Blessed be the Sun
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A.V.I.A.F.
Captain
That's what made it stand out. Generally, whenever the religious practices of the Enterprise was referenced, the idea that it was multi-faithed tended to be promoted (e.g., during the wedding scene in Balance of Terror, and again in Bread and Circuses where McCoy says that they "represent many beliefs."). However, in Who Mourns for Adonais, Kirk does say "Mankind has no need for gods; we find the One quite adequate." A reference at least to monotheism, if not to Christianity. But where does that leave polytheistic faiths that are still practiced today (and presumably on into the 23rd century)? They seem to favor monotheistic religion, the "sun worshippers" of this modern Rome are taken far more seriously once it is discovered that they are "Son worshippers" instead; yet they are supposed to be multi-faithed...which is it?
Fellow barbarian here
I just love this episode. Personally, I am as atheist as you can get, but how can those lines at the end not bring a lump to the throat?
"A philosophy of total love and total brotherhood."
"Wouldn't it be something to watch, to be a part of? To see it happen all over again?"
Massively underrated episode IMO
It’s my understanding that the line “We find the One adequate” was added at the insistence of network censors.
Of course, “Bread and Circuses” isn’t quite a parallel to Earth’s ancient Rome and the beginnings of Christianity. The Jews had been monotheists for a couple of millennia before the birth of Christ, and Jesus himself was a Jew. So, why no mention of Jews?
And the “son/sun” thing is a clever bit of wordplay, assuming everyone in the Trek universe speaks English!
I've always enjoyed this episode, too. I'm also atheist, but the closing lines are touching. I also enjoy the location work, the scene in the cave, and the wonderfully creative dystopian/alternate history theme, which had its climax in the amazing TV games scene.
I haven't watched this one for a while, so thanks for the suggestion.
Doug
I haven't watched this one for a while, so thanks for the suggestion.
Doug
I'm an atheist as well and I love this episode. The satire present in the Roman television studio scene always give me a laugh. The episode also features some of the best Spock/McCoy scenes in the series. There's great action scenes and the stuff with merrick and kirk was cool too.
Oddly, I have no problem with the Christian references here, but hate that "We find the one adequate" line and cringe every time I hear it. In This episode it seems very natural and is in fact touching, but that line is so out of place in Adonais. Not only does it sound like something someone tacked on to not upset censors, but the entire episode's message is in opposition to such belief. It just feels weird.
Oddly, I have no problem with the Christian references here, but hate that "We find the one adequate" line and cringe every time I hear it. In This episode it seems very natural and is in fact touching, but that line is so out of place in Adonais. Not only does it sound like something someone tacked on to not upset censors, but the entire episode's message is in opposition to such belief. It just feels weird.
I am a Christian, and I agree with you about the line "We find the one adequate" That's not Star Trek. I find it offensive as someone who finds value in all religious, and or non religious beliefs.
While on the topic of the episode, I'm pretty much down to 2 unanswered questions about TOS, and they both revolve around Bread and Circuses. Put on your Teachers:
1) the music cue in the tag, where Kirk is going through is "Caesar and Christ" speech: is that unique to this episode? BAC was otherwise tracked; there was no original music except, I think, for this...it sounds like George Dunning to my ear....
and
2) Gene Coon is credited as Producer. The next episode shot was "Journey to Babel", where John Meredyth Lucas comes on board. But the week after that, they shot "A Private Little War", and Coon is back in the credits.
What happened? Was JML given training wheels? Had Coon done such a massive re-write on APLW, that Roddenberry tossed him a bone (although GR purportedly had a heavy hand on that script too)?
Thanks.
1) the music cue in the tag, where Kirk is going through is "Caesar and Christ" speech: is that unique to this episode? BAC was otherwise tracked; there was no original music except, I think, for this...it sounds like George Dunning to my ear....
and
2) Gene Coon is credited as Producer. The next episode shot was "Journey to Babel", where John Meredyth Lucas comes on board. But the week after that, they shot "A Private Little War", and Coon is back in the credits.
