original version known as the "Liontamer" was an elevated Boston Crab with a knee to "add pressure" to the spine. When Jericho came to the WWE, he stopped using the knee and renamed the move "The Walls Of Jericho". When Jericho made his return in late 2007, the move essentially became a low angle Boston Crab.

Part of the reason was that the bigger WWE guys weren't as flexible.

 

[Mr Silver]

Yup, the original version known as the "Liontamer" was an elevated Boston Crab with a knee to "add pressure" to the spine. When Jericho came to the WWE, he stopped using the knee and renamed the move "The Walls Of Jericho". When Jericho made his return in late 2007, the move essentially became a low angle Boston Crab.

Part of the reason was that the bigger WWE guys weren't as flexible.

Yeah, Jericho's first feud in his return was against JBL who as we all know wasn't in the best physical shape during his last run. Asides from that, its a much easier variation for opponents to credibly escape from. Although its not as fascinating anymore, it still prompts the same reaction from the crowd, especially when Jericho applies it out of nowhere.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yep. Chris discusses this in his book. I like the Codebreaker which is pretty much just a modified "jumping" neck breaker. I think Punk used another variation of it...or he might have just been using the actual move I can't remember now.

 

[timothy]

after tonight I so want Daniel Bryan to win the smackdown money in the bank. it'll build a bigger fued between him and cody.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I have absolutely no interest in that feud. They couldn't have put two more boring guys together in a program. Cody and Ted have done absolutely nothing since the break up of Legacy.

 

[timothy]

which fued are you most currently into?

 

[Mr Silver]

I have absolutely no interest in that feud. They couldn't have put two more boring guys together in a program. Cody and Ted have done absolutely nothing since the break up of Legacy.

Ugh and the worst part is that Dibiase was the IWC's darling. They were all like "He's going to be a main eventer in no time!" But I was always behind Cody, theres something unique and marketable about Cody.

The only feud worth anything in WWE at the moment is the Punk Vs Cena/McMahon/WWE.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yep. Pretty much agree.

 

[timothy]

The only feud worth anything in WWE at the moment is the Punk Vs Cena/McMahon/WWE.[/QUOTE]


well there is that, but it won't last much longer than mitb ppv. unless it carries over into real life.

 

[Mr Silver]

WWE and TNA both need more innovative submissions. American Pro Wrestling is full of common submission holds, such as, The Ankle Lock (Kurt Angle, Jack Swagger), The Crossface (Triple H, Daniel Bryan), The STF (John Cena, Samoa Joe). If its not those its one of the classics like the Figure Four, The Sleeper, The Sharpshooter/Scorpion Deathlock or The Cobra Clutch. Both Batista and The Big Show used the Camel Clutch within a year or so of each other, being referred to as "a new submission move that no one has escaped from yet". New to them perhaps, but not new to wrestling in general, in fact the Camel Clutch since the mid 1990's has been used as a common wear down submission hold in virtually every wrestling promotion. Since Big Show and Batista are not known for their submission expertise, they could have at least come up with something more original.

I do like Randy Orton's new Reverse Boston Crab hold, it reminds of Shuji Kondo's "Gorilla Clutch" (although thats done elevated with a cloverleaf leglock). Prior to this the only really "new" submission hold was Taker's "Hells Gate" which had been performed prior by Kurt Angle (funnily enough he used it to force the Undertaker to tap out).

 

[Admiral_Young]

@timothy really? You should know better than that now. Have you paid attention to anything that we've said about the feud in this thread? It won't cease to magically exist after Money in the Bank.

 

[Mr Silver]

Here is something interesting for you all to digest. Here is a list of every champion in the WWF/E 10 years ago to this very day! Bare in mind that during this time, the "Invasion" angle was in full swing and thus all WCW champions (with the exception of the Hardcore and Cruiserweight Tag Team) were also in competitive effect!

