I don't even know what Crusade is!
Not being snarky--I'm just not up on a lot of current TV/movies. Unless it's on Nick Jr.
Not being snarky--I'm just not up on a lot of current TV/movies. Unless it's on Nick Jr.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
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But we're waiting to hear your views on the "kidnapped cat" plotline. Gripping stuff, in desperate need of some TheGodBen attention. It'll be the highlight of my day when you get round to it, I'm certain.
More on topic, I look forward to reading your reviews on DS9, Shatnertage.
Cat from Red Dwarf shows up on Crusade? Awesome!
Wait, you're talking about Danny John-Jules' original cool Cat, right? Not Terry Farrell's lame feral Cat, right?
Cat from Red Dwarf shows up on Crusade? Awesome!
Oh, if only.
Hey, I finally made it back to watch the second half of...
"Emissary"
Well this is fun. Sisko and Dax have entered the wormhole, and it reminds me of Willy Wonka:
Then they end up on a planet and I lose a little bit of the plot (lots of things going on around me when I'm watching this, including keeping the newborn happy and trying to corral the 3 y.o. into pajamas). Dax ends up back on the station, while Sisko is in some kind of dream state.
On the plus side, we get to see some more of Patrick Stewart acting. The scene with him as Locutus in the background as Sisko's on the bridge of the Saratoga is pretty cool, even though he's not acting or anything. On the down side, Jennifer comes dangerously, dangerously close to crossing the "brain and brain what is brain" line with the delivery of questions like "What it linear time?" It's a shame because, at the end, Avery Brooks is absolutely acting his ass off. In a good way. Note: that is pretty much the highest praise I give an actor. For example: Sir Patrick's soliloquy in that production of Hamlet with David Tennant )What if this cursed hand Were thicker than itself with brother's blood, Is there not rain enough in the sweet heavens To wash it white as snow?), in addition to bringing tears to my eyes, elicited that reaction.
My wife made an excellent point that I totally missed. The Wormholers threatened to terminate Sisko, but then they didn't understand the concept of death. What gives?
On the station, the confrontation with the Cardassians was kind of interesting, but I kind of had a feeling they weren't going to destroy the station. Thank God they didn't say "We surrender!" in the pilot. No show that did that could ever gain any kind of traction with the Trek fanbase.
As a self-contained story, "Emissary" isn't the best, but I appreciate that it's setting the scene for the show. After watching, I read the MA article and it really does seem like a space western.
I can't wait to see where they take this premise.
"Emissary"
Well this is fun. Sisko and Dax have entered the wormhole, and it reminds me of Willy Wonka:
Then they end up on a planet and I lose a little bit of the plot (lots of things going on around me when I'm watching this, including keeping the newborn happy and trying to corral the 3 y.o. into pajamas). Dax ends up back on the station, while Sisko is in some kind of dream state.
On the plus side, we get to see some more of Patrick Stewart acting. The scene with him as Locutus in the background as Sisko's on the bridge of the Saratoga is pretty cool, even though he's not acting or anything. On the down side, Jennifer comes dangerously, dangerously close to crossing the "brain and brain what is brain" line with the delivery of questions like "What it linear time?" It's a shame because, at the end, Avery Brooks is absolutely acting his ass off. In a good way. Note: that is pretty much the highest praise I give an actor. For example: Sir Patrick's soliloquy in that production of Hamlet with David Tennant )What if this cursed hand Were thicker than itself with brother's blood, Is there not rain enough in the sweet heavens To wash it white as snow?), in addition to bringing tears to my eyes, elicited that reaction.
My wife made an excellent point that I totally missed. The Wormholers threatened to terminate Sisko, but then they didn't understand the concept of death. What gives?
On the station, the confrontation with the Cardassians was kind of interesting, but I kind of had a feeling they weren't going to destroy the station. Thank God they didn't say "We surrender!" in the pilot. No show that did that could ever gain any kind of traction with the Trek fanbase.
As a self-contained story, "Emissary" isn't the best, but I appreciate that it's setting the scene for the show. After watching, I read the MA article and it really does seem like a space western.
I can't wait to see where they take this premise.
I had a dream last night in which I was wandering around the public library, with Sisko behind me chanting, "It's linear, it's linear, it's linear."
Shat, I'm afraid I'm going to have to blame that on you.
Shat, I'm afraid I'm going to have to blame that on you.
When the Prophets suggested termination, they meant that Sisko should be removed from history entirely so that he never existed. They struggle to understand the concept of death because they can't get their heads around the idea that there is a time when someone exists and a time when someone no longer exists because, for them, both those times are the same. If someone exists, they always exist, and if someone doesn't exist, they never did. That's how they perceive reality.
