TV Science-Fiction: A Genre In Decline on TV?

[Temis the Vorta]

I would like to see a new Sci-Fi channel that simply focused on rerunning old science fiction series and movies

What's the point? Isn't everything on Netflix now? TV timeslots should be used to support new stuff because new stuff isn't going to be made any other way unless it's direct to DVD and I can't think of anything in that format that was any good at all.

SCI FI is not a mass appeal genre and the problem is cable, which is designed for small niche tastes is going more mainstream than ever and leaving SCI FI behind.

No, cable is where the good stuff will all emerge because it appeals to small niche tastes. Really good shows rarely are able to have broad appeal - goodness and mass appeal have always tended to be mutually exclusive, and the split is only getting wider.

Lost was the last of the good shows with mass appeal. The upcoming broadcast season has several interesting pilots but the most intriguing and "different" (like Ron Moore's 17th Precinct) are probably not going to go to series. The network suits will see to that. They just want cop shows, sitcoms and remakes - the safe stuff - because they're fighting for their survival having lost half their audience to cable, and their only strategy for survival is to go as broad-taste as possible.

But I don't care about broadcast's problems. What I want are more shows that appeal to my tastes, which are definitely not mainstream. There are a few million people whose tastes are similar enough to mine that cable could cater to us, but broadcast probably can't. AMC's The Walking Dead is the right idea and a model for future quality sf/f on TV. TNT's got Falling Skies coming up in June, let's see if that does better than V for an alien-invasion show. FX has American Horror Story in the works. HBO, Showtime and Starz also need to step up to the plate.

The problem is in my opinion most of tv for the last several years has been awful--I'd argue this was the worst season of tv with crap like The Event, V 2.0, Flash Forward, last several seasons of Heroes, Caprica, SGU, The Gates, Persons Unknown in the sff genre.

Just to chime in, in defense of The Gates - after four episodes or so, it started to click was definitely was worth watching. Caprica was a wonderful idea and a wonderful cast, but wow did they botch the execution. You just cannot depend on people to be patient with a slow moving, unfocused story. OTOH, Persons Unknown was possibly the worst show I've ever tried to struggle through. Cool idea, terrible terrible terrible execution.

I intend to catch Dexter when the show ends and go back through it.

You are in for a real treat, especially S1, S2 and S4. I hope you haven't been spoiled on too many of the plot twists...I subscribe to Showtime mostly because that's the one show I won't allow myself to be spoiled on.

Warehouse 13 is more fluffy SyFy that I don't like a la Eureka.

Agreed, I don't like that style of sci fi either. Just another example of how picky niche tastes can be, because plenty of viewers do like that style and skiffy is sensibly enough catering to them. Those same viewers might disdain the hard-boiled BSG approach. With such fussy people to accommodate, I can't fault skiffy for wanting to make money any way they can.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

I would like to see a new Sci-Fi channel that simply focused on rerunning old science fiction series and movies

What's the point? Isn't everything on Netflix now? TV timeslots should be used to support new stuff because new stuff isn't going to be made any other way unless it's direct to DVD and I can't think of anything in that format that was any good at all.

A lot is on Netflix (not all), but making the deliberate decision to have a DVD delivered or stream it, and coming across something while channel surfing is two different mind sets. As for new content vs old, I think there is plenty of room on cable for both. I would love to see a channel that had, for example, a different Star Trek every week night at 8:00 PM, followed by Babylon 5 at 9:00 PM on Mondays, Seven Days on Tuesdays, X-Files on Wednesdays, Stargate SG-1 on Thursdays, and Battlestar Galactica on Fridays. Then maybe Twilight Zone at 10:00 PM one night, Outer Limits another, Doctor Who another, etc, etc. During the daytime could be for obscure or one hit wonder sci-fi shows, and the weekends for movies. The possible shows, movies, combinations and schedules are numerous. One of SyFy's biggest problems is lack of regularity.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

One of SyFy's biggest problems is lack of regularity.

They should eat more fiber.

 

[Greg Cox]

I would like to see a new Sci-Fi channel that simply focused on rerunning old science fiction series and movies

What's the point? Isn't everything on Netflix now? TV timeslots should be used to support new stuff because new stuff isn't going to be made any other way unless it's direct to DVD and I can't think of anything in that format that was any good at all.

A lot is on Netflix (not all), but making the deliberate decision to have a DVD delivered or stream it, and coming across something while channel surfing is two different mind sets. .

True. But I'm not sure you can depend on a steady steam of people stumbling onto a show by accident. Or assume that large amounts of people will keep on watching an old show on a regular basis.

