MYTHBUSTERS 6/1: Dodge a Bullet

[Christopher]

A couple of interesting myths this week.

"Dodge a Bullet": An interesting thing to test. I'm not fond of myths about shooting and killing, but this was more a myth about trying to escape death, so that's okay. Plus, given that I write fiction that often involves action and feats of derring-do, it's good to have a baseline for what's humanly feasible in a case like this.

The triggers with the foil on two sides of paper were an interesting idea -- breaking the paper connects the foil on both sides and creates a circuit. Didn't work so well at the point of impact, though -- maybe the bullet hit did too much damage? They seemed to replace it with a sensor just behind the target that was triggered when the bullet pushed the target back, but in the high-speed it looked like there was a delay of a fair number of milliseconds between the bullet hit and the trigger contact.

Still, I guess that wouldn't have affected the result, because it couldn't be done in any realistic case, not unless one had superhuman senses or speed. And these guys had the advantage of knowing they were about to be shot at, and still couldn't pull it off.

Interesting to see about the difference between a realistic muzzle flash and the souped-up Hollywood blank. I guess that stands to reason.

Interesting how Jamie's bullet-dodging motion was so measured and efficient, while Adam's was just flailing around with a ton of wasted motion. That's kinda what you'd expect from the two of them. But what's more interesting is how little difference it actually made to their reaction time.

I liked Adam's description of the 500-yard test distance as "the distance of your average restraining order." An amusingly random analogy.


"Water = Pavement": I'm surprised they're treating this as the myth instead of the opposite. TV and movies, especially cartoons, routinely make the assumption that you can fall any distance into water and come out completely unharmed. If anything, that should be the myth they're testing -- not whether it's equal to hitting pavement, but whether it's survivable vs. fatal.

This seems like the first time in a while that we've seen Buster. Although he really seems to be in decrepit condition nonetheless. Good to see him back to his old tricks, though.

In the category of Sentences I Didn't Expect to Hear Today: "Okay, so the pig is in the helicopter."

The "x-ray the pigs' broken bones" method seemed like a questionable way of comparing the impacts -- there could be random factors affecting the breakage, I'd think. I'm a bit surprised they don't have accelerometers that can read high enough.

And the results were a little inconclusive. Okay, so they established that the force of impact is less for water than for pavement. But as is so often the case with these three, they seem so fixated on taking the quantities literally that they're overlooking the deeper questions. Granted the force would be less, but would it be survivable? Again, I think what they should've been testing here is the cartoon/movie myth that water can cushion a fall from a great height. Clearly you'd sustain broken bones and couldn't just swim away unharmed. But could you survive the impact at all, live through it if you got prompt medical treatment after landing? That's what I want to know.

 

[Gepard]

I liked Adam's description of the 500-yard test distance as "the distance of your average restraining order." An amusingly random analogy.

Given the myth is about one person doing harm to another at a distance (or the avoidance thereof), I thought it was rather appropriate.

 

[Forbin]

Another aspect of the high fall that simply X-raying for broken bones doesn't cover, is things like organ trauma, brain trauma, etc. Not to put too fine a point on it, but recovery crews at the trade Center on 9/11 described the condition of people who leapt and landed on the pavement as "landing like water balloons." Did landing in water cause such organ damage? Without opening up the pig-bags and doing real necropsies, that's an aspect we won't know.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I was surprised in the sense of completeness they didn't try to find a ringer in terms of reaction time, maybe some young athlete. They go so over-the-top in other ways, why not?

 

[Forbin]

Oh - basic gun safety - blanks or no, I sure hope Adam wasn't aiming that hi-powered sniper rifle RIGHT AT Jamie when he pulled the trigger.

I speak from personal experience when I say it's amazing how a live round can sneak into your gun when it seems impossible for a live round to have snuck into your gun.

 

[Trekker4747]

Found this to be a really enjoyable episode.

First the Jamie/Adam myth:

An interesting one and fun one to test and it's really amazing to see the numbers of all of this laid out and given comparative situations, things like seeing the length of time it'd take a bullet to cross a given distance, human reaction times and what was really cool was seeing how real-world modern-day snipers have to operate. It makes sense when told it but I had never considered that a sniper would have to aim well above his target when shooting over a long distance, like in the longest test shot (close to a kilometer, IIRC) had to aimed several feet over the target in order for the shot to make a kill-hit.

It's not surprising that the muzzle flash of a sniper-rifle (a method of shooting all about concealment) wouldn't be much of anything, interesting to see the differences between it and the "Hollywood round." Adam's paintball/foil rig for the final test was also pretty nifty. And, yeah, it would've been interesting to see someone who's got heightened reflexes due to athletic, martial-arts or other training to see how they'd react.

