2011-12 pilot buzz thread

[startrekwatcher]

I just don't get why audiences eat up procedurals these days--there is no surprise--you introduce guest stars, there's a crime usually a murder and the investigation leads to a group of suspects before the person you think behind it turns out to be behind it. Plus you have a limited number of crimes to cycle over and over. Then there is the usual male/female sexual tension that drags on until it finally happens in the final waning years of a series.

Not everyone wants to commit the time and focus that following a serialized show requires. Episodic shows are easy viewing and viewers can dip in and out of watching them on a weekly basis as the mood suits or other engagements allow.

Yeah but you'd think even those viewers would get tired of a very rigid formula that doesn't offer anything fresh or surprising. If you've seen one you can pretty much figure it out 5 minutes into the episode. Even TNG which was standalone at least mixed it up with a variety of story types--most shows these days are the same thing each week a la Law & Order or Bones or NCIS or CSI

Don't get me wrong I used to enjoy those type of shows when I was younger and more naive and didn't have years of tv viewing under my belt--I would just think the natural evolution would be towards serialization. I mean at this stage episodic writers are just recycling since they've run out of ideas. I may be in the minority but I would like the writers to keep raising the bar and play with audience expectation. I might have had issues with LOST but one thing I have to commend them on was trying new things and coming up with some great surprises and twists I never saw coming. LOST didn't feel like something I had seen before.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Yeah but you'd think even those viewers would get tired of a very rigid formula that doesn't offer anything fresh or surprising. If you've seen one you can pretty much figure it out 5 minutes into the episode. Even TNG which was standalone at least mixed it up with a variety of story types--most shows these days are the same thing each week a la Law & Order or Bones or NCIS or CSI

Episodic shows are often driven more by the enjoyment of the characters than by unexpected twists and turns, and sometimes the predictable formula is actually part of what viewers enjoy. Really good episodic writing will provide the character moments and recurring elements that viewers enjoy and throw in some genuine surprises, but it takes a very skilled writing team to accomplish that and keep it up over the long haul.

There's a glut of crime procedurals on television and I burned out on them a while back. The only one I've watched in recent years is Life, which at least gave the procedural an interesting twist. I'd like to see episodic television offer fewer investigative procedurals and more action/adventure shows.

 

[Professor Zoom]

At least serialization allows to break up formula, add some unpredictability and force the writers to carve out their own unique storyline for their show. It did wonders for ENT, DS9, Fringe, LOST.

Yeah, WONDERS. Seriously, ENT?

Only ONE of those shows had/have ratings that networks WANT to have. (Though one wonders why you didn't mention 24)

Serialized do break up the formula but they don't guarantee ratings anymore than episodic. And, one can argue, episodic are generally EASIER to get into for a new audience than serialized (if you miss the first season... then you have to go and watch the DVDs or hulu to catch up... and sometimes, who wants to do extra work for TV?)

 

[startrekwatcher]

At least serialization allows to break up formula, add some unpredictability and force the writers to carve out their own unique storyline for their show. It did wonders for ENT, DS9, Fringe, LOST.

Yeah, WONDERS. Seriously, ENT?

Well I certainly enjoyed ENT more after they ditched the warmed over recycled Trek standalones and gave us a compelling season long arc that gave the show a narrative urgency, sense of mystery(spheres, the Xindi, the future forces manipulating this), excitement, thrill and epic scope that the series never had in the first two seasons. They carried this over into season four with the trilogies that worked to world build and fill in blanks in the Trek universe.

 

[Professor Zoom]

At least serialization allows to break up formula, add some unpredictability and force the writers to carve out their own unique storyline for their show. It did wonders for ENT, DS9, Fringe, LOST.

Yeah, WONDERS. Seriously, ENT?

Well I certainly enjoyed ENT more after they ditched the warmed over recycled Trek standalones and gave us a compelling season long arc that gave the show a narrative urgency, sense of mystery(spheres, the Xindi, the future forces manipulating this), excitement, thrill and epic scope that the series never had in the first two seasons. They carried this over into season four with the trilogies that worked to world build and fill in blanks in the Trek universe.

The problem was the recycled PLOTS not that it episodic.

The season long Xindi arc was built on such an idiotic idea (Hey, let's test the weapon on the VERY PEOPLE we're going to use it, just so they know we're coming!) Idiotic villains. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but, I couldn't finish that season.

Personally, I don't care if a show is serialized or episodic, I want engaging characters that have interesting things happening to them. Neither serialized or episodic guarantee that, only good writing connected with good directing and acting does.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Yeah, WONDERS. Seriously, ENT?