Like I said, I can see myself watching an old episode of The Bionic Woman once or twice for nostalgia's sake, but not on a weekly basis. And only if there isn't anything new on . . . .

 

[Temis the Vorta]

A lot is on Netflix (not all), but making the deliberate decision to have a DVD delivered or stream it, and coming across something while channel surfing is two different mind sets.

I don't channel surf. I have TrekBBS for all my time-wasting needs.

But I don't mind if skiffy wants to air old shows at off hours. I'm DVRing all The Twilight Zone episodes at 5am or whatever. They show about 5 eps a week at off times. If I have a hankering to see some old show, I'll check the DVR to see if it's airing somewhere. But I see no reason to put old shows in prime hours when it's easy enough to search for names on the DVR or if that fails, Netflix.

But I'm not sure you can depend on a steady steam of people stumbling onto a show by accident.

Why do I care what shows people stumble onto? Can't people figure out what they want to watch the way I do? Think of a title, look it up on the DVR or Netflix or use some other technology that's designed expressly to make it easier to find what you want. If you don't know what you want to watch, start a thread here and ask for suggestions. We have so much technology at our command that it's insane to fall back on archaic methods like channel surfing.

 

[watermelony2k]

anyone else here like me who hasn't had cable or tv for years now? it's all about the internet now. Cable tv's gonna die. I can't wait to see what original content and shows netflix is brewing up.

 

[Mr Light]

Hopefully in a few years we'll get direct to the internet sci-fi TV series. I doubt the budget will be amazing but if they cram it with ads...

 

[Carpe Occasio]

True. But I'm not sure you can depend on a steady steam of people stumbling onto a show by accident. Or assume that large amounts of people will keep on watching an old show on a regular basis.

Like I said, I can see myself watching an old episode of The Bionic Woman once or twice for nostalgia's sake, but not on a weekly basis. And only if there isn't anything new on . . . .

As an example, I know I can stream any episode of the X-Files on Netflix, but I don't. However, if there was a cable channel that was running the X-Files, say every Thursday night, I would watch.

I don't channel surf. I have TrekBBS for all my time-wasting needs...

Why do I care what shows people stumble onto? Can't people figure out what they want to watch the way I do? Think of a title, look it up on the DVR or Netflix or use some other technology that's designed expressly to make it easier to find what you want. If you don't know what you want to watch, start a thread here and ask for suggestions. We have so much technology at our command that it's insane to fall back on archaic methods like channel surfing.

I have to admit that I generally don't channel surf either (and I'm a big DVR user,) but as I said above, I don't use Netflix like I could. Here's another example. I have Escape From New York on DVD, but I never break it out and watch. But I will watch Escape From New York any time it's on TV (if I know about it, not from surfing, but from scanning the channel guide.) I know, I'm weird (my wife tells me all the time,) but I think others do the same.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

anyone else here like me who hasn't had cable or tv for years now? it's all about the internet now. Cable tv's gonna die. I can't wait to see what original content and shows netflix is brewing up.

Piano-playing cats are fine and all, but I do like to see professionally produced content as well.

Hopefully in a few years we'll get direct to the internet sci-fi TV series. I doubt the budget will be amazing but if they cram it with ads...

Low-budget and crammed with ads, well sign me up. There better be a whole orchestra's worth of musical cats.

I have Escape From New York on DVD, but I never break it out and watch. But I will watch Escape From New York any time it's on TV (if I know about it, not from surfing, but from scanning the channel guide.) I know, I'm weird (my wife tells me all the time,) but I think others do the same.

The solution is not to buy DVDs. I have a very small DVD collection, just of a smattering of true classics (Fantasia, Doctor Strangelove, Blade Runner director's cut) that I would feel funny not owning, even if I rarely watch them.

 

[JD]

Hopefully in a few years we'll get direct to the internet sci-fi TV series. I doubt the budget will be amazing but if they cram it with ads...

We already have. Riese: Kingdom Falling, Mortal Kombat: Legacy, Mercury Men, Star Trek: Phase II (Ok, that's just a fan series, but it's pretty close to TV quality stuff)Those are the biggest ones that immediately come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

 

[Greg Cox]

Hopefully in a few years we'll get direct to the internet sci-fi TV series. I doubt the budget will be amazing but if they cram it with ads...

We already have. Riese: Kingdom Falling, Mortal Kombat: Legacy, Mercury Men, Star Trek: Phase II (Ok, that's just a fan series, but it's pretty close to TV quality stuff)Those are the biggest ones that immediately come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

Thank you for mentioning Riese so I didn't have to.