Junior Mythbusters:

Another fun one and good to see them doing a "real" test as opposed to Hollywood/internet one. But it's another case of them taking the letter of the phrase too literally. I never assumed the "like hitting concrete" phrase was to imply it was exactly like hitting concrete but just that hitting water wouldn't necessarily be any safer than hitting solid ground. All of the impacts Buster took and the impact the pig took into the water may not have been as severe as the impacts with the ground but it'd still be a fatal impact. The X-Ray guy at the end said the water pig suffered neck fractures which may not be internal decapitation but it'd still most likely be fatal to its victim or at the very least crippling.

I found it interesting that given everything we've seen them do with pigs (notably the Stinky Car myth in the first season) and other meat-based items (like "meat-man" in the bell-suit decompression myth) that this was a case where it was decided that two dead pigs, originally destined to be used as food, had to be concealed. Seemed over the top given everything they've done before and that the pigs are fucking food, dead and animals. And Kari, I love you, but it's past time you get over yourself and the whole "meat thing" you've done this show long enough, and you've lived long enough, you should be able to deal with it.

Oh - basic gun safety - blanks or no, I sure hope Adam wasn't aiming that hi-powered sniper rifle RIGHT AT Jamie when he pulled the trigger.

I speak from personal experience when I say it's amazing how a live round can sneak into your gun when it seems impossible for a live round to have snuck into your gun.

I'm guess elaborate safety measures are taken during the course of production that we're otherwise not privy to. If you personally see yourself put a single blank into an ammo magazine for a gun with no round chambered and the right afterwards fire the gun or are in possession of it it's impossible for a live round to "sneak into" the gun.


Good, fun, episode and shows that there's still a strong pulse in this series.

 

[Christopher]

...what was really cool was seeing how real-world modern-day snipers have to operate. It makes sense when told it but I had never considered that a sniper would have to aim well above his target when shooting over a long distance, like in the longest test shot (close to a kilometer, IIRC) had to aimed several feet over the target in order for the shot to make a kill-hit.

Having taken archery in high school (not to mention physics), it doesn't surprise me. Archers have to aim above the target too, because of gravity. Bullets go faster, so it takes a longer distance for gravity to affect their trajectories, but they're still falling from the moment they leave the barrel (as the Mythbusters have shown before).

And while it was objectively interesting to learn about the science and logistics that go into achieving a sniper's aim, it's for a horrible purpose. It's hard for me to get too enthusiastic about the gun myths, because I can't forget what guns do to people. And what snipers do is even more disturbing to me, because of the concealment of the attacker and the helplessness of the victim. It's a very frightening notion, and it just seems so... unfair. It's like cheating, to end someone's life without even giving them the chance to know they're in danger or to defend themselves. So I was kind of hoping that this myth would turn out to be plausible, that someone could have a chance of escaping this kind of attack.

Adam's paintball/foil rig for the final test was also pretty nifty.

Yes, that was extremely clever.

And, yeah, it would've been interesting to see someone who's got heightened reflexes due to athletic, martial-arts or other training to see how they'd react.

They already tried something like that in one of the ninja episodes -- brought in that guy calling himself an expert ninja and testing whether he could catch an arrow. As I recall, he didn't do so well. Given enough warning and enough practice, he could occasionally catch an arrow. But the necessary reaction time for dodging a bullet would probably be a lot smaller. I doubt any human without superpowers could pull it off.

Another fun one and good to see them doing a "real" test as opposed to Hollywood/internet one. But it's another case of them taking the letter of the phrase too literally. I never assumed the "like hitting concrete" phrase was to imply it was exactly like hitting concrete but just that hitting water wouldn't necessarily be any safer than hitting solid ground. All of the impacts Buster took and the impact the pig took into the water may not have been as severe as the impacts with the ground but it'd still be a fatal impact.

I agree completely. Too much focus on the letter of the myth at the expense of the substance.

I found it interesting that given everything we've seen them do with pigs (notably the Stinky Car myth in the first season) and other meat-based items (like "meat-man" in the bell-suit decompression myth) that this was a case where it was decided that two dead pigs, originally destined to be used as food, had to be concealed. Seemed over the top given everything they've done before and that the pigs are fucking food, dead and animals.

I think it was less about what the viewers (or Kari) might see and more about not having to clean it up afterward. There might've been some health regulations violated if they splattered pig corpses all over a public parking lot or pond.

