Spoilers DTI: Watching the Clock by C. L. Bennett Review Thread

[Glitch]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Also there's at least one author named Christopher Pike.

I liked his last book, tantalizingly entitled BEEP BOOP.

I hope you see what I did there.

 

[James Cole]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

You're looking at it the wrong way.

Spoiler: The 24th & 1/2th Century's social mores

You're thinking of the gay marriage issue in contemporary terms, as an ongoing debate between two large segments of society with good people on both sides, who each have philosophical reasons for supporting the side they support. But by the 24th Century, it's NOT an ongoing debate anymore -- it's a settled fact of social mores that gay people can marry and it's not a thing. To Clare's relatives, her being opposed to same-sex marriage is the equivalent of someone being opposed to equal rights for Catholics or freedom for black people -- it's not only settled that Catholics have equal rights as Protestants and that black people are free human beings, but it's been settled for so long that the idea that anyone would seriously disagree seems alien and absurd. This isn't Obama vs. McCain or even Bush vs. Gore -- this is Elizabeth vs. Mary.

Spoiler

It's literally ancient history to them -- we know from the ENT Relaunch novels that same-sex marriages were already a normal, accepted part of life on Earth by the 2150s, so it's been over two hundred years since anyone on Earth seriously opposed same-sex marriages. So to them, this isn't a matter of ongoing political dispute to which the opposing side is entitled democratic courtesy -- this is literally the equivalent of someone from the 1600s showing up and saying that she's uncomfortable living next door to a "papist" or that black people ought to be enslaved.

Spoiler: Continued

Further, you're also mis-construing the attitudes expressed by Clare's family. The text makes it very clear that they DON'T treat her with disrespect, and that they're willing to treat her with affection and respect even when they think her attitudes are very outdated.

Spoiler

And furthermore, being tolerant is a meaningless phrase -- everyone is tolerant of *something.* What matters is what it is one is tolerant *of.* Being tolerant of a diversity of sexual orientation, for instance, does not imply an obligation to be tolerant of intolerance of sexual diversity. Being tolerant of a diversity of political opinions does not imply an obligation to be tolerant of *all* political opinions -- in fact, in a true democracy, people would have an obligation to be intolerant of any political philosophy that seeks to take away rights from their fellow citizens, since doing so inherently undermines the entire concept of democracy. Any democracy by definition can only be tolerant of a certain spectrum of political opinions -- those opinions which rest on the premise that all people are equal and free and have certain inalienable rights which cannot be taken away. A genuine democrat (lowercase-D) has no obligation to be tolerant of opinions like, "Black people should be in chains" or "Gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry," even if she has an obligation to allow such ideas free expression.

Spoiler

While I agree that a STAR TREK book ought to treat the CHARACTER of Clare with respect, I utterly reject the idea that the narrative or that other characters are obligated to treat all of her beliefs with respect. In the 1960s, the question of whether or not blacks should have equal rights was an on-going political debate, and there were good people on both sides of the issue. But that didn't stop the creators of TOS from including scenes where racial prejudices were denounced as outmoded, primitive thinking. There are plenty of good people who oppose same-sex marriage, but they're *wrong,* and while those *people* are entitled to respect and tolerance, not all of their opinions are. A franchise that advocates for equal rights, like STAR TREK, has no philosophical obligation to treat a philosophy of discrimination, which is what opposition to same-sex marriage is, with respect. The character, yes; the idea, no. Clare wasn't sent to an indoctrination camp. She saw what a society that embraces equal rights for LGBT persons looks like, and she realized that she had been wrong, that's all.

Ok, that passage came across to me a little heavy handed and it seemed the gay marriage issue was linked in with the other political/social issues Clare was having referenced on the previous page. I interpreted it more as commentary of today (where winning that argument requires bringing more people over to the other side) than the 24th century future of Star Trek. And I certainly have no issue with showing that marriage rights would be a settled issue 400 years from now!

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Also there's at least one author named Christopher Pike.