What happened? Was JML given training wheels? Had Coon done such a massive re-write on APLW, that Roddenberry tossed him a bone (although GR purportedly had a heavy hand on that script too)?
Thanks.
In Portuguese it would be sol and filho, Never noticed but this episode is a prime indicator that the characters are actually speaking English to each other.
I often watch the show in Spanish (translation) and never picked up on this.
Isn't that just another one of Roddenberry's "battle with the censor" tall tales?
There's no indication that either Gilbert Ralston (who came up with the story), or Gene Coon ever had a problem with the line. Or were "forced" to put it in by anyone. Ralston and Coon were the two men credited with writing the script.
I can't help with either question, sorry. Other than to add that Captain Robert April pointed out to me that this was the first episode filmed after the Paramount takeover of Desilu, and that things may have been disrupted by that. There have also been stories that Coon and Roddenberry parted ways after an argument over the tone of this script, so I'm not sure about Roddenberry tossing him a bone.
One of my biggest unanswered TOS questions is also about this episode : why did they delay airing it for about half a season? It can't have been the special effects!
It's sadly been a much overlooked episode.
If you weren't aware, Startrekhistory.com interviewed director Ralph Senensky, who recently watched Bread and Circuses for the first time in years. He walked away disappionted with the finished product, but has had a bit of a change of heart all these years later - an interesting interview.
I believe the studio transition occurred during Mirror, Mirror.
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I thought he did a wonderful job. One particularly nice touch was the edit between Ian Wolfe saying "Go with the Son..." and a POV shot looking from the ground up at the Sun while our heroes walk by, with Wolfe's voice overlapping between the two shots.
Doug
A few notes from last night's viewing:
1) Notable quotes:
McCoy - "It's called training."
Spock - "I assumed it was trial and error."
Guard - "Bring the network's ratings down, Flavius, and we'll do a special on you!"
2) Logan Ramsey had a luscious part as the Proconsul, and he ate it up!
3) I never noticed on the DVD editions, but on the BD, there are a few shots (a few of the early location shots - see HD caps 260 and 261 at Trekcore, and the first two-shot w/ Kirk and Drusilla - caps 642 and 643) that appear to be from much lower generation sources. The contrast is washed-out, and the detail is much softer. I don't know if the negative was damaged, or maybe these were optical zooms in the original edits.
Doug
Yes, that line is in the episode.
Although I don’t see why it should be so “amazing,” considering every alien race they encountered spoke English!
Oh, and your formatting is screwed up so my name is on T’Girl’s post.
If you overlay the shot from pics 642/643 with the shot before it, you will see it's actually the same take, optically zoomed in as you suspected, hence the graininess and contrast issues.
The shot from pic 260 looks bad because it's doing the fade effect at the end of the shot. It's extremely obvious on every single fadeout or crossfade in every episode of TOS. I find it very distracting, and I'm only watching the DVD versions.
And especially since, just before leaving the ship, they watched a news broadcast from the planet in which the announcer spoke in English!
For me, "Bread and Circuses" stands out as one of the best TOS outings. Definitely a favorite.
There is a clever message from Roddenberry and Coon, "Bread"'s writers. It appeals to the religious and non-religious among us. Note how Flavius starts out mean and aggressive, "I should kill you here...", quick with his rifle. He tells the guard "I will not fight. I am a Brother of the Son", which the guard dismisses "You're as peaceful as a bull." Flavius relents.
But then Flavius must've realized he was in the company of extraordinary people, so he escapes and sacrifices himself to save Kirk. The amazing transformation could only be due to Flavius discovering hope. He realized that Kirk and company were the real deal, and they were there to do business with Merrick. He gave his life to help make it happen.
The same for Merrick himself. Proconsul Marcus berates First Citizen "Merrickus", telling him "The thoughts of one man to another cannot possibly interest you" when Merrick discovers that Marcus developed a grudging respect for Kirk. So Merrick uses the communicator he stole, and sacrifices himself to call for Kirk's rescue.
