Game of Thrones 1.10 - "Fire and Blood" - Rate and discuss
- Thread starter Out Of My Vulcan Mind
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They managed some pretty snazzy effects with Dragonheart over a decade ago. Realistic dragons are a lot easier than realistic wolves or any number of other things they're going to need to pull off over the next couple years.
Animatronics would be great, but I don't think they're necessary for the dragons.
Animatronics would be great, but I don't think they're necessary for the dragons.
Well, I recently bought a collection of the first 4 books, and it had to characters pictured on it: Danny and Ned Stark.
I don't think it's strange to be surprised by Ned not making through the first book*.
*Loves that George R.R. Martin had the balls to do that.
Again, it looks like it's my place to be a prick here, but announcing that there are only three Mormont's that we'll see is a spoiler.
Now, I'm reading the books, and am on the second book now. So, no spoiler that I read in an episode thread here will catch me off guard in the future.
But the book readers in these threads have consistently been worse than any spoilers I've dealt with in the past for any show. Plot points, characters, sets, all discussed without regard for people trying to explore the world for the first time. And I suppose that it's because I only discuss A Game of Thrones two places (here and at HitFix) that these threads have come to piss me off.
Alan Sepinwall's blog at HitFix has 213 posts (at this moment) for the season finale, and neither that thread nor any of the season's episode's previous threads had any of the spoiler issues that our threads here have had.
So I know that it's possible to have these discussions with book readers without getting spoilers, and people here have just been utterly incapable of being polite for newbies. That won't be an issue for me next season, but I would hope that you guys learn to be a little more considerate of the people that are just discovering this universe. There is a thread in this forum for people to discuss the show with spoilers, and maybe if a few more of you are considerate enough to use the relevant thread next season you won't piss people off.
-Indy, who has been a member of TBBS for 10 years without ever having a problem with spoilers before this show.
Only if you want to go to extremes to define 'spoilers' in order to complain about them. IMO, spoilers should actually, you know, SPOIL something. The number of Mormonts is not a plot point or cliffhanger resolution, what does that spoil, exactly? Someone simply commented that it's cool that we saw all 3 family members in one episode. Relevant to the episode being discussed, and spoils nothing. At worst, they told you the name of a character that was standing in the background and not otherwise addressed at all. More of a 'here's a cool detail that they included and you probably missed' rather than a spoiler.
There have been several posts in these threads you might have had a point with, but when you get down to this level of 'spoiler' to get pissy about, it hurts the argument.
No one is dropping anything major that I've seen, but it can be difficult to discuss current things when they're part of a bigger picture only some people have seen. Even little things like using past tense when talking about someone by accident, or whatnot. Might as well call people out for speculating about CGI for the direwolves next season, since it implies that at least one will be alive to require CGI...
BIG points, especially the unexpected ones, SHOULD be considered spoilers (like Ned dying) because if you find out ahead of time, it spoils things. Not every single thing (like this very minor example of implying that we've only seen 3 mormonts in the books) spoils NOTHING. If things upset you at that level, really either need to read the books, or cut down on the number of websites you spend discussing the show and speculating on things that everyone else knows the answer to...
lol 'realistic' dragons
I know what you mean, though . . . it's easier to believe a dragon when we have no reference for what a dragon looks like in real life, whereas wolves and dogs we see almost every day, so unless the fur and animation are spot on, they fall into the uncanny valley
Trying to remember now if the dragons from the opening credits look like these, or were the 'other' dragon style, with 4 legs and then wings also. These ones make more sense from a bird-like standpoint, but means they have to pretty much be either flying or sitting upright all the time, whereas in most fantasy tales, they've got 4 legs, so you can have them walking around, lying down on their pile of treasure, etc.
Just a random thought after seeing someone was excited that they only had 2 legs and pair of wings. Thought the opening had them more horizontal, implying 4 legs, but might be mistaken and can't find the right screencap...
Just a random thought after seeing someone was excited that they only had 2 legs and pair of wings. Thought the opening had them more horizontal, implying 4 legs, but might be mistaken and can't find the right screencap...
Won't get fooled twice. I did read the novels, I did expect Ned to die, I expected him to die at episode nine ever since that episode's title was confirmed to be "Baelor".
As for who is the main character right now? That's an interesting question. Per the last thread, would expect Peter Dinklage to get top billing, so there's that.
Maege, Jorah and Jeor Mormont are the only Mormonts mentioned in the first novel - that I recall, anyway. They're certainly the only Mormonts who we 'see' in that book. There'd be no point in acknowledging any Mormonts who may or may not appear in later books because they don't appear in A Game of Thrones.
Observing that Game of Thrones has done something in line with A Game of Thrones isn't something I consider that spoilery, no.