Well I certainly enjoyed ENT more after they ditched the warmed over recycled Trek standalones and gave us a compelling season long arc that gave the show a narrative urgency, sense of mystery(spheres, the Xindi, the future forces manipulating this), excitement, thrill and epic scope that the series never had in the first two seasons. They carried this over into season four with the trilogies that worked to world build and fill in blanks in the Trek universe.

The problem was the recycled PLOTS not that it episodic.

But I just haven't seen fresh episodic storytelling in the last decade. Fringe standalones stale, Supernatural standalones stale, ENT S1/2 standalones stale etc. I've only seen really entertaining stories in shows that do arcs. That doesn't mean serialized dramas can't be poorly written--V, Flash Forward, Harper's Island, Invasion, Surface, Caprica, Heroes, The Event, the last several seasons of 24. Just that serialized dramas seem to be the better written shows in the last ten years.

I do love episodic stuff when done well--TNG's S3-6 for instance but I haven't seen that solid writing and importantly consistently week in, week out, season after season. Or The X-Files.

The season long Xindi arc was built on such an idiotic idea (Hey, let's test the weapon on the VERY PEOPLE we're going to use it, just so they know we're coming!) Idiotic villains. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but, I couldn't finish that season.

Well I have always been able to overlook a contrivance if in the long run the rest of it is compelling and I thought the Xindi arc was when it didn't take detours to disposable filler stories so it didn't bother me that they tested the probe on Earth.

 

[Professor Zoom]

But I just haven't seen fresh episodic storytelling in the last decade.

I have... Burn Notice, for example. Great breezy fun. Same with Castle.

But, I think I've brought them up to you before and you poo poo'd them.

Oh, well. For the most part, there's plenty of TV to enjoy--from the serialized to the episodic.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I just don't get why audiences eat up procedurals these days

My grumpy hunch is that the procedural audience is easier to please. They're like someone who wants a burger for dinner every night. That's easy to fix and they'll never complain or go someplace else.

The sf/f fan is like someone who wants a gourmet meal every night, but not the same damn one! Thai food tonight, Italian the next, then maybe some sushi. It better have surprises and it had better be great, or they're gone.

If you ran a restaurant and the money were the same, which group would you cater to? (Assume you're just in it for the money.)

Anyway, cable is where all the good stuff is: American Horror Story (FX) has cast a couple more characters, including Evan Peters, who has been in a few low-key roles but always stuck me as the kind of actor who could really break out if given the chance.

American Horror Story sounds good enough to mitigate the disappointment of Locke & Key probably not having much of a chance.

EW's InsideTV chimes in.

Reporting a lot of the same news as Deadline...Charlie's Angels looks good, Wonder Woman may be in trouble...

However, there are some intriguing discrepencies, particularly this:

the Edgar Allan Poe-as-crime-fighter-drama called Poe, is getting a lukewarm reception, with Chris Egan looking inappropriately hot in the lead

Is Poe a show that only the big boss at ABC likes, and all his underlings think stinks?

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

The latest report from Deadline Hollywood reinforces the prior buzz in some cases and contradicts it in others (for instance, Wonder Woman is now said to be getting a positive reaction):

ABC: The only element of uncertainly about GOOD CHRISTIAN BITCHES' future as a new ABC series next season seems to be what it will be called as it will definitely won't be GCB. After a great screening today, the dramedy executive produced by Darren Star appears a sure thing, possibly as a companion to Desperate Housewives given that it's been referred to as "Desperate Housewives in Dallas." Probably the biggest surprise today was the mixed reaction to Shonda Rhimes' drama SCANDAL, once considered a lock. But with Rhimes behind it, the project is still in the running. Also mixed was the reaction to family/dance drama GRACE, which once again got praise for its elaborate dance sequences and not so much for the narrative. Still a possibility to run behind Dancing with the Stars. Early comedy favorites, SUBURGATORY and SMOTHERED, continue to fly high after good screenings today and yesterday, respectively. Reaction to the Jenna Elfman-starring comedy BAD MOM was more mixed. Just like at the testing of the pilot, Elfman herself got high marks. Meanwhile, I hear MY FREAKIN' FAMILY and OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS didn't fare well. Yet to be screened are several early standouts, including ONCE UPON A TIME, THE RIVER, PAN AM, DON'T TRUST THE BITCH IN APT. 23 and UNTITLED TIM ALLEN.

