Spectre of the Gun -- Why no Sulu?

[c0rnedfr0g]

So while watching Spectre of the Gun, it occurred to me that Sulu really should've been in this episode instead of Chekov (whom I found rather annoying). I mean, Old West, revolvers... Shore Leave and The Naked Time already established Sulu as a swashbuckling/gun enthusiast-type.

I think the creators really missed a good opportunity for Sulu's character with this one.

Thoughts?

 

[BDJ]

I'm not sure but I think Takei was away filming "The Green Berets" with John Wayne at the time. That's why there are several episodes with Chekov only. I've not checked the episode production dates, so I'm just going based on (usually faulty) memory.

 

[Kamdan]

That was only during the second season. A prime example is that Chekov's dialogue in The Trouble with Tribbles was originally supposed to be for Sulu. He knew about quadrotriticale, because he was a botanist.

 

[Botany Bay]

So while watching Spectre of the Gun, it occurred to me that Sulu really should've been in this episode instead of Chekov (whom I found rather annoying). I mean, Old West, revolvers... Shore Leave and The Naked Time already established Sulu as a swashbuckling/gun enthusiast-type.

I think the creators really missed a good opportunity for Sulu's character with this one.

Thoughts?

This episode was written by Gene Coon, who had a noticeable preference for using Chekov at every opportunity over Sulu.

I smell an untold story here actually. I wonder if an infuriated Coon relegated Sulu/Takei after hearing of his plan to take time off to shoot a movie, or whether a frustrated Takei felt he had nothing much to lose if Coon fired him, so he decided to look for bigger and better things in film. Or, maybe Coon just thought Koenig was a better actor.

Anyway, if you watch TOS in production order in a short timeframe on DVD, you'll be surprised just how minor Sulu's role really was on TOS.

 

[marksound]

Anyway, if you watch TOS in production order in a short timeframe on DVD, you'll be surprised just how minor Sulu's role really was on TOS.

Not according to Takei.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Anyway, if you watch TOS in production order in a short timeframe on DVD, you'll be surprised just how minor Sulu's role really was on TOS.

Not according to Takei.

"We were an ensemble."

 

[JRoss]

Takei would have had a greater part in Trek, but Shatner hindered him. An example would be when in STVI Shatner demanded that the script be changed so that Kirk saved the day instead of Sulu. Remember how the Excelsior was on gaseous charting mission or whatever? The whole "modify a torpedo with gas sensors" idea was supposed to be Sulu's.

There's a reason that Shatner was the only cast member not invited to Takei's wedding.

I don't think that Valter is a better actor than George. He's okay, I guess, but mostly he just rolled his eyes and showed off his wery cheesy Monkees hair.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Anyway, if you watch TOS in production order in a short timeframe on DVD, you'll be surprised just how minor Sulu's role really was on TOS.

Not according to Takei.

"We were an ensemble."

Did he really say that?? Wow.

Takei would have had a greater part in Trek, but Shatner hindered him.

Oh, please. He's been crying that shit for damn near half a century and I'm tired of hearing it. He was a spear carrier. He needs to reconcile himself to that fact. Koenig has.

 

[Maurice]

Takei would have had a greater part in Trek, but Shatner hindered him. An example would be when in STVI Shatner demanded that the script be changed so that Kirk saved the day instead of Sulu. Remember how the Excelsior was on gaseous charting mission or whatever? The whole "modify a torpedo with gas sensors" idea was supposed to be Sulu's.

There's a reason that Shatner was the only cast member not invited to Takei's wedding.

I don't think that Valter is a better actor than George. He's okay, I guess, but mostly he just rolled his eyes and showed off his wery cheesy Monkees hair.

Completely untrue. The shooting script for TUC included lines indicating the Enterprise also had equipment for "cataloging planetary atmospheres", as so:

41 INT. R DECK CORRIDOR 41

leaving the Enterprise Science Labs...

GORKON
Your research laboratory is most
impressive...

KIRK
Starfleet's been charting and
cataloging planetary atmospheres.
All vessels are equipped with
chemical analytic sensors...

GORKON
This cannot be easy for you,
Captain...
(off the look)
I would feel awkward if I had to
give you a tour of OUR vessel...

The man's courtesy makes Kirk feel guilty...

KIRK
Would you care to go topside?