I would consider it spoilery if it makes an observation about the future of the TV series as gleaned from the later events of the books.
I asked that question last week and apparently they're keeping GoT as the series title...
An excellent finale to an outstanding season!
- Emilia Clarke was awesome in this episode. She really shone here. The little dragons were very nicely realized. As an aside, that must be the first time in screen history that a dragon was used as a modesty patch.
- The Night's Watch moving out was rousing. The way it was cut together with the Old Bear's speech playing over it game me chills.
- Maester Pycelle's sexposition scene was a surpise. It was the weakest scene, but at least it provided a bit more depth and range to the character.
- That was indeed Hot Pie. He was actually named as such in the scene by his friend (presumably Lommy Greenhands). Really good casting for Hot Pie there.
- I was also surpised at the early reveal that Cersei is banging Lancel. She'd screw a rusty nail as long it was related to her and wasn't a dwarf.
- Joffrey's cruelty to Sansa, his wavering in reaction to her unexpected fortitude and her being tempted to push him to fall to his death made for a great scene.
- And now we have to wait for 9-10 months for the next season, but at least the long-awaited fifth book will be available in just a few weeks.
- Emilia Clarke was awesome in this episode. She really shone here. The little dragons were very nicely realized. As an aside, that must be the first time in screen history that a dragon was used as a modesty patch.
- The Night's Watch moving out was rousing. The way it was cut together with the Old Bear's speech playing over it game me chills.
- Maester Pycelle's sexposition scene was a surpise. It was the weakest scene, but at least it provided a bit more depth and range to the character.
- That was indeed Hot Pie. He was actually named as such in the scene by his friend (presumably Lommy Greenhands). Really good casting for Hot Pie there.
- I was also surpised at the early reveal that Cersei is banging Lancel. She'd screw a rusty nail as long it was related to her and wasn't a dwarf.
- Joffrey's cruelty to Sansa, his wavering in reaction to her unexpected fortitude and her being tempted to push him to fall to his death made for a great scene.
- And now we have to wait for 9-10 months for the next season, but at least the long-awaited fifth book will be available in just a few weeks.
I'm fairly certain Maege's daughter Dacey also appears in the first book, because doesn't she go off to war with Robb's host as well? Those tough Bear Island women!
So would I, only it didn't. It was pretty confined to the 'present' of the show.
Yeah I couldn't remember whether or not Dacey was in the first book.I'm fairly certain Maege's daughter Dacey also appears in the first book, because doesn't she go off to war with Robb's host as well? Those tough Bear Island women!
Good ratings news: the season finale hit a new high with 3 million viewers for the initial airing and 3.9 million viewers with the encore. That's a 37% growth from the premiere. HBO often renews a show after one or two episodes of a new season, so hopefully the second season premiere will score good numbers and we'll get a third season renewal soon thereafter.
Well great then, sorry I said anything. It just didn't read that way to me.
I don't think so.
There are places where one could discuss this show with dozens of posters, through hundreds of comments per episode, and not learn which characters will have big parts in the next season. And not learn which sets and locations will show up next season.
And some of the book readers in these threads have thrown around details with enough ease that I felt it was worth saying something in the hopes that a viewer next season won't be spoiled by one of our threads.
We may have different definitions of what a spoiler is, but I would tend to work under the assumption that any detail about things contained in chapters of the book not yet shown on HBO should be considered at such. I think it's a matter of respect.
And since people wouldn't even have to go to page two in this forum to reach a thread for A Game of Thrones the TV show for people who have read A Song of Ice and Fire, I see even less reason for why this should be so hard for you.
And which part of that applies to the comment you went off on, essentially "cool, we got to see all 3 Mormonts in this episode"?
No details about what's going to happen, sets, who has what parts in later seasons, etc. Technically the only thing it "spoils", i guess, is that there isn't a giant army of Mormonts waiting to sweep in and attack the realm (thus far). On behalf of whoever spoiled that for you, sorry?
Think generally, people have been ok in these threads, but (within reason), people have a right to discuss the weekly episode along with everyone else. Shouldn't go out of your way to wreck things for newbies, but the other side of that is that if you're THAT antal-retentive about future details, and hearing ANYTHING about this series will spoil your enjoyment of the whole thing, you're taking a huge risk by participating in internet discussions about it. Especially if you're doing so in multiple places like you claim. This is tough, because it's not like it's a TV show that aired in Canada the night before, so people are seeing things right before you. The show is new, but the book series ISN'T. Anyone who was already a fan of this series is so far ahead (and has been for years, most likely) that they can sometimes forget when things happen, exactly, or know that things you're getting excited about aren't ever going to pan out to anything, so forget not to shrug when a new viewer gets worked up over something they'll later find out is trivial. Watching Lost for the first time, people worked themselves into a frenzy trying to sort out things like the egyptian symbols we saw. If you were watching it again, but with a newbie, and accidentally rolled your eyes when they started guessing, well, it happens. (And even that example is way bigger than what you're complaining about, as that could have at least mattered at the time, whereas the Mormont thing was a random observation that didn't even matter at the time. Similar to someone pointing out that the kid in Episode 1 of GoT must have been Rickon, even though they hadn't called him that yet. Spoiler? No, not really.)
