What I learned about dopamine today

[Witterquick]

Today I learned our brain's reward center goes crazy when it gets an unexpected reward.

So you're chugging along fine in your ho-hum life, content and happy, getting your steady shots of dopamine, but when something unexpectedly pleasant happens, you get this huge hit.

Suddenly so many things became clear to me. Why people with great lives and careers risk everything for that moment of euphoria. Why people get addicted to gambling. Why that sudden unexpected chocolate treat from your co-worker tastes so much better than your own snack. Why it's so fun to poke your head into the kitchen to see what's cooking and hopefully steal something. (Yup that explains kleptomaniacs as well).

Surprises are sweet. And that the joy of living lies not in doing the same safe thing everyday but trying new things. The more you try to control, the more you crave for the euphoria of losing it.

Well this is just something I wanted to share. It really is something that I know already but it just seems so much clearer now with the science and everything.

 

[1001001]

It also, sadly, explains drug addiction.

The release of dopamine from one line of crank is more reliable and more powerful than any "normal" experience.

 

[iBender]

Is that why I'm the centre of my own universe? - Wow - That stuff really f**ks with your head.

That's one of the reasons they call it 'Dope', because of the dopamine... Other reasons include 'It's dope' - dope being a slang word for the word cool, and marijuana, does mellow you out - also it makes you dopey thus some call it 'Dope' because.

 

[Avalon]

Well this is just something I wanted to share. It really is something that I know already but it just seems so much clearer now with the science and everything.

Wait, wait -- was there an article or was this...uh...practical experience? If it was an article is there a link or reference? (It would be really, really useful to pass on if possible.)

 

[RoJoHen]

It also, sadly, explains drug addiction.

The release of dopamine from one line of crank is more reliable and more powerful than any "normal" experience.

I prefer to use sunlight as my drug. Sunlight triggers the release of dopamine, which is the main reason people get depressed in the winter time. I have started using tanning beds during the winter to help counteract the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder.

 

[ALF]

Sure. Rainbows, laughter, sunshine and happiness are all drugs. Soon to be outlawed by King Stephen Harper. All hail the king!

Isn't Laudanum the origin of "dope" as a drug?

 

[Witterquick]

Well this is just something I wanted to share. It really is something that I know already but it just seems so much clearer now with the science and everything.

Wait, wait -- was there an article or was this...uh...practical experience? If it was an article is there a link or reference? (It would be really, really useful to pass on if possible.)

Rather than giving you a single article, just google dopamine and "unexpected rewards". The experiments are also mentioned in the wikipedia article on dopamine. Basically dopamine receptors are four times more excited when the reward is unexpected rather than routine. To start you off if you don't want to google, this one is pretty good.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/19/your_brain_on_gambling/

So if the mean girl is suddenly nice to you, you're four times more excited than when the nice girl is being her usual nice self.

Also interesting. Why it's so hard to stop yourself from self-destructing habits when you're in the middle of going through with it. It's hard to stop because the dopamine is already released. Stopping yourself in the middle of it would take it away.

For example, your brain is tuned in and expecting that burger when you pass the drive-thru. So before you even buy and eat that burger, dopamine is already released. If you pass the drive-thru without buying, you stop the dopamine release in its tracks. Little by little, your brain would learn to accept that (and not preemptively release dopamine release at the drive-thru) but it's hard to stop at first because you're basically snatching away your own crack in the middle of a high.

 

[Avalon]

^^^ Witterquick, thank you so much! This explains so much. I really appreciate it.

 

[Roshi]

That's one of the reasons they call it 'Dope', because of the dopamine... Other reasons include 'It's dope' - dope being a slang word for the word cool, and marijuana, does mellow you out - also it makes you dopey thus some call it 'Dope' because.

no 'they' don't.

 

[CaptainStoner]

That's one of the reasons they call it 'Dope', because of the dopamine... Other reasons include 'It's dope' - dope being a slang word for the word cool, and marijuana, does mellow you out - also it makes you dopey thus some call it 'Dope' because.

no 'they' don't.

Thanks for fielding that. For more then 10 years I've been hearing how hemp supposedly makes people stupid. And yet all I have seen when people smoke it is a spike in intellectual conversation, thought, and awareness of patterns not previously evident. And maybe some munchies.
The enormous damage Anslinger did to drug education in the world reverberates still.

 

[M'Sharak]

That's one of the reasons they call it 'Dope', because of the dopamine... Other reasons include 'It's dope' - dope being a slang word for the word cool, and marijuana, does mellow you out - also it makes you dopey thus some call it 'Dope' because.

no 'they' don't.

Ha! Reference materials FTW!

 

[Yoda]

It also, sadly, explains drug addiction.

The release of dopamine from one line of crank is more reliable and more powerful than any "normal" experience.

I prefer to use sunlight as my drug. Sunlight triggers the release of dopamine, which is the main reason people get depressed in the winter time. I have started using tanning beds during the winter to help counteract the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder.

And what's your plan for counteracting the effects of skin cancer?

 

[RoJoHen]

It also, sadly, explains drug addiction.

The release of dopamine from one line of crank is more reliable and more powerful than any "normal" experience.

I prefer to use sunlight as my drug. Sunlight triggers the release of dopamine, which is the main reason people get depressed in the winter time. I have started using tanning beds during the winter to help counteract the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder.

And what's your plan for counteracting the effects of skin cancer?