Fox: WEEKENDS AT BELLEVUE, the medical drama in the vein of House that Fox picked up at the last minute in a turnaround from NBC, continues to look good as a potential companion to House after a strong screening today. Also solid were the showings of the Ethan Hawke-starring spy drama EXIT STRATEGY and the Shawn Levy-directed comedy FAMILY ALBUM, while comedy COUNCIL OF DADS didn't look good. WEEKENDS AT BELLEVUE and EXIT STRATEGY have emerged as frontrunners on the drama side, along with the Kiefer Sutherland starrer TOUCH, which is yet to film a pilot.

NBC: Taking a page from Leslie Moonves' playbook, new NBC chief Bob Greenblatt has put the fear of god into all his new underlings about keeping pilot information confidential. The biggest news out of NBC is that David E. Kelley's WONDER WOMAN pilot has been delivered and it's getting positive reaction. Also in is another remake, that of U.K.'s PRIME SUSPECT, and it appears very strong, currently considered a frontrunner alongside early standout SMASH and Kyle Killen's Inception-style REM, which had been picking up steam. Slightly below on the buzz scale are period drama PLAYBOY and WONDER WOMAN, both of which are very much in contention, followed by another pair, Stephen Gaghan's METRO and the fantastical GRIMM.

CBS: No major changes at CBS where comedy HOW TO BE A GENTLEMAN screened well today. UNTITLED PETER KNIGHT and TWO BROKE GIRLS continue to garner buzz on the comedy side, with a couple of high-profile pilots, including THE ASSISTANTS and UNTITLED SPORTS SHOW yet to be seen. On the drama side, ROOKIES still looks rock-solid, with PERSON OF INTEREST gaining momentum. UNTITLED SUSANNAH GRANT medical drama also looks very good after the pilot was re-cut, with P.I. show HAIL MARY and procedural THE REMEMBERER remaining in contention.

CW: CW's standings also appear to be status quo, with HART OF DIXIE and THE SECRET CIRCLE still a cut above, pending CIRCLE's screening tomorrow. HEAVENLY and procedural COOPER & STONE come next, followed by zombie drama AWAKENING and DANNI LOWINSKI, both of which had so-so screenings today.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Damn, I was hoping that Wonder Woman would crash and burn.

Ech, no mention of screenings for Locke & Key, 17th Precinct or Reconstruction. Me no likee.

Awakenings seems pretty sketchy now. No great loss.

Still rooting for: Grimm and REM (which I've seen cited as "the best pilot of the season" many places, although maybe the posts are just one very busy PR person.)

Variety report.

Nothing surprising - Alcatraz and Locke & Key are "creatively impressive" but FOX suspects either might just get them a Fringe-sized fringe audience (likely, but you'll never get a big hit unless you roll the dice every so often) and NBC thinks Reconstruction/The Crossing (what the frak is the name?) would be hard to promote. Why even order pilots in sf/f and history genres if you are scared of the entire genre?

More evidence that the networks are scared of anything unusual, which means they'll pick up the same old boring shit they always do, which will push the audience even more to cable, which will accellerate the network death spiral. No guts, no glory guys. One of those cool-sounding shows you're passing on could be the next Lost. Odds are against it, but it's certain that some sitcom or cop show isn't going to be it.

Several of the networks have people from cable running things now. I thought the idea was to give the networks some spine so they could compete with cable, but you wouldn't know it from the way pilot season is shaking out. Unless they want to ride the mainstream audience to the grave the way CBS is doing, they need to make a move now to break out of the death spiral. It's not gonna get any better. Kids are tuning out of network TV. You'd think that would terrify the networks. They're losing a whole generation, and that will break the network-TV habit for good.

The death of the soap opera genre should be a lesson to everyone - TV genres are associated with generational groups and they go out of fashion when that cohort dies off. The seemingly indestructible police procedural may very well follow suit. At the very least, it's not attracting the young eyeballs networks need for their survival.

An article on the female-dominated pilots this year. TV is getting more and more female-centric, I guess as an offset to the male-centric movie biz.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Charles S. Dutton has been cast in FX's Powers as Captain Cross, the head of the police unit that investigates crimes involving people with superpowers.