The message is that when people have no hope, they turn cynical and shed their morality. It's kill or be killed in a struggle to survive. But when people see they can make a difference, they see hope, and they tend to give of themselves, even self-sacrifice, to do the right thing.
The same thing goes for Scotty and the Enterprise crew. They can do nothing but listen to Spock's report when the wreckage of the S.S. Beagle is discovered. And Chekov isn't enthusiastic when Scott orders the engineering of an EMP on the "Roman" power grid. But Soctt sees an opportunity to give these aliens a reminder who holds the real power. Scott and Flavius save Kirk, who, helped by Merrick, saved the Enterprise landing party.
And I also loved the globe used for Planet 892-IV. Similar in some ways, different in others from Earth.
And you have to love Bart LaRue as the announcer: "You name the winner!"
There is a clever message from Roddenberry and Coon, "Bread"'s writers. It appeals to the religious and non-religious among us. Note how Flavius starts out mean and aggressive, "I should kill you here...", quick with his rifle. He tells the guard "I will not fight. I am a Brother of the Son", which the guard dismisses "You're as peaceful as a bull." Flavius relents.
But then Flavius must've realized he was in the company of extraordinary people, so he escapes and sacrifices himself to save Kirk. The amazing transformation could only be due to Flavius discovering hope. He realized that Kirk and company were the real deal, and they were there to do business with Merrick. He gave his life to help make it happen.
The same for Merrick himself. Proconsul Marcus berates First Citizen "Merrickus", telling him "The thoughts of one man to another cannot possibly interest you" when Merrick discovers that Marcus developed a grudging respect for Kirk. So Merrick uses the communicator he stole, and sacrifices himself to call for Kirk's rescue.
The message is that when people have no hope, they turn cynical and shed their morality. It's kill or be killed in a struggle to survive. But when people see they can make a difference, they see hope, and they tend to give of themselves, even self-sacrifice, to do the right thing.
The same thing goes for Scotty and the Enterprise crew. They can do nothing but listen to Spock's report when the wreckage of the S.S. Beagle is discovered. And Chekov isn't enthusiastic when Scott orders the engineering of an EMP on the "Roman" power grid. But Soctt sees an opportunity to give these aliens a reminder who holds the real power. Scott and Flavius save Kirk, who, helped by Merrick, saved the Enterprise landing party.
And I also loved the globe used for Planet 892-IV. Similar in some ways, different in others from Earth.
And you have to love Bart LaRue as the announcer: "You name the winner!"
A minor note regarding the sun/son thing: there's no need for anybody to speak English in the episode but Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
That is, there's no evidence that the followers of the Son would ever have spoken a word that in their own language could be confused with the word for the sun. It's the Universal Translator that creates this misunderstanding, by translating the local word for Son into an English word that can be interpreted two ways if not seen in writing. Had the UT chosen to translate the local word into "offspring" or "kiddo" or "fruit of God's loins" or whatever, Kirk wouldn't have gotten confused. But apparently the locals didn't use synonyms of Son so the UT didn't feel obligated to use synonyms, either...
What's non-primitive about the worshipping of fathers and sons, BTW? Isn't that even more primitive than sun worship?
Timo Saloniemi
That is, there's no evidence that the followers of the Son would ever have spoken a word that in their own language could be confused with the word for the sun. It's the Universal Translator that creates this misunderstanding, by translating the local word for Son into an English word that can be interpreted two ways if not seen in writing. Had the UT chosen to translate the local word into "offspring" or "kiddo" or "fruit of God's loins" or whatever, Kirk wouldn't have gotten confused. But apparently the locals didn't use synonyms of Son so the UT didn't feel obligated to use synonyms, either...
What's non-primitive about the worshipping of fathers and sons, BTW? Isn't that even more primitive than sun worship?
Timo Saloniemi
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