Besides, having the experience of Stinky Car under their belts (that was Adam & Jamie, but Kari & Tory may have been around during it), they probably didn't want to have to subject themselves to the ick and the smell for no reason.

And Kari, I love you, but it's past time you get over yourself and the whole "meat thing" you've done this show long enough, and you've lived long enough, you should be able to deal with it.

Now, that's hardly fair. Would you say the same about Adam's or Grant's seasickness? That's not something you can "get over" with experience, so why should Kari's reaction to meat be any different? She is a vegetarian, you know. And personally I sympathize more with her reaction than the others' sometimes cavalier treatment of dead animals. I'm still upset at Grant for mechanizing a real cat corpse that one time.

 

[Trekker4747]

And while it was objectively interesting to learn about the science and logistics that go into achieving a sniper's aim, it's for a horrible purpose. It's hard for me to get too enthusiastic about the gun myths, because I can't forget what guns do to people. And what snipers do is even more disturbing to me, because of the concealment of the attacker and the helplessness of the victim. It's a very frightening notion, and it just seems so... unfair. It's like cheating, to end someone's life without even giving them the chance to know they're in danger or to defend themselves. So I was kind of hoping that this myth would turn out to be plausible, that someone could have a chance of escaping this kind of attack.

Considering most sniper situations are in military or law-enforcement applications I don't see the problem with snipers considering the "greater good" it's done for.

Now, that's hardly fair. Would you say the same about Adam's or Grant's seasickness? That's not something you can "get over" with experience, so why should Kari's reaction to meat be any different? She is a vegetarian, you know. And personally I sympathize more with her reaction than the others' sometimes cavalier treatment of dead animals. I'm still upset at Grant for mechanizing a real cat corpse that one time.

Grant and Adam's seasickness is an actual medical problem with real causes and effects, but I do wonder why they don't use the ginger pills they claimed worked well for the condition a few seasons ago. Kari's reaction to them using animal portions for their various experiments amounts to "Ew. Ick!" And, well, I've little sympathy or respect for vegetarians.

The guys can all be a bit cavalier towards the animal remains they use, sure, but when it gets boiled down to things they're still animals and dead animals at that. I don't recall the "Robo-Kitty" being from a dead cat, I thought it was from a doll or something, but it's been a while since I've seen that episode. If it was a real cat I could see the problem with that but only because as human beings, and American human beings at that, we've affixed emotions to domesticated animals.

I also say all of this as someone who works around meat and animal parts as a living so I'm obviously more indifferent to the whole subject. But Kari's constant reactions (more so the producer's use of her reactions) to the teams' use of animal products gets to be a bit much sometimes, they've experiments to do and there's only so many ways they can get the results and information they need and want. For me when the guys are pulling a whole pig out of the back of a van and Kari standing there 3-feet away dry-heaving and being dramatic it's a touch.... annoying. Kari's a 30+ year old woman and recently went through an experience with all manner of smells and body-fluids coming out of her own body, she's been doing the show long enough that she should be some-what used to this stuff (and she would've been there for the "Stinky Car" experiment as she was in the Lawnchair Balloon and most memorably in the Airplane Toilet/Suction pilot/S1 episodes as one of the M5 employees we see/hear in the background.)

I still really like Kari but I'm just annoyed by people who over-react in situations involving meat and animal carcasses, vegetarian or not.

 

[Forbin]

Oh - basic gun safety - blanks or no, I sure hope Adam wasn't aiming that hi-powered sniper rifle RIGHT AT Jamie when he pulled the trigger.

I speak from personal experience when I say it's amazing how a live round can sneak into your gun when it seems impossible for a live round to have snuck into your gun.

I'm guess elaborate safety measures are taken during the course of production that we're otherwise not privy to. If you personally see yourself put a single blank into an ammo magazine for a gun with no round chambered and the right afterwards fire the gun or are in possession of it it's impossible for a live round to "sneak into" the gun.

One would like to think so, but alas, it's not impossible. People are only human. And I and my friends have bullet holes in our walls to attest to that.

Hence firearms safety rule number one - Always treat a gun as if it's loaded, and NEVER point it at at anything or anyone you wouldn't want shot.

 

[Christopher]

Considering most sniper situations are in military or law-enforcement applications I don't see the problem with snipers considering the "greater good" it's done for.

I'm sure that the people who actually have to kill other human beings in the line of duty, however necessary, still find it troubling to do so and would prefer it if they never had to. Even if it serves some "greater good," the ending of a human life is a grave, tragic, and regrettable thing, and we should NEVER forget that, lest we become too casual in dealing out death. I'm not saying I don't recognize the regrettable necessity in some situations -- I'm saying I can't have fun or feel much enthusiasm thinking about it, because it's for a very solemn and unfortunate purpose.