WWF Heavyweight Champion: "Stone Cold" Steve Austin
WCW World Champion: Booker T
WWF Intercontinental Champion: Lance Storm
WCW United States Champion: Booker T
WWF European Champion: Matt Hardy
WWF World Tag Team Champions: Bradshaw and Faarooq (The APA)
WCW World Tag Team Champions: Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'Haire
WWF Light Heavyweight Champion: X-Pac
WCW Cruiserweight Champion: Billy Kidman
WWF Hardcore Champion: Jeff Hardy
WWF Women's Champion: Vacated (Chyna was involved in a contract dispute)

Its interesting that only two of these champions of the past are still active full time wrestlers (Chuck Palumbo and Matt Hardy). Steve Austin and Booker T are the only people from the list who remain with the company in a capacity (although both have left the company on at least one occasion for an extended period of time). Jeff Hardy is currently inactive, pending results from his trial whilst also trying to combat his drug problems. JBL retired from wrestling over two years ago and has moved into business full time. Sean "X-Pac" Waltman is a part time indie wrestler and is apparently involved in training at FCW. Billy Kidman is a WWE trainer, Lance Storm retired from wrestling 5 years ago, he now runs a wrestling school and writes a column for Fighting Spirit Magazine. Sean O'Haire retired from wrestling following his WWE release, he pursued a brief MMA career before returning to his previous occupation as a bodyguard. Ron "Faarooq" Simmons retired from wrestling some time ago, he makes occasional appearances for WWE. Joanie "Chyna" Laurer briefly worked for NJPW following her release from the WWE, she last appeared in a limited wrestling role at TNA Sacrifice.

Most of the WCW guys weren't really given a chance. Lance Storm started off strong, having an awesome match against Edge at the 2001 KOTR. He then went on to form the UnAmerican's faction. From then on out he didn't do much, occasional tag team champion and the odd comedy role. Despite being one of the most talented wrestlers to come out of Stu Hart's "Dungeon", WWE never really bothered with him. Billy Kidman didn't do much either he briefly reformed his tag team with Rey Mysterio in 2003 before having a short run as Tag Team Champions with Paul London, he retired after spending an extended time on Velocity. Chuck Palumbo was given a popular gimmick along with Billy Gunn as supposed gay lovers. Although in the end they were revealed as publicity seeking heterosexuals, the gimmick did take off. Chuck Palumbo didn't do really much and was released a couple of years later, before returning and adopting a biker gimmick that failed to take off (because WWE invested nothing in it) he was most recently released in 2008.

Sean O'Haire is another guy with a lot of potential that didn't make it in the WWE. He was out with an unjury for most of 2002 and upon his return was given an interested rebel gimmick. Packaged along with Roddy Piper as his mouthpiece he proceeded to gain some notable victories before WWE lost interest. Going out with another injury, upon his return he was released shortly afterwards.

Booker T is the sole exception of the WCW guys, although he didn't really get much of a look in. In 2002 he was packaged in a comedy tag team with Goldust where they won the Tag Team titles on a couple of occasions. In early 2003 he recieved a big push and battled Triple H for the World Heavyweight Championship at WM 19, but this match was incredibly one sided and made Booker T look like nothing in comparison to the ego tripping Triple H. During the 2003-2005 period, Booker T held the Intercontinental and United States Championships on multiple occasions, he also formed a successful tag team with Rob Van Dam, becoming Tag Team Champions.
It wasn't until he moved to Smackdown that he began to break out, following a heel turn Booker T feuded with the Undertaker and although he lost to the Boogeyman in a squash match at WM 22, he didn't lose any momentum. Adopting a "King" gimmick following his KOTR win, Booker defeated Rey Mysterio to win the World Heavyweight Championship and formed a faction with Finlay and William Regal, this run even saw Booker T win a triple threat that also featured John Cena and Big Show to be declared "Champion of Champions". Booker T later lost the World Heavyweight Champion to Batista and after a brief feud with Triple H over the "King" title, he left WWE to work for TNA. Booker T returned this year as a colour commentator and occasional wrestler.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I would assume the title situation ten years ago reflected the status of the Alliance invasion storyline? Yeah. We know the WCW guys weren't really given that much of a fare shake by Vince. He wasn't able to grab up the marquee guys that everyone wanted to really see after the purchase of WCW. We also know that this reason is Steve Borden's primary reason for not having signed with the company. He had some genuine concerns then but now he'd be treated like a god I think.

 

[Mr Silver]

We know the WCW guys weren't really given that much of a fare shake by Vince. He wasn't able to grab up the marquee guys that everyone wanted to really see after the purchase of WCW.