I don't get the level of blissful ignorance that people fight so hard for on these things, personally. Big things, definitely. If someone posted in the first episode that it was cool to see Ned before he dies, then that's kinda dick, as that's a big plot twist that you don't see coming, at least not from very far off. Commenting on seeing all 3 Mormonts doesn't quite hold up to that, does it? For it to be a SPOILER, doesn't it have to SPOIL something? What, exactly, has been ruined for you by finding that out? It's advance information, but about such a minor detail that you'd have a hard time describing what was lost, no?
People have been trying to behave in these threads, for the most part, but shit happens. Some people are experiencing this for the first time, and others have had this as their favorite series for a long time, and are excited to compare what they see to what they imagined. Haven't had a lot of problems with this, but if you're so worked up about it, why take the risk of ruining things for yourself? You have the option of avoiding discussion, especially if you know people have been slipping spoilers in before. Continuing to participate in threads when people are dropping spoilers (intentionally or not) is a choice you made. Could also read the books and catch up, taking it on yourself. You've got 9 months or so before the next season comes out, plenty of time to get through at least the 2nd book, if not the whole series. No one can wreck it for you that way, and you'll get all the enjoyment of finding things out yourself.
Taking the risk of participating in these things online, and blaming everyone else for your risky choice is bad form, IMO. Then again, outside of HUGE plot twists (Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!), I'm fine with the little bits. Gives you details to keep an eye on as they come up, rather than going back and looking again later. I'm more about the execution of the details rather than the details themselves.
If i want to make sure I'm completely unspoiled, and don't find out a single detail before watching/reading something, I don't hop on a bunch of message boards discussing that topic ahead of time...
No details about what's going to happen, sets, who has what parts in later seasons, etc. Technically the only thing it "spoils", i guess, is that there isn't a giant army of Mormonts waiting to sweep in and attack the realm (thus far). On behalf of whoever spoiled that for you, sorry?
Think generally, people have been ok in these threads, but (within reason), people have a right to discuss the weekly episode along with everyone else. Shouldn't go out of your way to wreck things for newbies, but the other side of that is that if you're THAT antal-retentive about future details, and hearing ANYTHING about this series will spoil your enjoyment of the whole thing, you're taking a huge risk by participating in internet discussions about it. Especially if you're doing so in multiple places like you claim. This is tough, because it's not like it's a TV show that aired in Canada the night before, so people are seeing things right before you. The show is new, but the book series ISN'T. Anyone who was already a fan of this series is so far ahead (and has been for years, most likely) that they can sometimes forget when things happen, exactly, or know that things you're getting excited about aren't ever going to pan out to anything, so forget not to shrug when a new viewer gets worked up over something they'll later find out is trivial. Watching Lost for the first time, people worked themselves into a frenzy trying to sort out things like the egyptian symbols we saw. If you were watching it again, but with a newbie, and accidentally rolled your eyes when they started guessing, well, it happens. (And even that example is way bigger than what you're complaining about, as that could have at least mattered at the time, whereas the Mormont thing was a random observation that didn't even matter at the time. Similar to someone pointing out that the kid in Episode 1 of GoT must have been Rickon, even though they hadn't called him that yet. Spoiler? No, not really.)
I don't get the level of blissful ignorance that people fight so hard for on these things, personally. Big things, definitely. If someone posted in the first episode that it was cool to see Ned before he dies, then that's kinda dick, as that's a big plot twist that you don't see coming, at least not from very far off. Commenting on seeing all 3 Mormonts doesn't quite hold up to that, does it? For it to be a SPOILER, doesn't it have to SPOIL something? What, exactly, has been ruined for you by finding that out? It's advance information, but about such a minor detail that you'd have a hard time describing what was lost, no?
People have been trying to behave in these threads, for the most part, but shit happens. Some people are experiencing this for the first time, and others have had this as their favorite series for a long time, and are excited to compare what they see to what they imagined. Haven't had a lot of problems with this, but if you're so worked up about it, why take the risk of ruining things for yourself? You have the option of avoiding discussion, especially if you know people have been slipping spoilers in before. Continuing to participate in threads when people are dropping spoilers (intentionally or not) is a choice you made. Could also read the books and catch up, taking it on yourself. You've got 9 months or so before the next season comes out, plenty of time to get through at least the 2nd book, if not the whole series. No one can wreck it for you that way, and you'll get all the enjoyment of finding things out yourself.