(Did I mention that I just finished the first Riese novel?)

 

[Carpe Occasio]

The solution is not to buy DVDs. I have a very small DVD collection, just of a smattering of true classics (Fantasia, Doctor Strangelove, Blade Runner director's cut) that I would feel funny not owning, even if I rarely watch them.

I only have a handful of DVD's myself. Escape From New York Special Edition, Colossus the Forbin Project, Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Casablanca, The History Channels Engineering an Empire series with Peter Weller. It's the same for video content on my main PC. Just the original version of Star Wars and Pink Floyd in Gdansk. Most movies I get from Netflix on DVD in the mail, or stream from Netflix thru our AppleTV.

On another note, there have been six Star Trek series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) but you hardly see any of them on TV any more. Spike seems to have stopped all together (as another post brought out) and SyFy is spotty with TNG and ENT. Fortunately Netflix will be streaming all except TAS. TOS, TNG, VOY & ENT in July, DS9 in October.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

TV all around pretty much sucks--pop culture is in a rut--or maybe I've reached the age where I sound like my parents talking about the good old days of the 80s and 90s

In the '00s, pop culture was in a rut. I've also heard that from comparing fashions in any given 10 years, the fashions changed the least over the '00s compared to any decade going back to at least the early 20th century. Music became more taken over by record companies and they manufactured stars with less talent than other musicians/performers but more money behind them (pop princesses & boybands) not to mention lip syncing and heavily altering vocals became big. It became less about the singing and more about performing choreographed dance numbers in videos & live shows. Compared to the '00s, the '80s & '90s were amazing. Notice there has been a growing block of people that just don't go to the movies anymore over the '00s because most of the films released seem like formulaic retreads ad nauseum.

Some decades are just like that. The '70s are a pretty "meh" decade for many who remember it. The '60s & '80s eclipsed it in many things (though the '70s has some redeeming qualities of its own). The early '50s was stale (the "50s" people remember is the mid '50s to early '60s).

There does seem to be a general sense that shows just suck more nowadays. As someone noted about SGU not comparing to many '90s/early '00s sci-fi in quality, the same can be said about ENT (retread episodes nobody wanted like "Oasis", "Doctor's Orders", Ferengi, Borg, even talk of Q) and SGA, my favorite Stargate series (the writers lost the drive to create for it, but instead of handing it over to many other eager/interested writers, they chose to end the series, to Sci-Fi's now chagrin and give them SGU. And they couldn't write for Teyla so ignored her save for like 1 ep/season). SGA had a likeable cast though, something SGU can't say (even many SGU fans noted they just don't care much for any of the characters). ENT generally had a likeable cast, though many were fairly mediocre.

We will never see another 'just scifi' channel to survive it would have to be a mix of scifi, fantasy, horror, mystery and some action. I think Viacom has the best resouces to put out such a channel.

Old Sci-Fi Channel had the Incredible Hulk and some fantasy genre reruns. I think it was even considered to specialize in Sci-Fi/Fantasy content (the 2 genres often get paired up). It also had Ripley's Believe It or Not... the original one (Jack Palance >>>>>>>>>>>> Dean Cain). There's also the matter of cable's pole reversal, going from specialized niches to general content targetting the mainstream (all the reality shows).

(my notes added in)

But imagine a channel where you could watch Lost in Space (you forgot Time Tunnel, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Land of the Giants), Space: 1999, Star Trek TOS, Star Trek TNG, Star Trek DS9 (Spike), Star Trek VOY (Spike), Enterprise, The X-Files (think they got it after FX & TNT), Doctor Who (PBS), Babylon 5 (TNT), Andromeda, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits (original: TNT had, later Sci-Fi, new: Sci-Fi later got it), Battlestar Galactica, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, The Greatest American Hero, Highlander, Jericho, Man from U.N.C.L.E. (retro networks), Mystery Science Theater 3000, Quantum Leap, SeaQuest, Roswell (dunno), Seven Days, Sliders, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate Universe, Superman (live-action: retro networks, cartoon: Cartoon Network), Batman (live-action: FX & retro networks, cartoon: Cartoon Network), (you left out...) Incredible Hulk & Amazing Spider-Man, Wonder Woman, V, The Wild Wild West (retro networks), and any number of other genre shows, like Buck Rogers, Night Gallery, Amazing Stories, Monsters, Swamp Thing, Alien Nation, Forever Knight, Kolchak: The Night Stalker -

You being sarcastic? That looks like a list of classic Sci-Fi's schedule. I added my notes)

