The next time you bemoan the state of TV today...
- Thread starter 23skidoo
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Right, but I'm being generous, clearly, as I'd also be for - to give a British example - Coupling.
Coupling was a moderately funny show, but only in certain doses. I just plain lost interest somewhere in the second season.
You want me to call it creative? Sure, fine, I'll say that. Want me to watch another episode? I'll pass.
Rescue Me is garbage, but if you're just going to categorically dismiss programs with "corrupt" characters, then a lot of the most creative stuff on television isn't going to appeal to you. But that doesn't mean it's not creative.All those just kind of blur together for me; same with stuff like The Shield and nuBSG and that Denis Leary show and so on. It certainly feeds the current appetite for lowbrow, corrupt characters, but I don't feel any spark of creativity.
Exactly. That sounds more like a moral issue than an artistic one. As long as a character is well-written or engaging, that's what really matters. IMHO.
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde: TV shows are neither moral nor immoral. Only well-written or badly written.
That's overly glib, of course, as all aphorisms are. But there's an element of truth there. In general, I'm more concerned with execution and aesthetics than whether characters are sympathetic, or likeable, or noble enough.
Bring on the vampires and serial killers and tragically flawed heroes . . . .
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I'd always assumed that The Flying Nun was about a young nun who had the power of flight and had to conceal it from the other women in her order. I was disappointed to find out from a friend years later that she was just occassionally swept up by breezes because of her habit. I think my concept of a mutant nun sounds a lot more interesting, quite frankly. 
From what I understand, The Monkees lost a lot of affiliates early on when their shennanigans disrupted a network event. Several of the more conservative station owners were not amused and refused to carry the show, which resulted in it having lower national ratings. That's according to the book The Monkee's Tale. A version of this incident also appears in the VH1 movie about the Monkees.
The fact that it was up against Gilligan's Island couldn't have helped either, though.
She could actually fly. It was a combination of her habit and her dimunitive stature.I'd always assumed that The Flying Nun was about a young nun who had the power of flight and had to conceal it from the other women in her order. I was disappointed to find out from a friend years later that she was just occassionally swept up by breezes because of her habit. I think my concept of a mutant nun sounds a lot more interesting, quite frankly.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz0PY07YtEs[/yt]
She could be a mutant though.
I suppose. You could also say it's part of the trend blurring news and entertainment, but I won't argue the point. I never said there was no creativity.
Oh, sure it was. Those are just two examples of creative shows that had short lifetimes. If you look over culture in general, as I said, including TV, movies, comics, music, everything was in an extremely creative phase. That's just the way it goes. Culture goes through ups and downs; it was in an up phase then and, as far as I can see, it's in a down phase now.
Being "dark & gritty" doesn't necessarily mean a show is bad-- Lost and Firefly are two great shows which used those elements (one of which, like The Monkees, was canceled prematurely)-- but it doesn't make a show creative; that sort of thing has been going on since the 80s, so it's a pretty tired trope at this point. Nevertheless, all you need is to use scumbags and psychos for your main characters and the show will be labeled as "edgy."Rescue Me is garbage, but if you're just going to categorically dismiss programs with "corrupt" characters, then a lot of the most creative stuff on television isn't going to appeal to you. But that doesn't mean it's not creative. Has a show ever produced a teaser as inventive as the music video that precedes "Negro Y Azul," a second season episode of Breaking Bad? Has there been a sitcom as self-reflexive as Community?All those just kind of blur together for me; same with stuff like The Shield and nuBSG and that Denis Leary show and so on. It certainly feeds the current appetite for lowbrow, corrupt characters, but I don't feel any spark of creativity.
Well, what other examples do you have, then? I already explained how the Hollywood film industry was in a period of relative decline until the late 1960s. I haven't seen a lot of television examples, either. I can't claim to be an expert about music or art of the period -- I barely know much about those arenas at all -- but in terms of film and television I just don't see it. "Oh, sure it was" isn't going far towards convincing me.
You'll have to show me where I claimed that being dark and gritty make a show creative.
I loved that teaser. For those who haven't seen it or don't know what Harvey is talking about, one of the episodes started off with this...
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxYrjWMvmdg[/yt]
It can be quite creative if it's used as a new and interesting twist on an existing property that wasn't originally dark and gritty.
A show about a nun with a habit that got her high?! Egad! Who says only modern shows could be dark and gritty?
Studio audiences provide a real purpose in filming a sitcom. When the audience laughs, it shows where pauses have to be added to allow for the laughs. They don't necessarily want to keep going, because if someone is laughing and the dialogue continues, the viewer will miss something.
It also allows adjustments if a joke just isn't working, or if laughter goes on too long, it gives them a spot to look if they need to trim for later.
Canned laughter is just crap added to tell you when to laugh, but studio audiences are a valid production aid.
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American television has improved enormously since the 1960s in just about every respect.
Next.
Next.
The Flying Nun.
I can see someone trying to pitch something like that today and getting laughed out of the office.
Hah! Just wait until we get the $150 million movie remake starring Scarlet Johansson! Or maybe Jessica Alba?
"You'll believe a nun can fly!"
The Flying Nun.
I can see someone trying to pitch something like that today and getting laughed out of the office.
Hah! Just wait until we get the $150 million movie remake starring Scarlet Johansson! Or maybe Jessica Alba?
"You'll believe a nun can fly!"
Exactly. It's not at all beyond the bounds of possibility. For gods' sake do it before Oscar award winner Sally Fields succumbs so that she can play the mother superior.
How about Selena Gomez?The Flying Nun.
I can see someone trying to pitch something like that today and getting laughed out of the office.
Hah! Just wait until we get the $150 million movie remake starring Scarlet Johansson! Or maybe Jessica Alba?
I suppose you're right. I never thought that the audience could be an aid for the lone home viewer. I can certainly see how.
And it's fun for the actual audience, too.
I suppose Corner Gas doesn't count, since it was filmed on location. I am definitely used to its laugh-free status. I like it much better that way.