The Prophets throw up a few good mind-benders like that during the course of the show, it's best just to run with it and try not to get bogged down in the metaphysics.
flemm posted his opinion on Emissary yesterday and I think that he raises some valid points. For someone like me, that knows all the characters and the setting, it's a very good high-concept episode with a strong emotional core for Sisko. But for a new viewer like you, it might not be as enjoyable as you're trying to absorb so much information that it's difficult to enjoy the story. As such, I think that this is a better episode than Caretaker, but probably not as good a pilot.
I can see where he's coming from. My biggest gripe with "Emissary" (and I still think it's a good pilot) is that it shifts gears pretty suddenly when Sisko gets tasked with the quest to find the glowing barbells.
I think it could have benefited from a little more background, particularly clarifying why Starfleet gave the DS9 assignment to a borderline-disaffected officer with a son to care for. Since Riker waved off the captain's chair three times (or was it more), I got the impression Starfleeters go where they want. Particularly after Jake lost his mom, you'd think that any Starfleet HR person with a shred of compassion would give Sisko an assignment a little closer to home until Jake was out of the picture.
Of course, this can all be balanced out by something in Sisko's background making him the best man (or woman) for the job, or someone higher up in Starfleet giving Sisko a little tough love: he's a capable officer who needs to spread his wings. Which is kind of what the Prophets (those were the Prophets in there, right?) were telling him.
It just seems a little odd that the Cardassian Empire (is it an empire? hopefully not an imperial empire) was on Bajor for 60 years and systematically ransacked the planet looking for clues to the barbells and got nowhere. Sisko and Dax don't even have time to unpack and they've discovered a wormhole. I might have missed something but it just seems a little rushed to me.
It could have been explained a little better--like, "there's something strange going on there, but the Cardassians have been unable to find out what's going on. Since we know how to TECH the TECH, it shouldn't be hard for you to figure this out, Commander."
I'm not totally clear whether Starfleet was giving Sisko a very important job to do here, as Picard makes clear, or sending him to the boonies, as Bashir suggests. Dramatically, it makes more sense if it's the latter, and it makes Sisko's redemption all the more sweet.
One other thing--we watched the credits in slo-mo because I wanted to see who did the voice of the station computer, and my wife noticed Tom Hobson was credited as "Young Jake." We know him as Shout on The Fresh Beat Band. Funny.
Anyone have any thoughts on the opening credits? They're definitely a let-down after watching Voyager's for me.
I think it could have benefited from a little more background, particularly clarifying why Starfleet gave the DS9 assignment to a borderline-disaffected officer with a son to care for. Since Riker waved off the captain's chair three times (or was it more), I got the impression Starfleeters go where they want. Particularly after Jake lost his mom, you'd think that any Starfleet HR person with a shred of compassion would give Sisko an assignment a little closer to home until Jake was out of the picture.
Of course, this can all be balanced out by something in Sisko's background making him the best man (or woman) for the job, or someone higher up in Starfleet giving Sisko a little tough love: he's a capable officer who needs to spread his wings. Which is kind of what the Prophets (those were the Prophets in there, right?) were telling him.
It just seems a little odd that the Cardassian Empire (is it an empire? hopefully not an imperial empire) was on Bajor for 60 years and systematically ransacked the planet looking for clues to the barbells and got nowhere. Sisko and Dax don't even have time to unpack and they've discovered a wormhole. I might have missed something but it just seems a little rushed to me.
It could have been explained a little better--like, "there's something strange going on there, but the Cardassians have been unable to find out what's going on. Since we know how to TECH the TECH, it shouldn't be hard for you to figure this out, Commander."
I'm not totally clear whether Starfleet was giving Sisko a very important job to do here, as Picard makes clear, or sending him to the boonies, as Bashir suggests. Dramatically, it makes more sense if it's the latter, and it makes Sisko's redemption all the more sweet.
One other thing--we watched the credits in slo-mo because I wanted to see who did the voice of the station computer, and my wife noticed Tom Hobson was credited as "Young Jake." We know him as Shout on The Fresh Beat Band. Funny.
Anyone have any thoughts on the opening credits? They're definitely a let-down after watching Voyager's for me.
No way, that was Shout? Cool. 
And I can't get "It's a Great Day" out of my head now.
If I'm suffering, the rest of you might as well be, too. Go ahead, click it. I dare ya.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmECD5pv4v8&feature=related[/yt]
If I'm suffering, the rest of you might as well be, too. Go ahead, click it. I dare ya.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmECD5pv4v8&feature=related[/yt]
That's already been stuck in my head for about a year & a half.