CHANG
Very much.

CHEKOV
(pulling Kirk aside)
Captain, you're not going to show
them the bridge??

KIRK
(clenched teeth)
Full diplomatic courtesy, Mr.
Chekov...

The party passes Uhura and a YOUNGER
CREWMAN.

YOUNGER CREWMAN
Would you want your daughter to
marry one?

 

[Steve67]

A prime example is that Chekov's dialogue in The Trouble with Tribbles was originally supposed to be for Sulu. He knew about quadrotriticale, because he was a botanist.

I'm glad Chekov got to read that line, because no one could top the way he says: "Hey, it's eating my grain."

Nice to see Spectre of the Gun getting another thread, as it's among my all-time favorite episodes.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Takei would have had a greater part in Trek, but Shatner hindered him. An example would be when in STVI Shatner demanded that the script be changed so that Kirk saved the day instead of Sulu. Remember how the Excelsior was on gaseous charting mission or whatever? The whole "modify a torpedo with gas sensors" idea was supposed to be Sulu's.

There's a reason that Shatner was the only cast member not invited to Takei's wedding.

I don't think that Valter is a better actor than George. He's okay, I guess, but mostly he just rolled his eyes and showed off his wery cheesy Monkees hair.

Completely untrue. The shooting script for TUC included lines indicating the Enterprise also had equipment for "cataloging planetary atmospheres", as so:

41 INT. R DECK CORRIDOR 41

leaving the Enterprise Science Labs...

GORKON
Your research laboratory is most
impressive...

KIRK
Starfleet's been charting and
cataloging planetary atmospheres.
All vessels are equipped with
chemical analytic sensors...

GORKON
This cannot be easy for you,
Captain...
(off the look)
I would feel awkward if I had to
give you a tour of OUR vessel...

The man's courtesy makes Kirk feel guilty...

KIRK
Would you care to go topside?

CHANG
Very much.

CHEKOV
(pulling Kirk aside)
Captain, you're not going to show
them the bridge??

KIRK
(clenched teeth)
Full diplomatic courtesy, Mr.
Chekov...

The party passes Uhura and a YOUNGER
CREWMAN.

YOUNGER CREWMAN
Would you want your daughter to
marry one?

Not to mention that Spock came up with the plasma/gas conection and Uhura came up with using the equipment they had to modify their weapons.

 

[scotpens]

A prime example is that Chekov's dialogue in The Trouble with Tribbles was originally supposed to be for Sulu. He knew about quadrotriticale, because he was a botanist.

I'm glad Chekov got to read that line, because no one could top the way he says: "Hey, it's eating my grain."

Also, even though it would have made sense for Sulu to know about quadrotriticale because of his interest in botany, it was funnier for Chekov to claim it was "a Russian inwention."

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

I seem to remember an article somewhere that Roddenberry wanted to highlight Chekov more during the third season because he was popular with the "bubblegum set." Making Chekov a "captain-in-training" role and have him accompany the landing parties more. But the change of time slot to Fridays 10pm and the resulting line producer change put the kabosh on that idea. I also seem to remember Walter Koenig say he felt "Spectre of the Gun" (being written for the first show in production that season) was "indicative" of how they wanted to increase Chekov's role in the stories.

 

[Timewalker]

Both Sulu and Chekov were good characters, and the actors did their jobs well. I can't imagine Walter Koenig playing a swashbuckling D'Artagnan in "The Naked Time" and I can't imagine George Takei pulling off that bar scene in "The Trouble With Tribbles." When Scotty and Chekov argue the merits of their favorite drinks, Chekov says: "Scotch? Eet vas inwented by a liddle old lady from Leningrad!"

How could Sulu top that line?

 

[plynch]

Sulu in the long run including the movies, wins. He is cooler. But Chekov is certainly featured in more ep.s. Tribbles, yes, "Way to Eden," "The Apple," "Gamesters." Other than shooting the gun on Shore Leave and fencing in The Naked Time, was Sulu ever featured? Riley was featured more than he. Never noticed that, really.

I forgot to address the OP. I never ever considered Sulu instead of Chekov. Chekov gets annoying, but has more personality than Sulu. Would've been interesting, but they were definitely writing way more for Chekov then.