And here is Deadline Hollywood's latest update:

ABC: With only one freshman drama, Body of Proof, having a shot at returning next season, ABC is rumored to pick up as many as 6-7 new hourlong series. And word is the network's brass like so many of their pilots, they may have a hard time narrowing down their choices to 6-7. Of the drama pilots screened today, only procedural PARTNERS, which had been cold for awhile, didn't do well. Two pilots that had been garnering mixed early reaction, Marc Cherry's HALLELUJAH and the Count of Monte Cristo-inspired soap REVENGE both did better today, with HALLELUJAH still drawing mixed reaction in some rooms but also getting strong approval in others. And the Phillip Noyce-directed REVENGE got solid feedback though some question the long-term prospect of the central revenge storyline. Paranormal Activity-style thriller THE RIVER, helmed by Jaume Collet-Serra, was liked by most who call it "cool". On the comedy side, APT. 23 was a hit, described as being laugh out laud funny. Two years after he directed the pilot for Modern Family, APT. 23 helmer Jason Winer has done it again. And WORK IT, the cross-dressing comedy that had been getting positive buzz in the past few days, did well today too. The UNTITLED TIM ALLEN multicamera comedy will not screen until Monday, but its buzz is so strong that it is considered a frontrunner, with some even speculating that ABC may use it to launch another comedy block, possibly on Tuesday. Also slated to screen next week are 2 drama pilots with solid early buzz, the magical tale ONCE UPON A TIME and 1960s airline soap PAN AM. Here is a recap of the rest of ABC's pilots that have screened so far:

GOOD CHRISTIAN BITCHES - red hot.
CHARLIE'S ANGELS - a lock
IDENTITY - hot
POE - strong
Shonda Rhimes' SCANDAL - despite mixed reaction in some rooms, continues to be in serious contention.
GRACE - not perfect, but amazing dance sequences and strong female appeal make it a contender for a Dancing With the Stars companion.
SUBURGATORY, SMOTHERED - both solid, with SUBURGATORY's buzz a bit stronger
BAD MOM - Everyone loves Jenna Elfman in this, mixed on the rest.
MAN UP - mixed
MY FREAKIN' FAMILY, OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS - don't look good.

Fox: THE NEW GIRL screened very well and, along with FAMILY ALBUM, is considered a lock on the comedy side, with I HATE MY TEENAGE DAUGHTER close behind. Medical drama WEEKENDS AT BELLEVUE continues to gain momentum for a pickup, with the the Ethan Hawke-starring spy drama EXIT STRATEGYalso strong. Graphic novel adaptation LOCKE & KEY impressed today with the way it was shot but there are questions about its potential as a series. The project was originally developed at DreamWorks as a feature, maybe that was the way to go. There is no final word on LOCKE & KEY or ALCATRAZ but their chances are sad to be 50/50.

TAGGED, COUNCIL OF DADS - not good

CBS: TWO BROKE GIRLS screened well today as it continues to generate strong buzz on the comedy side along with HOW TO BE A GENTLEMAN. After humble beginnings, UNTITLED PETER KNIGHT keeps rising steadily thanks to a great testing, with THE ASSISTANTS faring OK in its recent screening, while VINCE UNCENSORED is pretty much written off and HOME GAME fading.

On the drama side, the James Mangold-directed ROOKIES appears a shoe-in, with PERSON OF INTEREST continuing to gain momentum and P.I. show HAIL MARY still strong. Procedural THE REMEMBERER had a solid screening to remain in contention, while the re-cut UNTITLED SUSANNAH GRANT medical drama will screen on Monday but most are already betting on it going to series. RINGER, which screened early, has been pretty quiet.

NBC: Not much new information from this year's Fort Knox, which has been in lockdown under orders from Bob Greenblatt, with SMASH and PRIME SUSPECT as prime drama contenders alongside rising REM. While not locks, PLAYBOY and WONDER WOMAN remain in contention, followed on the buzz meter by another pair, Stephen Gaghan's METRO and the fantastical GRIMM. A MANN's WORLD and Western RECONSTRUCTION have an outside chance, while 17th PRECINCT is pretty much done.

On the comedy side, the star-studded EMILY SPIVEY pilot has finally been delivered and we're awaiting word on how it has been received. (Not that that's relevant as this pilot has to a disaster not to go.) From the others, the two chick comedies, UNTITLED WHITNEY CUMMINGS and CHelsea Handler's ARE YOU THERE VODKA still look good, along with BENT, UNTITLED DAN GOOR and UNTITLED KARI LIZER, while word is that LOVELIVES, BRAVE NEW WORLD and MY LIFE AS AN EXPERIMENT don't look that good.

CW: In today's screening, Kevin Williamson's pilot THE SECRET CIRCLE lived up to the hype and now firmly holds the frontrunner position with medical drama HART OF DIXIE. HEAVENLY and procedural COOPER & STONE are still behind, followed by zombie drama AWAKENING and DANNI LOWINSKI, with the latter not as bad as many think but probably not good enough to make the cut to series.