ETA: Now the little one is standing here at my elbow, asking me to play the video over and over. Thanks, Shatnertage. I owe ya one.
ETA: Now the little one is standing here at my elbow, asking me to play the video over and over. Thanks, Shatnertage. I owe ya one.
Dax says they have the archives of the monks available, which were hidden from the Cardassians (or they never bothered to check out)
It would certainly have been cool to, at some point,actually see the Cardies trying to figure out the orbs, lost in weird visions that lead them nowhere.
What they did was a bit brief, but effective. Two (I think) of the orbs were found in the Denorios belt, but if that's the only clue the Cardassians had, it's conceivable that Dax and Sisko find the wormhole, based on the records containing location data from the Denorios Belt. It's still strange that Opaka would warn Sisko about the Cardies and how they could destroy it.
But maybe she meant Sisko should be discrete about this search, which was bound to get attention. Not that the Cardassians had actually been looking for the temple for the whole time.
Yeah, that probably sums it up nicely; I agree.
As for the opening credits, Shatnertage, they get an update in season four, and I like that version better. I agree nothing tops Voyager's opening credits, but I grew to very much like DS9's. In the immortal words of an old friend of mine, who decided it needed lyrics:
"Big flying rock...coming at you....herrreeee comes a spaceship. Now there's twoooo....And a thirrrrd spaceship is coming...."
(that only works in the updated version, I think. You don't have spaceships yet, right?)
I got the impression that when Sisko is sent out there, it is a bit of a boonies assignment. Now, its not a "dead end" job, he not being tasked with say, resupplying subspace communication relays, But a standard "shore based" assignment. Important sector wise, but not a plum job, however something that could kickstart him to getting to captain. They sent him a gaggle of younger officers (Bashir, Dax) and found other good members who wanted better family raising then most starships could provide.
However by the end of the episode, it is a very important job,
You're right, the episode could have used more background.
Following Wolf 359, Sisko took on a role as an engineer at the Utopia Planitia Shipyards where he was designing a prototype warship designed to fight the Borg. The project ran into technical problems and it was shelved, so Sisko had to be reassigned. His former commanding officer, Admiral Layton, recommended him for a command role and the job at Bajor had just opened up so that was where he was sent.
DS9 would actually have been a pretty cushy assignment once the damage was repaired as it was only supposed to be a trading/diplomatic outpost in orbit of a beautiful world.
The Cardassians didn't really believe in the Prophets so they probably didn't spend much time, if any, looking for the Celestial Temple. They knew of the Orbs, and stole a few, but they seemed to treat them more as trophies than as objects with real value.
I prefer DS9's theme, but the visuals in the first three seasons are definitely lacking. They revamped it later to show ships coming and going and guys in space-suits doing maintenance, which was not only more visually interesting, but it represented how important DS9 had become on the galaxy's political scene.
Nice to get the background--things make more sense.
A few other things that have been rattling around in my head:
I love the tension between Kira and Bashir, particularly how he shows up and tells her how her home is "in the middle of nowhere." Being born and raised in Atlantic City I'm used to strangers telling me what a shithole my hometown is, so I really connected with her on that.
And a funny moment, again keeping in mind that there's some background infant/toddler din in the house when we're watching. Someone on the station mentioned "Gul Dukat's ship" and my wife says, "Goldilocks? What?"
Right now the theme music itself is kind of underwhelming for me, but maybe it'll grow on me. Like Deranged Nasat's friend, I'll probably be adding lyrics to it. My Voyager lyrics never quite jelled, but I can't hear the TNG theme without thinking of the lyrics--which absolutely ruins TMP for me.
Back to the show, I'm intrigued by the possibility of Quark as a community leader. Though I think I'll probably spend a lot of time saying that I could take him more seriously if he didn't look so goofy. What's the obsession with buttocks in the facial region for Trek main cast aliens? Him, Neelix, and Phlox all have something that looks like a posterior on their face.
But I'll repeat that, as of "Emissary," Armin Shimerman is absolutely dialed in to Quark.
And, reading the credits, I've come up for another great name for a band: "Ferengi Pit Boss."
A few other things that have been rattling around in my head:
I love the tension between Kira and Bashir, particularly how he shows up and tells her how her home is "in the middle of nowhere." Being born and raised in Atlantic City I'm used to strangers telling me what a shithole my hometown is, so I really connected with her on that.
And a funny moment, again keeping in mind that there's some background infant/toddler din in the house when we're watching. Someone on the station mentioned "Gul Dukat's ship" and my wife says, "Goldilocks? What?"