 

[Steve67]

I seem to remember an article somewhere that Roddenberry wanted to highlight Chekov more during the third season because he was popular with the "bubblegum set."

Koenig's Davy Jones-inspired potential was something I asked about in the Walter Koenig: Teen Idol? thread (including a hilarious response that still makes me chuckle when I think about it).

As far as Sulu vs. Chekov, I felt that ol' Pavel had a more amusing way about him and the Russocentricity he had. I like how Kirk mentions to Sulu in That Which Survives: "Mr. Sulu, if I wanted a lesson in Russian history, I'd have brought Mr. Chekov." IIRC, Chekov isn't even in the episode.

I also like how Sulu and Chekov would react to something happening on the bridge by merely exchanging glances. I always got the impression that the two were supposed to be fairly close friends.

 

[RAMA]

Thankfully Takei was spared his episode.

 

[Pauln6]

Takei would have had a greater part in Trek, but Shatner hindered him. An example would be when in STVI Shatner demanded that the script be changed so that Kirk saved the day instead of Sulu. Remember how the Excelsior was on gaseous charting mission or whatever? The whole "modify a torpedo with gas sensors" idea was supposed to be Sulu's.

There's a reason that Shatner was the only cast member not invited to Takei's wedding.

I don't think that Valter is a better actor than George. He's okay, I guess, but mostly he just rolled his eyes and showed off his wery cheesy Monkees hair.

Completely untrue. The shooting script for TUC included lines indicating the Enterprise also had equipment for "cataloging planetary atmospheres", as so:

41 INT. R DECK CORRIDOR 41

leaving the Enterprise Science Labs...

GORKON
Your research laboratory is most
impressive...

KIRK
Starfleet's been charting and
cataloging planetary atmospheres.
All vessels are equipped with
chemical analytic sensors...

GORKON
This cannot be easy for you,
Captain...
(off the look)
I would feel awkward if I had to
give you a tour of OUR vessel...

The man's courtesy makes Kirk feel guilty...

KIRK
Would you care to go topside?

CHANG
Very much.

CHEKOV
(pulling Kirk aside)
Captain, you're not going to show
them the bridge??

KIRK
(clenched teeth)
Full diplomatic courtesy, Mr.
Chekov...

The party passes Uhura and a YOUNGER
CREWMAN.

YOUNGER CREWMAN
Would you want your daughter to
marry one?

Not to mention that Spock came up with the plasma/gas conection and Uhura came up with using the equipment they had to modify their weapons.

Apparently it was originally going to be Rand who came up with the idea of using the torpedoes and lets not forget that Sulu is a physicist.

While I love the TOS, I do get a bit irritated when the writers feel that the main cast (especially the big 3) has to do everything whether outside their field or not. McCoy assisting on the torpedo instead of any one of the qualified engineers on the ship for example (and Spock for that matter, although Spock does at least have some established engineering ability). I don't think the scene added anything to either character and it suspended disbelief a bit too much for me.

Conversely, we had experienced officers like Uhura and Chekov appearing to be hopeless in their established fields for a cheap laugh.

 

[WisTrekFan]

So while watching Spectre of the Gun, it occurred to me that Sulu really should've been in this episode instead of Chekov (whom I found rather annoying). I mean, Old West, revolvers... Shore Leave and The Naked Time already established Sulu as a swashbuckling/gun enthusiast-type.

I think the creators really missed a good opportunity for Sulu's character with this one.

Thoughts?

This episode was written by Gene Coon, who had a noticeable preference for using Chekov at every opportunity over Sulu.

I smell an untold story here actually. I wonder if an infuriated Coon relegated Sulu/Takei after hearing of his plan to take time off to shoot a movie, or whether a frustrated Takei felt he had nothing much to lose if Coon fired him, so he decided to look for bigger and better things in film. Or, maybe Coon just thought Koenig was a better actor.

Anyway, if you watch TOS in production order in a short timeframe on DVD, you'll be surprised just how minor Sulu's role really was on TOS.

Another example of featuring Chekov over Sulu is in Spock's Brain, particularly in the discussion on the bridge between Kirk, Chekov, Sulu and Uhura regarding where Spock's brain could have been taken. Chekov has a much more prominent part in that scene. Kirk actually seems kind of dismissive of Sulu's ideas. Later in the episode, Chekov even goes along with the landing party.