To be fair though, Vince did score Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and Goldberg. Each of these men were pushed to the moon as soon as they debuted. By 2004, only Ric Flair remained and Goldberg was on the way out. Obviously Scott Hall's behaviour cost him his job, Kevin Nash went down with an injury and left for TNA to work a lighter schedule. Hulk Hogan was an interesting case, he was given a sizeable amount of money, a lighter schedule and several pushes, but he wanted more and eventually fell out with Vince, returning only to make one off appearances. Goldberg was signed to a year long deal, with an immediate push, a World title reign and a sizeable pay cheque, but his run in WWE couldn't capture the WCW streak essence and in the build to his match with Lesnar, Goldberg declined to re-sign with the company.

Ric Flair was treated like royalty, due to his friendship with Triple H and good working relationship with Vince McMahon. He was given a light schedule, as Triple H's manager, he was constantly featured in main event angles and was even given a run as the Intercontinental Champion. After Flair retired, his need for money (to continue living the lifestyle he was accustomed to after his divorce and legal troubles drained his finances) lead him to fall out with WWE, who took him breaking his retirement badly (after they had pulled all the stops out to make something special out of it) and he later signed a contract with TNA, but not before falling out with ROH, and swindling Highspots out of a large amount of money.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah. I was meaning during the invasion story line...not two or three years later. A lot of fans point out that the Alliance storyline would have been better had Vince had those guys in tact. Especially Flair or Hogan. Imagine the Alliance being led by Flair? Due to not having those guys right off the bat execution of the story arc started to waver forcing Vince and creative to make some decisions, like turning Stone Cold heel and making him leader of the Alliance (that worked). Etc.

The revival of the nWo storyline hurt due to injuries and Hogan's unexpected face turn (at least it seemed unexpected thanks to the fans starting to cheer for him). Kevin Nash's injury kind of halted the injection of poison. I kind of always wondered where Vince intended it to go because other than attacking The Rock and the Scott Hall/Steve Austin feud it really didn't go anywhere.

 

[Mr Silver]

Ahh yeah, sorry a bit of misunderstanding on my part!

I absolutely agree, imagine if post Invasion PPV that Shane McMahon had revealed that he sold WCW to a mysterious bidder, one that Steve Austin (who had turned heel on WWF) had acted as middleman to. The storyline would build for weeks during which time there would be a lot of screwyness from both sides. After an internal struggle which sees Tazz get humiliated by Steve Austin, Vince McMahon would persuade Heyman, Stephanie and the ECW wrestlers to defect, thus making WWE stronger.

Eventually the buyer(s) of WCW would be revealed as three individuals, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair and Eric Bischoff. Hogan would also be accompanied by the NWO (Nash and Hall) who would claim that rather than fighting the WCW, they should have always brought the fight to the WWF. WCW and the NWO would work together in a true WCW vs WWF storyline. At Survivor Series the "Winner takes all" would take place match where it would be Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Booker T and Ric Flair vs The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Undertaker, Rob Van Dam and Big Show. The final two competitors would be Steve Austin and The Rock just as it happened and the WWF would claim victory.

However, instead of it being a clear cut victory, Eric Bischoff would announce on the following RAW that even though Vince may now own WCW, he cannot destroy it and Bischoff proceeds to produce some kind of legal document that states WCW must be run as an organisation with all employees entitled to remain until their contracts come to an end (basically Vince can't fire them).

At Vengeance, Jericho would unify the two world championships The split would then happen, but with WCW instead of Smackdown. The titles would be like this for example...

WWE
Intercontinental Championship: William Regal
WWE Tag Team Championship: Billy and Chuck
Womens Championship: Trish Stratus

WCW
United States Championship: Lance Storm
WCW Tag Team Championship: Kevin Nash and Scott Hall
Cruiserweight Championship: Gregory Helms

Dual
Undisputed World Championship: Triple H (With it being defended on both shows, until the titles split and WCW would get the World Heavyweight Championship with Triple H (who was drafted to WCW and started an alliance with The Outsiders and Ric Flair) being awarded the title by Eric Bischoff.)

This split of the brands as WWE and WCW could continue as long as it remained popular.