That's a pen name-- and it's a deliberate reference.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I’ve now posted the annotations pages for DTI: Watching the Clock at my website. And yes, I mean pages, plural. There was so much science, Trek continuity, and the like to explain that the page-by-page annotations had to be split across two pages. Plus there’s a separate page devoted to discussing the characters and their development (since most of the characters here are original or developed from barely-established screen roles), and there’s even a page featuring many of the alien calendars I developed for the chapter headings (because I can be really obsessive-compulsive about things like this).

All these goodies can be accessed from the DTI intro section on my main Trek Fiction page:

http://home.fuse.net/ChristopherLBennett/Trekfiction.html#DTIWTC

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Yay! I always look forward to these. I'm particular fascinated by the calendar work. Thanks for linking/posting.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Cool, thanks for posting the link. It actually already answered a question I was about to post the other day.

 

[Idran]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I do have a question about the book that popped to mind just the other day.

Spoiler: About the Grid

You mentioned in your annotations that you couldn't find any instances of future time travel that would contradict the grid, but what about Henry Starling in the timepod that ends up blowing up Earth in the 29th century? How did he get through the grid? I can't imagine he sent an authorization signal or whatever the grid would require, nor could I imagine that just being in a 29th century Federation timeship would be enough if something as simple as a miscalibration could cause such a devastating effect. Let alone the havoc someone in a stolen ship, or even a museum relic from uptime, could cause.

I hate picking at it, though, because I thought this book was amazing. Every description of temporal physics you had in the book just clicked for me, I thought it was an amazing way of bringing together all the disparate threads of time travel throughout the series'. And I'd been looking forward to a full novel based on the DTI since I first heard it announced months ago; I thought it was the perfect conception of them as an organization. I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already, but suffice it to say I thought it was an extremely well-written book.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I do have a question about the book that popped to mind just the other day.

Spoiler: About the Grid

You mentioned in your annotations that you couldn't find any instances of future time travel that would contradict the grid, but what about Henry Starling in the timepod that ends up blowing up Earth in the 29th century? How did he get through the grid? I can't imagine he sent an authorization signal or whatever the grid would require, nor could I imagine that just being in a 29th century Federation timeship would be enough if something as simple as a miscalibration could cause such a devastating effect. Let alone the havoc someone in a stolen ship, or even a museum relic from uptime, could cause.

Whoops. I guess I overlooked that one.

Spoiler: answer

Although I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that Starling sent a clearance signal. After all, he had 29 years to study the pod and reverse-engineer its technology. And since the pod was returning to its home time rather than intruding from another, the clearance involved might've been simpler and more automatic, enough that Starling could pass himself off as an authorized pilot without needing to do too much reprogramming.

And it's hard to believe that a simple miscalibration could be enough to cause an explosion on such a scale. There may have been more details Braxton was leaving out so as to minimize "spoilers" for Janeway and Chakotay, or else his mental state made him an unreliable narrator.

I hate picking at it, though, because I thought this book was amazing. Every description of temporal physics you had in the book just clicked for me, I thought it was an amazing way of bringing together all the disparate threads of time travel throughout the series'. And I'd been looking forward to a full novel based on the DTI since I first heard it announced months ago; I thought it was the perfect conception of them as an organization. I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already, but suffice it to say I thought it was an extremely well-written book.

Thank you!

 

[BrotherBenny]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I do have a question about the book that popped to mind just the other day.

Spoiler: About the Grid

You mentioned in your annotations that you couldn't find any instances of future time travel that would contradict the grid, but what about Henry Starling in the timepod that ends up blowing up Earth in the 29th century? How did he get through the grid? I can't imagine he sent an authorization signal or whatever the grid would require, nor could I imagine that just being in a 29th century Federation timeship would be enough if something as simple as a miscalibration could cause such a devastating effect. Let alone the havoc someone in a stolen ship, or even a museum relic from uptime, could cause.

Whoops. I guess I overlooked that one.