Grant and Adam's seasickness is an actual medical problem with real causes and effects, but I do wonder why they don't use the ginger pills they claimed worked well for the condition a few seasons ago. Kari's reaction to them using animal portions for their various experiments amounts to "Ew. Ick!" And, well, I've little sympathy or respect for vegetarians.

That's a shockingly petty and intolerant attitude. What gives you the right to disrespect people just because they don't share your dietary preferences? A lot of people are vegetarian because it's healthier, or because it's better for the environment than eating meat. A lot of people are vegetarian for religious reasons, including nearly half the population of India. Are you saying that an entire religion, an entire ancient civilization, is inferior to you just because they don't eat meat?

And for the record, my own aunt is a vegetarian, and I have leanings that way myself. So I'm deeply offended.

I still really like Kari but I'm just annoyed by people who over-react in situations involving meat and animal carcasses, vegetarian or not.

So you're annoyed by the fact that other people don't think or react the same way you do??? Good grief... I'm walking away from this conversation before I say anything I regret.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Interesting to see about the difference between a realistic muzzle flash and the souped-up Hollywood blank. I guess that stands to reason.

Muzzle flash pretty much depends on what propellant load you have in your cartridges. Hollywood does like to to use powder loads designed for larger, more visual, flashes.

 

[Trekker4747]

It's all IMHO, of course. If someone doesn't eat meat, or types of meat, due to medical or religious beliefs is one thing, but because of an "ick factor" I find that hard to go along with. Everyone is entitled to how they want to eat and what they want to eat and that's fine. I don't have to agree with it.

Nor do I personally like the theatrics some people show when around their disliked food. I, for one, hate seafood but I don't go into theatrics or convulsions when I'm around it, when people eat it around me or when friends want to eat and restaurants that feature the stuff. Ate at a seafood centered restaurant with some buddies last weekend, the place smelled, strongly, of cooking seafood which I don't care for. I still ate there, had a good time, and got a steak off the palce's menu, all my buddies had seafood dishes.

As an American I'm not one who eats animals we've domesticated, animals that are consumed in other countries, were I to find myself in those countries I wouldn't be bothered by butcher shops or places that specialize in those types of meat because I understand that that is what they eat. So my problem is more the "theatrics" of Kari's reaction to the pigs (again, things they've used several times to do tests) than her actual dis-like for eating meat.

Keep in mind this same woman was featured in a previous episode's bumper holding a decapitated fish head (used for chumming shark-infested waters) and moving it's mouth while saying the "Coming up..." line. So between that and her theatrics/dry-heaving over a couple of pig carcasses is a bit inconsistent.

 

[Forbin]

I hate seafood too. One night out, my veggie brother-in-law tried to make me feel guilty about my steak, and then used a little squid from his plate to do a little puppet show. A complete squid. He stuck it in his mouth and wiggled the tentacles at me. Still not sure how he thought that was less disgusting than eating a slab of cow.

 

[Thestral]

.... he was vegetarian and had squid? Vegetarian FAIL

 

[Forbin]

.... he was vegetarian and had squid? Vegetarian FAIL

Yeah, he doesn't consider seafood or fowl to be "meat."

 

[paudemge]

.... he was vegetarian and had squid? Vegetarian FAIL

Yeah, he doesn't consider seafood or fowl to be "meat."

Are you a vegetarian?
(wiping bbq sauce from my mouth) Not in the strictest definition.

 

[Checkmate]

So you're annoyed by the fact that other people don't think or react the same way you do??? Good grief... I'm walking away from this conversation before I say anything I regret.

Why? Because you're annoyed by the fact that other people don't think or react the same way you do???

 

[Thestral]

.... he was vegetarian and had squid? Vegetarian FAIL

Yeah, he doesn't consider seafood or fowl to be "meat."

Lord, those people are annoying. If you wanna be vegetarian, more power to you. But don't call yourself vegetarian if you're still eating entire phyla of animals.

 

[Sephiroth]

.... he was vegetarian and had squid? Vegetarian FAIL

Yeah, he doesn't consider seafood or fowl to be "meat."

so he only won't eat the cute ones, eh? I blame Disney

 

[Forbin]

.... he was vegetarian and had squid? Vegetarian FAIL

Yeah, he doesn't consider seafood or fowl to be "meat."

Lord, those people are annoying. If you wanna be vegetarian, more power to you. But don't call yourself vegetarian if you're still eating entire phyla of animals.

I like the "entire phyla" remark, I'll have to use that on him sometime.