Seems more unlikely, since that would require a seperate simulator room for every single training ship of the period - which would be more than a little odd, particularly if the same bridge is used.
What Class Was 1701?
- Thread starter Tiberius
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Seems more unlikely, since that would require a seperate simulator room for every single training ship of the period - which would be more than a little odd, particularly if the same bridge is used.
Or they could just change the sign when a different group uses the simulator.
And I doubt that the Academy has all that many training ships.
Hell, by the time of DS9, they're still using the Republic.
Hell, by the time of DS9, they're still using the Republic.
Well, I imagine there's a training vessel for every major category of starfleet vessel. (IE, Destroyer, Cruiser, et al.) But between them all we see that the bridges are very similar in layout and function.
I never considered the two references to be mutually exclusive. I think "Starship Class" is essentially equivalent to FJ's "Class I" (or 01) fleet according to the Idea that a class refers to ships that can take over each others mission/roles to a greater or lesser extent, and can use the same dock/repair facilities (i.e. as with FJ, the ships are modular and have interchangeable components)?
Then, of course, "Constitution Class" refers to the specific model/class (IX, in FJ's system)or configuration? Although it does make more sense for the “model” name to be on the dedication plaque rather than the "class" name, I think?
Then, of course, "Constitution Class" refers to the specific model/class (IX, in FJ's system)or configuration? Although it does make more sense for the “model” name to be on the dedication plaque rather than the "class" name, I think?
For those remaining Doubting Thomases out there regarding when the first reference to "Constitution Class" was made, here's a tidbit from the 1968 edition of the Star Trek Concordance:
Just pointing out where FJ got the term (his daughter assisted Bjo while she was working with Lincoln Enterprises). Besides, none of the memos cited in TMoST say anything about the Enterprise being a Constitution class ship.
Before quoting from that book, kids, do what I do: keep a copy by the computer.
Before quoting from that book, kids, do what I do: keep a copy by the computer.
To nitpick, current navies don't do it that way. There's just one type of dedicated training vessel (which may or may not be a stripped-down actual combat vessel, often with extra accommodation), and perhaps a "lead-in" vessel or series of vessels of lesser scope for basic seamanship before the training moves on to the major oceangoing unit.
Actual service combatants tend to be too diverse that type-specific training could ever be given in a dedicated training vessel. Instead, training is received aboard operational combatants, in smaller groups of more educated trainees.
Starfleet might well be operating just a couple of major training vessels in the TOS era, one of them being a minimally converted old heavy cruiser (last witnessed as having represented the Enterprise class, in one interpretation of the evidence), and another possibly being a converted liner or cargo transport for all we know.
Timo Saloniemi
I thought as much, I know you are loath to credit FJ with being "first" in anything (at least in the positive sense), but as my own post above demonstrates, FJ obviously got his "Constitution Class" and "MK IX/01" from the graphic featured in "The Trouble with Tribbles" (aired in December 1967). So where he got it, or who he got it from is largely irrelevant, the ultimate source is all that really matters in the present discussion.
I was referring to this recent post by Shaw, which pretty much says it all...
Since the term "Constitution Class" appears on the graphic, the term was obviously current in the production offices at that time, it just wasn’t tied specifically to the Enterprise and her sister ships. That link would have to wait for the Next generation era before all the “Fanon” speculation on the matter would become “CAN
N”.Anywho, as has been pointed out in other threads recently, when thinking in terms of "Starships" the production chain of command generally never thought of anything other than the Enterprise and her sister ships. Plus, it's reasonable to assume that Whitfield/Poe's comentary in TMoST reflects first-hand discussions with those in the "CoC" at the production offices, so his use of "Constitution" for one of the ships like the Enterprise, and its general attribution for the class name is probably correct and still gets us pretty close to "official" first-time confirmation, even though his book as a whole generally is not considered so.
Oh, and since you put so much stock in Bjo Trimble, there's this from Vance...
The important point here is not Bjo Trimble or 1968 but that Roddenberry is the source, so again, Whitfield/Poe's comentary in TMoST undoubtedly reflects first-hand discussions with Roddenberry himself!
I'm not sure who you think your patronizing with the term "kids" but anyway, as for most of the rest of us, with a reliable reference such as Shaw made, appearing just a few posts up thread, it's hardly necessary for anyone crack open a copy of TMoST at all.
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Depends on how you define "on screen". IIRC, both "Starship" and "Constitution" only appear as class names as graphics and not in dialog. Starship might have the leg up because it was on a graphic that was part of a permanent set.
Nope. Just varying degrees of bluriness.
As for "The Making of Star Trek", since nobody else seems interested in actually taking a look at the book they're referring to, the memos about the names of other starships are on pages 163 through 165, and are only for the purposes of developing a reference list of other ships. No mention of any of the names belonging to a class ship.
Further, on page 203, in what is most likely a direct quote from the Writer's Guide, it is simply stated, "The Enterprise is a member of the Starship Class (there are twelve of them) Registry Number NCC-1701."
That's all TMoST has to say on the matter.
As for "The Making of Star Trek", since nobody else seems interested in actually taking a look at the book they're referring to, the memos about the names of other starships are on pages 163 through 165, and are only for the purposes of developing a reference list of other ships. No mention of any of the names belonging to a class ship.
Further, on page 203, in what is most likely a direct quote from the Writer's Guide, it is simply stated, "The Enterprise is a member of the Starship Class (there are twelve of them) Registry Number NCC-1701."
That's all TMoST has to say on the matter.
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Although I didn't recall the exact pages this is what I was remembering. The list is a suggested list for reference and not necessarily definitive.
I do know that back then (much like today) we grasped for any small tidbit to help flesh out the Trek universe and could often read more significance into a reference than it was due.
Thank you, I was somewhat irked that everyone was quoting the TMoST but not giving specific page numbers!? I did, in fact, look up what I thought everyone was talking about on pages 163 through 165, (days ago) but wasn't sure if there was any other more specific references.
But we must be careful not to fall into the trap of "reductio ad absurdum”. We have to do a little deductive reasoning here, and put two and two together.
We know from TMoST that TPTB were talking about names for other starships "like the Enterprise" and that "Constitution" was one of them. And we know that about the same time during production that "Constitution Class" showed up on a graphic used on screen.
So it doesn't take a brain scientist, or a rocket surgeon to conclude that someone in the "CoC" -most likely Roddenberry himself, as the evidence suggests- connected the name with the class at about that time.
Of course, none of this was “official” until decades later, but looking at it in retrospect, I think we’ve found the time and source of "Constitution Class" and that this is indeed a reference to the Enterprise and her class!
P.S. We also shouldn't forget that back at the time, TMoST was considered an offical source, so as soon as someone (Bjo Trimble?) became aware of what the graphic from TTWT actually said they would have done what we've just done, and "put two and two together".
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