Why not have holographic armies?

[Timo]

Creating the holograms is simple - the UFP has been manufacturing mobile emitters since day one. They just don't happen to be teeny weeny badges that a humanoid hologram can wear on his chest. But we've seen tabletop models and rooftop models in addition to large starshipboard mounts.

Once they've learned what you've been doing with the holographic emitters, they would be practically useless. Anybody could probably come up with a counter tactic.

Why? Nobody has come up with a "counter tactic" yet that would negate the usefulness of nuclear missiles, even though those are just as gimmicky a technology as holograms, and just as full of "weaknesses". Nor is there a "counter tactic" to the use of biological or chemical weapons that would negate their usefulness. Not even in the Star Trek universe, where it might be dramatically customary for McCoy to rummage through his black bag for two minutes and come up with a potion that completely negates a disease or a poison, yet for some strange reason diseases and poisons still serve as efficient killers.

It's probably far easier to come up with a counter tactic that completely negates the advantage of having live human(oid)s on the battlefield...

Then both sides realise that it's just a waste of energy, and destructive to the territory that you want to possess.

And why would that be in any way specific to holograms? All warfare is just a waste of energy, and destructive to the territory that you want to possess. Especially if you fight a long and drawn-out war with clubs and stones.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TheLobes]

Based on the control and safetly of holodecks, Id say it would take about 15 minutes for the holo-army to rebel, and destroy the federation.

 

[Paradon]

Creating the holograms is simple - the UFP has been manufacturing mobile emitters since day one. They just don't happen to be teeny weeny badges that a humanoid hologram can wear on his chest. But we've seen tabletop models and rooftop models in addition to large starshipboard mounts.

Once they've learned what you've been doing with the holographic emitters, they would be practically useless. Anybody could probably come up with a counter tactic.

Why? Nobody has come up with a "counter tactic" yet that would negate the usefulness of nuclear missiles, even though those are just as gimmicky a technology as holograms, and just as full of "weaknesses". Nor is there a "counter tactic" to the use of biological or chemical weapons that would negate their usefulness. Not even in the Star Trek universe, where it might be dramatically customary for McCoy to rummage through his black bag for two minutes and come up with a potion that completely negates a disease or a poison, yet for some strange reason diseases and poisons still serve as efficient killers.

It's probably far easier to come up with a counter tactic that completely negates the advantage of having live human(oid)s on the battlefield...


Timo Saloniemi

It just strike me as something that could easily be manipulated because you are manipulating it already with the hologram emitter. From that assumption, if lights could be that easily manipulated, I think we can assume they can use some kind of scattering field to destabilize it, or something. I don't know.

 

[Timo]

Personally, I feel that it's similar to arguing that human armies can easily be turned against their masters: the soldiers are being psychologically manipulated to do their bit for king and country, so a little bit of extra propaganda should work on them all the more easily.

But I could easily see Trek writers going for this angle. A huge and invincible army that for some mysterious reason works on a single central holoprojector or control computer or has a single jammable frequency would be just like the thing to pit our heroes against...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rojixus]

I'd also add that if you're gonna start using holograms as fighting units, they needn't be "people".

In fact, if using a holographic construct as a weapon, why WOULD you want a humanoid form?

The fighting unit can be programmed as anything imaginable. Why program a holographic soldier when you can have a multi-armed, any size, giant robot phaser machine, whatever.

No need to anthropomorphise at all.

The humanoid form is far more versatile.

How is a static humanoid form more versatile than a programmable "anything you can need or imagine" shapeshifting hologram?

A programmable shapeshifting hologram will probably be unable to exceed its programing (i.e. it can only shape-shift into so many forms) A humanoid form can do anything that a humanoid form can possibly do, not just in fighting capabilities but logistical ones as well.

 

[sojourner]

^that makes no sense. What inherent in the humanoid form would allow it to "exceed it's programming" when the shapeshifter can't? Very flawed logic.

 

[Butters]

The humanoid form is far more versatile.

How is a static humanoid form more versatile than a programmable "anything you can need or imagine" shapeshifting hologram?

A programmable shapeshifting hologram will probably be unable to exceed its programing (i.e. it can only shape-shift into so many forms) A humanoid form can do anything that a humanoid form can possibly do, not just in fighting capabilities but logistical ones as well.

A humanoid form can only do what a humanoid form can do, which doesn't include becoming a bridge, or an extending spinning blade to decapitate the enemy, or whatever.

Holograms are the just 3D solid projections. Computer output. If there was a use for them in combat, I can't see many situations where looking like a person would be the best option.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Why not have an enemy empire with holographic/AI slave armies, even if such things are off the table for noble Starfleet.

Starfleet should adopt the soldierboy concept - "dumb" robots, being remotely controlled by human/humanoid operators. There should be drone starships entirely operated by remote. Beats sending your troops into battle wearing pajamas.

 

[DonIago]

^So much for "boldly" going...

 

[Rojixus]

On second thought, it might be more efficient to use subspace transporters to beam quantum torpedoes to the target, just bypass the middleman.

 

[SchwEnt]

Using transporter technology as a weapon (in all kinds of ways) is something that has never really been explored in ST. Maybe some kind of ban on that kind of stuff, like bio-warfare.

 

[Yevetha]

Maybe some kind of ban on that kind of stuff, like bio-warfare.

How would they enforce it?

 

[The Wormhole]

Using transporter technology as a weapon (in all kinds of ways) is something that has never really been explored in ST. Maybe some kind of ban on that kind of stuff, like bio-warfare.

It was once, Voyager's Dark Frontier.

 

[SchwEnt]

^^^ Oh I was thinking way more creative than that VOY eps. Horrible, terrible things done to people with transporter technology, intentionally.

And beaming out critical components of an enemy ship,
to disable or destroy it.

All kinds of mayhem.

 

[Shatnertage]

Let's say the Borg are invading. If you've got a big enough mobile emitter, could you just create a holographic Borg cube to fight the Borg cube that's attacking you?

Your entire defense budget could just be spent on a big mobile emitter that could mimic whatever's coming to invade.

Until the other side starts using holograms, and then you're fighting a hologram Cube with a holographic copy of a hologram Cube, ad absurdiam.

 

[Merky]

They worked in some Voyager episodes. And they are probably cheaper than a real army.

Because its no fun, drama, not conducive to the plot, blah blah blah

 

[Rojixus]

They worked in some Voyager episodes. And they are probably cheaper than a real army.

Because its no fun, drama, not conducive to the plot, blah blah blah

Hehe, exactly!

 

[brian577]

^^^ Oh I was thinking way more creative than that VOY eps. Horrible, terrible things done to people with transporter technology, intentionally.

And beaming out critical components of an enemy ship,
to disable or destroy it.

All kinds of mayhem.

Enterprise already did that in E2. Which was only possible because they knew the exact location of the components because they were fighting the same ship class.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

^^^ Oh I was thinking way more creative than that VOY eps. Horrible, terrible things done to people with transporter technology, intentionally.

And beaming out critical components of an enemy ship,
to disable or destroy it.

All kinds of mayhem.

Enterprise already did that in E2. Which was only possible because they knew the exact location of the components because they were fighting the same ship class.

Or beaming people's brains out of their skulls. Or just randomly beaming bits off them and leaving them to die agonising deaths.

 

[Yevetha]

That sounds interesting.