 

[Jax]

Am surprised to see 17th Precient seemingly dead after early buzz and I think J.J should leave ALCATRAZ for another year since Fringe will probably end next season. I also would think Charlie Angels would find its suitable audience on Greys Thursdays with ABC moving the older show to 8pm to anchor the night and Charlie's Angels following ?

PERSON OF INTEREST and POE have my early attention due to Michael Emerson in PoI and just the idea of Poe sounds solid. However ABC has only one 10pm slot open and you can't tell me Poe will fit the comedy block night, that needs a comedy drama like Brother & Sisters so where the hell will it go ???

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I could see Fox picking up Alcatraz for mid-season and giving a heads-up that Fringe should be wrapped up within 13 episodes.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I wonder why 17th Precinct came in so badly, to be one of the few pilots being written off almost immediately. I know the cast was strong (putting it mildly, it has the best cast of any pilot this year!!!) and the writing must have been at least interesting. It sounded like it was a fascinating, fully-fledged universe with loads of detail. Maybe RDM is just too used to cable, where you have a bit more leeway and don't have to grab people by the scruff immediately with the usual hooks. If anyone ever finds an explanation or even hints, I'd like to know.

Nice to see that Locke & Key, Alcatraz, Halleluljah and Reconstruction are still in the running. If I had my choice, I'd rather see Locke & Key on FX (pair it up with American Horror Story?) where it would have more of a chance of survival. Odds are long against any of them surviving even if picked up. Alcatraz sound like it could be too dependent on its mystery gimmick. Reconstruction is hampered by being a period piece, which broadcast audiences aren't used to (tho I'm sure Robert Knepper chewing the scenery will keep some people watching on his own). Halleluljah seems like the best fit for broadcast, an sf/f small-town soap with religious elements. Marc Cherry, Terry O'Quinn and Donal Logue will all bring built-in fan followings with them.

Still rooting for Grimm and REM. I'm not usually into doctor dramas but Weekends at Bellevue might be an interesting topic. For comedy, rooting for How to Be a Gentleman. Too bad about Brave New World. Oh well, I'm rarely interested in broadcast comedy anymore. Really hard to compete with the freedom of cable.

I could see Fox picking up Alcatraz for mid-season and giving a heads-up that Fringe should be wrapped up within 13 episodes.

Fringe's finale ratings were very weak. I wonder if FOX regrets renewing it. They should have axed it and rolled the dice with a new sf/f series or two. Nobody really knows what works, particularly in sf/f, so getting a hit is a matter of just playing the odds. That's why it makes sense for networks to wield a heavy hand with the axe, even though it results in a new crop of angry fans every time it happens.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

^^^
Yeah, I can't see Fringe getting a full fourth season given how low the ratings are. Imagine the upset if Fox changed their minds and reversed the renewal!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I just noticed:

There is no final word on LOCKE & KEY or ALCATRAZ but their chances are sad to be 50/50.

I wonder if that means it'll be one or the other? I'd hate to see both get passed over.

Speculation that the OBL raid is helping Exit Strategy (which probably was a lock anyway).

 

[startrekwatcher]

Fringe's finale ratings were very weak. I wonder if FOX regrets renewing it. They should have axed it and rolled the dice with a new sf/f series or two.

I agree. I watched it mostly out of desperation for even a halfway passable sff show these days but honestly I'd much rather see some of the more interesting pilot fare being floated about here than Fringe taking their slot in the fall schedule. Fringe is just warmed over X-Files and stupid sci-fi mumbo jumbo and I can't help but get the strong vibe that its mythology, its most interesting feature, will end up as just a mess as every other sff show that does them. It had three seasons to prove itself and it just hasn't in my opinion--it would be a shame if its renewal cost one of these other shows a greenlight.

Frankly ABC should can V its two seasons and multiple shake-ups did it no good. NBC needs to chuck Chuck--it had a nice run but it ran out of steam this year. The Event needs to go--can you even call it a sff shows--sure it has the trappings but what I've seen of it it resembles a 24-esque type straightforward political action thriller more than anything else.

Smallville thankfully is being put out of its misery, Supernatural was renewed but is there anything left compelling to say.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wait, V and The Event are coming back? Or are they still on the bubble? I thought it was pretty evident they weren't coming back.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Wait, V and The Event are coming back? Or are they still on the bubble? I thought it was pretty evident they weren't coming back.

Neither have been officially cancelled yet, but The Event definitely will be and V is highly likely to be, too.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

This is the first year I can remember where I want the networks to cancel EVERYTHING. There is literally nothing I'd miss. Clean slate, roll the dice. Random chance seems to be the only way they stumble across the good stuff.