Taking the risk of participating in these things online, and blaming everyone else for your risky choice is bad form, IMO. Then again, outside of HUGE plot twists (Bruce Willis was dead the whole time!), I'm fine with the little bits. Gives you details to keep an eye on as they come up, rather than going back and looking again later. I'm more about the execution of the details rather than the details themselves.
If i want to make sure I'm completely unspoiled, and don't find out a single detail before watching/reading something, I don't hop on a bunch of message boards discussing that topic ahead of time...
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Awesome news. Hopefully the show keeps growing into Season Two.
I think the time given to the Maester Pycelle scene would have been better utilized with a scene showing Cersei's initial reaction to learning that Jaime has been captured by the Starks.
Edit to add: It seems I totally blanked on the fact that we actually did see Cersei's initial reaction to learning that in the scene with Lancel. That reaction was way too muted!
Edit to add: It seems I totally blanked on the fact that we actually did see Cersei's initial reaction to learning that in the scene with Lancel. That reaction was way too muted!
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But all of those things have been given out in the last two threads. And given the death of Ned Stark, I don't think it's unreasonable to people discovering this for the first time to not take anything for granted now.
It's about respect for your fellow poster. I guess I would prefer to let people discover these things in the way they've chosen to, and not make that choice for them. You obviously feel differently, but that doesn't make me wrong, or a prick.
You've decided on your own definition of spoilers, and what it's to to drop and what shouldn't be. Bully for you. But since I don't remember there being general agreement on that, I don't think posters should be subjected to the details put forth by whichever poster happens to have the loosest definition of what a spoiler is.
In my years here, I don't think I've ever made a post complaining of spoilers before. I don't think I've done it anywhere else, either. I'm some sort of raving spoiler-phobe.
And I realize the post I commented on yesterday was petty. But it wasn't really about that, as much as avoiding a general contentment in this forum for people to freely drop details in the future.
I agree with this, but....
People that don't want spoilers from books shouldn't have the option of discussing a TV show?
Double standard much?
This argument makes even less sense when there's a thread for readers of the books on the first page of this forum.
Yeah. If you'd bothered to read my posts in this thread instead of just going off on me you'd have read that I am reading the books, and have just started A Clash of Kings. I specifically mentioned that my complaining is no longer about protecting myself from spoilers, but rather posters who watch the show next season and wish to discuss it.
Who's "going off" on anyone? I'm simply arguing with what you're saying, as I don't agree with it, and think it's spotty logic at best. My comments are all in the general sense of the thread(s), but feel free to take personal offense if you like, i guess? For the record, though, you called YOURSELF a prick, I didn't. Pretty sure you don't get to insult yourself and then blame me for calling you names...
Still contend that the biggest problem is with the definition of Spoiler in the first place. You went off on this whole thing on something that I just can't see as actually BEING a spoiler. Feel free to claim I'm defining it too loosely, but admit you went to far the other direction. Can claim I'm inventing my own definition, but the dictionary, coincidentally, appears to agree with me:
Dictionary.com
That's about where I stand on it. I'd highlight the word "important" myself, but then we'd argue the definition of that, I guess. Plot twists, answers to puzzles, main character death, those things should be avoided, as they could 'spoil' (there's that word again) your suspense or discovery of the twist yourself. Something like "cool, saw all 3 Mormonts this week (in the episode we just watched" is so far outside of those bounds you can't even see it from here. I agree with you that people shouldn't jump in and tell you Ned is going to die (and have since the beginning of this discussion), but for people that insist that absolutely EVERYTHING not on screen, no matter how trivial, will ruin the entire series for them, I continue to stand by the claim that they are taking a huge risk participating in discussions with people that have advance knowledge on that subject. They're welcome to try it, and people SHOULD try not to ruin things for them, but accidents happen. If you KNOW you're the sort of person that's anal about spoilers, you need to take better care to protect YOURSELF rather than putting the onus on everyone else to protect you to the standard you want to be protected.
I don't believe anyone's in here intentionally trying to blurt out spoilers or ruin things, so what else is there to say?
It's different with new tv shows or movies, because NO ONE has seen them yet, or they've just aired and people are getting to it. You allow a little time for people to catch up, and then it's fair game. I'm avoiding the Falling Skies threads, because I've DVRed it and want to watch it first. Going in and reading it and then getting mad would be silly.