Spoiler: answer

Although I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that Starling sent a clearance signal. After all, he had 29 years to study the pod and reverse-engineer its technology. And since the pod was returning to its home time rather than intruding from another, the clearance involved might've been simpler and more automatic, enough that Starling could pass himself off as an authorized pilot without needing to do too much reprogramming.

And it's hard to believe that a simple miscalibration could be enough to cause an explosion on such a scale. There may have been more details Braxton was leaving out so as to minimize "spoilers" for Janeway and Chakotay, or else his mental state made him an unreliable narrator.

I hate picking at it, though, because I thought this book was amazing. Every description of temporal physics you had in the book just clicked for me, I thought it was an amazing way of bringing together all the disparate threads of time travel throughout the series'. And I'd been looking forward to a full novel based on the DTI since I first heard it announced months ago; I thought it was the perfect conception of them as an organization. I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already, but suffice it to say I thought it was an extremely well-written book.

Thank you!

Spoiler: Starling and the Grid

What if Starling's tinkering actually set off a chain reaction in the temporal protection grid surrounding Earth causing the grid to explode like setting off a minefield?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Spoiler: Starling and the Grid

What if Starling's tinkering actually set off a chain reaction in the temporal protection grid surrounding Earth causing the grid to explode like setting off a minefield?

Spoiler: answer

I doubt the grid could function that way. By its very nature, it cancels out any unauthorized incursion before it occurs. It would simply have prevented the temporal rift from successfully forming in the first place. It wouldn't require a great deal of energy to nip the process in the bud, since a stable spacetime warp is a very difficult thing to achieve in the first place.

Also, the grid's component satellites aren't actually in orbit of major planets; after all, they were built and brought online in secret. They operate over subspace, able to neutralize any incursion within a range of parsecs.

Come to think of it, the one thing that might produce that kind of runaway energy surge is the divergent stress-energy tensor effect, which is what usually makes time warps unstable. If the rift were allowed to open in the 29th century (which would itself require clearance through the grid) and Starling's miscalibrations generated an instability right after... well, most likely it would simply collapse the rift. But if the timeship's engines artificially forced the rift to remain open and prolong the runaway energy buildup, then maybe there could've been a massive eruption of energy through the rift, which could've been devastating to Earth if the rift were too close.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I will have to read the annotations.

 

[Glitch]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Good book. Surprisingly sexy in some parts...and I really loved the allusions to Baxter's works. It makes sense that this particular author is a fan.

 

[Glitch]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

It would be interesting to know if the uptime temporal agencies have ever encountered Lazarus Long or any of his ilk. After all, the Star Trek universe is one than can be visited by a continua device.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Great story and really liked the reveal at the end of the book. I also think the ending of the book kills any belief that the Trek books are now just dark and gloomy.

 

[Quimby]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Loved the book! Thank you for such a fun and thought provoking story.

I am reading annotations on your site and I must admit, I missed the fact that there were 24 chapters. However, given you meant to allude to a clock, you missed a fun opportunity to present Chapter 4 as IIII rather than IV the way many (most?) Grandfather clocks do.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Are there even still audiobooks anymore? If so, they should totally get Jack Blessing and James Jansen to do the reading.

 

[Idran]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

It would be interesting to know if the uptime temporal agencies have ever encountered Lazarus Long or any of his ilk. After all, the Star Trek universe is one than can be visited by a continua device.

Oh, I really hope not. No offense to Heinlein, but the Lazarus Long stuff really wasn't his best work. (Time travel for purposes of incest isn't exactly my cup of tea. )

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I'm not a Heinlein fan and I've never read anything with Lazarus Long in it.

 

[Glitch]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I'm not a Heinlein fan and I've never read anything with Lazarus Long in it.

You did, however, reference him in your annotations.

I'm much more interested in your referencing of Stephen Baxter. Did you enjoy The Time Ships? I thought it was fantastic...he's truly an underrated SF author.

 

[Glitch]

Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I'm not a Heinlein fan and I've never read anything with Lazarus Long in it.

Just a note, I think Heinlein would have appreciated how you wrote the Deltan/human sexual interaction dynamic. The Deltan DTI agent felt alien but still relatable.