Right now the theme music itself is kind of underwhelming for me, but maybe it'll grow on me. Like Deranged Nasat's friend, I'll probably be adding lyrics to it. My Voyager lyrics never quite jelled, but I can't hear the TNG theme without thinking of the lyrics--which absolutely ruins TMP for me.
Back to the show, I'm intrigued by the possibility of Quark as a community leader. Though I think I'll probably spend a lot of time saying that I could take him more seriously if he didn't look so goofy. What's the obsession with buttocks in the facial region for Trek main cast aliens? Him, Neelix, and Phlox all have something that looks like a posterior on their face.
But I'll repeat that, as of "Emissary," Armin Shimerman is absolutely dialed in to Quark.
And, reading the credits, I've come up for another great name for a band: "Ferengi Pit Boss."
Yep, he (admiral Layton) was going to show up before the pond bit, but Admiral Layton..was on Babylon 5. Apparently, he was double booked by his agent, there was nothing to be done....
(that is a joke with my sig line...)
And now it is time to move on to the past, particularly a...
"Past Prologue"
It's the introduction of Garak, who I vaguely remember as being interesting, and he delivers here. Definitely a lot going on under the surface with him. Like Armin Shimerman, Andrew Robinson seems to have a firm grasp of where he's headed from the start. More Hugh Grant-type stuff from Bashir, too. Seems more clueless than he was last time! Fun.
And then there's a Cardassian ship firing on a Bajoran ship, and we get a Vaughn Armstrong sighting! The scary part is that I didn't even have to see the credits--as soon as he started talking, I said, "Hey, that's Vaughn Armstrong!" I've been watching too much Trek.
Continuing with easing viewers into the new show, we get the inimitable Duras sisters showing up. Again, fun stuff.
The main story has Kira make a choice, between her past and Bajor's future. I think it's done well, though it's a little slow in parts.
I didn't dig Kira going over Sisko's head--she should be much smarter than that. And she looked pretty surprised when Sisko called her on it. Good for him. Any good boss knows chain of command is essential.
My wife's comment when we finally see Garak's shop: "Hey, that must be where Neelix got his clothes."
Speaking of clothes and such, it looks like Kira has a new hairstyle. I definitely didn't like her hair in "Emissary," but I'm not totally sure I like this cut, either. It's a bit severe. If you didn't read my VOY thread, I'll let you know right now hairstyling is one of my pet peeves with Trek, even though I don't put a lot of care into my own hair. Then again, I spent a few months watching VOY, which had a buffet of bad hairstyles. I'm not particularly fond of Bashier's hair here, either--it could use a trim.
Nice scene when Kira confides in Odo.
I've noticed there's a lot of stuff moving on monitors and in windows--they just seem much more dynamic than what I'm used to. For example, there's a scene where we see Odo's security monitors in the background. Looks good.
Besides that, I don't have too much to say. It was a perfectly fine episode.
"Past Prologue"
It's the introduction of Garak, who I vaguely remember as being interesting, and he delivers here. Definitely a lot going on under the surface with him. Like Armin Shimerman, Andrew Robinson seems to have a firm grasp of where he's headed from the start. More Hugh Grant-type stuff from Bashir, too. Seems more clueless than he was last time! Fun.
And then there's a Cardassian ship firing on a Bajoran ship, and we get a Vaughn Armstrong sighting! The scary part is that I didn't even have to see the credits--as soon as he started talking, I said, "Hey, that's Vaughn Armstrong!" I've been watching too much Trek.
Continuing with easing viewers into the new show, we get the inimitable Duras sisters showing up. Again, fun stuff.
The main story has Kira make a choice, between her past and Bajor's future. I think it's done well, though it's a little slow in parts.
I didn't dig Kira going over Sisko's head--she should be much smarter than that. And she looked pretty surprised when Sisko called her on it. Good for him. Any good boss knows chain of command is essential.
My wife's comment when we finally see Garak's shop: "Hey, that must be where Neelix got his clothes."
Speaking of clothes and such, it looks like Kira has a new hairstyle. I definitely didn't like her hair in "Emissary," but I'm not totally sure I like this cut, either. It's a bit severe. If you didn't read my VOY thread, I'll let you know right now hairstyling is one of my pet peeves with Trek, even though I don't put a lot of care into my own hair. Then again, I spent a few months watching VOY, which had a buffet of bad hairstyles. I'm not particularly fond of Bashier's hair here, either--it could use a trim.
Nice scene when Kira confides in Odo.
I've noticed there's a lot of stuff moving on monitors and in windows--they just seem much more dynamic than what I'm used to. For example, there's a scene where we see Odo's security monitors in the background. Looks good.
Besides that, I don't have too much to say. It was a perfectly fine episode.
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