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Who were genetically superior, the Founders or Species 8472?

ReadyAndWilling

Fleet Captain
hi folks, i was thinking about this earlier because supposedly 8472 have become involved in the PC game Star Trek: Online. my initial thought was to post this in another section, but i figured this would be the best location because the Founders are so popular.

ok, 7of9 says 8472 are the most advanced biological specimens the borg have ever encountered. does anyone know how they compare to the Founders? i was surprised how easily Laas dealt with that Klingon in S7. surely he couldn't do the same to 8472?
 
Stab it in the vital organs and kill it? Sure Laas could, stabbing things isn't rocket science. Species 8472 is harder than Klingons though so it might not just fall down dead...which Klingons for a race that is meant to be hardy with spare organs and such seem to take very little to be killed, unless their name is Worf.

8472 do also have some shapeshifting ability, but as far as we know it is no where near as extensive as the Changelings since we only saw them taking humanoid forms, no small animals, fire or fog as we know Founders can do.

On Seven of Nine's comment, it means little given we have no idea if the Borg have dealt with Founders before Seven was "freed" from the Collective.
 
8472 do also have some shapeshifting ability, but as far as we know it is no where near as extensive as the Changelings since we only saw them taking humanoid forms, no small animals, fire or fog as we know Founders can do.

On Seven of Nine's comment, it means little given we have no idea if the Borg have dealt with Founders before Seven was "freed" from the Collective.

ok cool.

where do they shapeshift??
 
Uh, how do you rate "genetic superiority" and by which criteria?

As far as we know, Betazoids and Denobulans never started a war or committed an act of genocide. If we assume that their genetic makeup makes them less prone to aggressive behavior, I'd argue that those species are "genetically superior" to most others in the Star Trek unverse. Especially Species 8472.
 
Apart from the fact that Species 8472 is probably more resilient than the Founders - Does anyone else think that "genetically superior" is a term that is dangerous at best?
 
Indeed, Genetically Superior....for WHAT?

Life is about survival and breeding. for example, a lot of people of white background have better genes to fight off Smallpox, plague, measles, and other illnesses that struck europe over the years, as those who survived had children. Other groups, such as the natives of North and South America and Africa, did not have such illnesses, and thus in some cases where devastated by these illnesses once exposed to it, (under some estimates, Smallpox and measles killed off 95% of the native populations of North and south america, and is now circled as the reason why the Mississippi culture died) However many African's and those of African background who ancestors have dealt with malaria for generations have become resistant or immune to it, while a European would be much more prone to getting deathly ill over it. (In fact, Sickle Cell anima comes from a mutation that became common as it carriers are resistant/immune to Malaria (I think it Immune, but I can be wrong), but if you have two copies of the gene, you have a hard time getting enough oxygen in the bloodstream.

Or as a "What-if" example, if HIV had gone airborn before the drug cocktail that lets people live with HIV, and everyone was infected, there would be some people who would live, as some European and Asians are immune to HIV, (They think its related to a specific plague resistance) and these people would live on and have kids and humanity would go on. however if there was a "Super-malaria" that infected and killed everyone that was not immune to it, there would be africans who would live.

The key thing is to have enough genetic diversity so that no one illness or predator takes out your entire population.
 
hi folks, i was thinking about this earlier because supposedly 8472 have become involved in the PC game Star Trek: Online. my initial thought was to post this in another section, but i figured this would be the best location because the Founders are so popular.

ok, 7of9 says 8472 are the most advanced biological specimens the borg have ever encountered. does anyone know how they compare to the Founders? i was surprised how easily Laas dealt with that Klingon in S7. surely he couldn't do the same to 8472?

As far as well written, 8472 was not. The destroy the weak or whatev, IS weak. Changelings were much better written, but of course its DS9
 
The Changlings were meant to be a major part of the show and written as thus, plus they had Odo to flesh them out better (so to speak).

The 8472 aliens were just supposed to be one-shots that got too popular since the VOY writers had no intention of doing anything major with them beyond "Scorpion".

Apple and Oranges, folks.

But in battle, the 8472 would win every time.
 
The 8472 aliens were just supposed to be one-shots that got too popular since the VOY writers had no intention of doing anything major with them beyond "Scorpion".
This is patently false; in fact I recall showing you an interview once wherein it was clearly stated that they originally intended to do a lot more with them.


But in battle, the 8472 would win every time.
Well that depends on the parameters of the battle, doesn't it. Founders can survive in open space (see "Chimera" and the fact that Odo was found floating around a nebula or something). 8472 uses ships whereas I don't remember Founder ships ever being seen or mentioned.
 
8472 don't need to breathe either, I remember "Prey" and the 8472 running on the hull.

Either way, the 8472 were never meant to be as huge to VOY as the Founders were too DS9 (Plus, it was possible to tell the big multi-season story in DS9 with the Founders while VOY's premise kept it from telling some big multi-season story with the 8472).
 
the 8472 were never meant to be as huge to VOY as the Founders were too DS9 (Plus, it was possible to tell the big multi-season story in DS9 with the Founders while VOY's premise kept it from telling some big multi-season story with the 8472).

Well that was never in dispute, I never said anything about "multi-season" use. What you said was that they were meant to be "one-shots" and never intended to be used beyond Scorpion, and I said that was false. While they may not have planned for something spanning multiple seasons, the interviewee did state that they had intended to make 8472 a major part of season 4.
 
They WERE a major part of season 4, the season premiere/cliffhanger resolution WAS a major part of it.
 
Actually, no; a season premiere is about 5% of a season. I've never understood why you insist on clinging to preconceptions to the point of attributing obscure meaning to other people's words. You could just accept the simple correction, you know.
 
Can YOU accept that VOY couldn't tell a multi-season story with the 8472 the way DS9 did with the Founders?
 
I accept that I have no evidence to suggest that they had planned to do anything with them beyond season 4. I'm not going to agree that they "could not have" - we're talking about science fiction writers here. Where are you going with this?
 
o_O

8472 do also have some shapeshifting ability, but as far as we know it is no where near as extensive as the Changelings since we only saw them taking humanoid forms, no small animals, fire or fog as we know Founders can do.

On Seven of Nine's comment, it means little given we have no idea if the Borg have dealt with Founders before Seven was "freed" from the Collective.

ok cool.

where do they shapeshift??
Voyager, Season Five, "In the Flesh." The Delta Flyer stumbles upon a Species 8472 space station where they are training to infiltrate Earth by running a simulation of Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco. :borg:
 
I accept that I have no evidence to suggest that they had planned to do anything with them beyond season 4. I'm not going to agree that they "could not have" - we're talking about science fiction writers here. Where are you going with this?

That VOY's premise kept them from being able to tell a story about the 8472 comparable to the Founders role in DS9.
 
Uh, how do you rate "genetic superiority" and by which criteria?

As far as we know, Betazoids and Denobulans never started a war or committed an act of genocide. If we assume that their genetic makeup makes them less prone to aggressive behavior, I'd argue that those species are "genetically superior" to most others in the Star Trek unverse. Especially Species 8472.
isn't aggression something that's considered a huge positive?
 
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