Take a flip down memory lane:

http://www.innermind.com/sfc/index.html

Golden Girls was mentioned. I always thought there was amazing spinoff potential with it, depending on if they found the right 4 actresses:
Silver Girls: Dorothy, Rose, Blanche, Sophia as women entering middle age (well, Sophia's older) and all their sitcom adventures at that age,
Bronze Girls: might look like Gossip Girl. Dorothy, Rose, Blanche as teenagers or young women (+ an older Sophia). It would be much more risque for the sensibilities of the original Golden Girl viewers.
Platinum Girls: it's the future baby! Dorothy, Rose, Blanche, Sophia have entered a brave new world as robots. Same sitcom adventures follow, only with a robotic twist. In keeping with the original, Sophia would be an older model robot.
Roentgenium Girls: it's evolution time! The girls have evolved in the distant future. One is a non-corporal energy lifeform, one is a big headed telepathic human of the future (6th finger optional), one has been enhanced via rewriting the DNA to have x-ray & UV vision, be able to fly, run at super speeds, and have neon hair (though alas, her skin changes color depending on her mood), and Sophia 'evolved' into a transwarp salamander.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

But imagine a channel where you could watch Lost in Space (you forgot Time Tunnel, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Land of the Giants), Space: 1999, Star Trek TOS, Star Trek TNG, Star Trek DS9 (Spike), Star Trek VOY (Spike), Enterprise, The X-Files (think they got it after FX & TNT), Doctor Who (PBS), Babylon 5 (TNT), Andromeda, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits (original: TNT had, later Sci-Fi, new: Sci-Fi later got it), Battlestar Galactica, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, The Greatest American Hero, Highlander, Jericho, Man from U.N.C.L.E. (retro networks), Mystery Science Theater 3000, Quantum Leap, SeaQuest, Roswell (dunno), Seven Days, Sliders, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate Universe, Superman (live-action: retro networks, cartoon: Cartoon Network), Batman (live-action: FX & retro networks, cartoon: Cartoon Network), (you left out...) Incredible Hulk & Amazing Spider-Man, Wonder Woman, V, The Wild Wild West (retro networks), and any number of other genre shows, like Buck Rogers, Night Gallery, Amazing Stories, Monsters, Swamp Thing, Alien Nation, Forever Knight, Kolchak: The Night Stalker -

You being sarcastic? That looks like a list of classic Sci-Fi's schedule. I added my notes)

No, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was just dashing off a sampling of what would be available if a cable channel could get all the syndication rights at once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_science_fiction_television_programs

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

anyone else here like me who hasn't had cable or tv for years now? it's all about the internet now. Cable tv's gonna die. I can't wait to see what original content and shows netflix is brewing up.

Cable is continuing to grow, and that'll likely continue for quite some time. Eventually there'll be a switch to pay TV that's all view on demand - by TV or computer - when the infrastructure is in place to support it.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

One of SyFy's biggest problems is lack of regularity.

They should eat more fiber.

Ha! Just saw this.

 

[JD]

Hopefully in a few years we'll get direct to the internet sci-fi TV series. I doubt the budget will be amazing but if they cram it with ads...

We already have. Riese: Kingdom Falling, Mortal Kombat: Legacy, Mercury Men, Star Trek: Phase II (Ok, that's just a fan series, but it's pretty close to TV quality stuff)Those are the biggest ones that immediately come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

Thank you for mentioning Riese so I didn't have to.

(Did I mention that I just finished the first Riese novel?)

I actually haven't watched it past the first episode yet. Although I'm planning on watching at least some more of it tomarrow. I liked the episode, but I just got distracted by other things and then forgot about it until a couple days ago.

Is you're book an original story or an adaptation?

 

[Greg Cox]

We already have. Riese: Kingdom Falling, Mortal Kombat: Legacy, Mercury Men, Star Trek: Phase II (Ok, that's just a fan series, but it's pretty close to TV quality stuff)Those are the biggest ones that immediately come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

Thank you for mentioning Riese so I didn't have to.

(Did I mention that I just finished the first Riese novel?)

I actually haven't watched it past the first episode yet. Although I'm planning on watching at least some more of it tomarrow. I liked the episode, but I just got distracted by other things and then forgot about it until a couple days ago.

Is you're book an original story or an adaptation?

It's a prequel to the webseries . . . .

 

[JD]

Cool. I might have to check it out then. When's it coming out?

 

[Greg Cox]

Cool. I might have to check it out then. When's it coming out?

I'm not sure when the release date is. I just delivered the ms. a few weeks ago and am waiting to hear back from my editor.