Moderation.

Tanning beds don't cause cancer any more than regular sun exposure does as long as you use them responsibly.

 

[1001001]

I should also mention that unexpected reward, what we in the business call Intermittent Positive Reinforcement, is also a big factor in gambling.

 

[Holdfast]

I should also mention that unexpected reward, what we in the business call Intermittent Positive Reinforcement, is also a big factor in gambling.

My inner pedant feels obliged to expand the bit about it being a factor in gambling to Variable Ratio Reinforcement rather than leave it as just Intermittent Reinforcement.

I know you know this stuff like the back of your hand, but for the general edification of the thread: Intermittent Reinforcement has Variable Ratio Reinforcement as a subset, but it also includes Fixed Ratio Reinforcement within it (and Fixed and Variable Interval Reinforcement too, but that's not important right now, Shirley).

Gambling uses Variable Ratio Reinforcement specifically.

By the way, if you want to have fun at your friends and colleagues expense, use Variable Ratio principles to determine whether you give them a compliment or not. Works wonders to keep them on side!

 

[1001001]

I should also mention that unexpected reward, what we in the business call Intermittent Positive Reinforcement, is also a big factor in gambling.

My inner pedant feels obliged to expand the bit about it being a factor in gambling to Variable Ratio Reinforcement rather than leave it as just Intermittent Reinforcement.

I know you know this stuff like the back of your hand, but for the general edification of the thread: Intermittent Reinforcement has Variable Ratio Reinforcement as a subset, but it also includes Fixed Ratio Reinforcement within it (and Fixed and Variable Interval Reinforcement too, but that's not important right now, Shirley).

Gambling uses Variable Ratio Reinforcement specifically.

You're killing me.

 

[Jadzia]

I should also mention that unexpected reward, what we in the business call Intermittent Positive Reinforcement, is also a big factor in gambling.

Intermittent Reinforcement has Variable Ratio Reinforcement as a subset, but it also includes Fixed Ratio Reinforcement within it (and Fixed and Variable Interval Reinforcement too, but that's not important right now, Shirley).

Gambling uses Variable Ratio Reinforcement specifically.

That's quite interesting. I wonder if these ideas could be employed in game design, to make a game more addictive to players.

Competitive sports for example involve sequences of wins and losses that follow a Variable Ratio. But whether it's felt as loss=punishment or win=reinforcement, I'm not sure.

In computer games like WoW, that are allegedly addictive, the player spends much of their time getting loot from their kills, that is usually trash, but is occasionally good, so it follows Variable Ratio Reinforcement.

I'm interested to know if either of you can think of other ways in which a computer game might exploit these (or other) techniques to make them quickly addictive and captivating.

 

[Holdfast]

I should also mention that unexpected reward, what we in the business call Intermittent Positive Reinforcement, is also a big factor in gambling.

Intermittent Reinforcement has Variable Ratio Reinforcement as a subset, but it also includes Fixed Ratio Reinforcement within it (and Fixed and Variable Interval Reinforcement too, but that's not important right now, Shirley).

Gambling uses Variable Ratio Reinforcement specifically.

That's quite interesting. I wonder if these ideas could be employed in game design, to make a game more addictive to players.

Competitive sports for example involve sequences of wins and losses that follow a Variable Ratio. But whether it's felt as loss=punishment or win=reinforcement, I'm not sure.

In computer games like WoW, that are allegedly addictive, the player spends much of their time getting loot from their kills, that is usually trash, but is occasionally good, so it follows Variable Ratio Reinforcement.

I'm interested to know if either of you can think of other ways in which a computer game might exploit these (or other) techniques to make them quickly addictive and captivating.

Many successful games, computer or otherwise, already employ variable ratio reinforcement. Think Monopoly's Chance/Community Chest system; or even something as simple as Snakes & Ladders. Any game with a "Critical Hit" does much the same. Power-ups in computer games are another example, if the power-up is changes nature each run or appears unpredictably.

Most games use a combination of different reinforcement and conditioning strategies, both positive and negative, which is pretty logical as it means there's less chance of "extinction" of the response.

I've gone off playing games partly because these things actually bug me more than please me these days. I feel the game is playing me, rather than me playing the game, so don't really enjoy it much. The games I do still play tend to be old titles with certain levels that I enjoy because I'm really good at them and enjoy a quick 5 minute blast on them once in a blue moon.

 

[Jadzia]

I've gone off playing games partly because these things actually bug me more than please me these days. I feel the game is playing me, rather than me playing the game, so don't really enjoy it much. The games I do still play tend to be old titles with certain levels that I enjoy because I'm really good at them and enjoy a quick 5 minute blast on them once in a blue moon.

Am interested to know which games you enjoy playing

When I play games with strong random chance elements, I usually feel as if I'm just throwing dice, and I tend not to personalise the success/fail of that, and I suspect that prevents the VRR mechanism from working. When I was young I may have delighted in rolling a double 6 and moving a full 12 steps ahead on the board, but not at all now.

For games that rely solely on skill, it's impossible not to personalise successful/unsuccessful trials, so I imagine VRR works stronger on us in those kinds of games, providing we're good enough at them to actually get frequent reinforcement.

Which leads me to wonder what the average win% should be to maximise the effects of VRR. Too frequent and the reward feels common and unspecial. Too infrequent and we may be tiring of the game quicker than we're getting rewards that draw us back in.