Have to agree. But sadly in some cultures formality still reigns...
Using English on TBBS
- Thread starter Kestra
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IIRC, to be more specific, the KJV was trying to mimic the Greek, which had a formal and informal. Since the Greek used informal, they went with that as well.
BTW, interestingly enough, Classic Latin had no formal/informal distinction. If you addressed Emperor Augustus, you would use "Tu."
And he would shout, "I'M BRIAN BLESSED!" and then have me exiled.
Generally in front of 'bastard'.
B*st*rd" can be a term of endearment here, esp with "old" in front of it
. Besides, it's not the pronoun that's the "rude word" in that phrase 
Why?
I mean, ok, it has a lot to do with hierachy and deference... but on the other hand it also shows some kind of respect...I´d find it rather strange and impolite if I´d adress someone older than myself who is not family or friend in an informal way...or someone higher in hierachy, like my professor. Not that everyone old or in a high position is wise and nice and what not... and I also don´t respect everyone, just because he or she is older or higher in hierachy, but still...I could not drop the formal thing, unless the other wishes me to do so and offers to me to be informal with him or her. And even than I´d find it hard to do and would need some time to be able to feel comfortable with it.
TerokNor
Theoretically, we are all equal human beings. So a single mode of address that indicates that all humans are worthy of equal dignity is a good thing. Also, it just layers on another stratum of unnecessary social rules whose main value would be to get humorously violated in sitcoms.* (More, parochially, such systems are harder to learn.
)Throwing in a "sir" or "ma'am" is enough for me. On the other hand, the Japanese model, for example, is needlessly, comically deferential. Although I may find that to be so due to my main exposure to the Japanese model being through cartoons.
*Now, if we had a set of pronouns for how we actually felt about someone, that might have a good use, and let us all know where we stand. Deckerd mentioned the English prototype for a pronoun referring to someone we feel negatively toward, but it would have to gain more widespread adoption. I nominate "You sexy colossus" for those toward whom we feel positive emotions.
I hate being called "ma'am" too.
Unless someone knows you well enough to know you're married, it would be dire manners to call you Mrs., though.
Well, in my case, I graduated in English language and lit. and it's my profession to speak it/write it/translate from/into it, and I use it every day online... so no, it's certainly not a problem. In fact, I've been using English so much over the years (online, mostly) that speaking and writing English comes as naturally as if it was my native tongue.
Though maybe I should try joining some French forum to hone my French language skills...
Though maybe I should try joining some French forum to hone my French language skills...
In Texas, it's fairly common to hear "Ma'am" and "Sir," to address people you don't know well--particularly from people doing business or in the service industry.
One of our neighbors will frequently greet us with "Ma'am" or "Sir," as we pass his home, and I expect my nieces and nephews to respond with "Yes, Ma'am" whenever I give them instruction.
One odd cultural behavior I have noticed in Texas is how women are addressed in the workplace. It seems common for people to refer to female co-workers as "Miss Jennifer" or "Ms. Susan" while the male co-workers, even those in authority, are frequently referred to solely by their first names, "Bob," "Joe," etc. I always found it strange to hear, "Yes, sir, Bob. Right away," instead of "Yes, Mr. So-and-so."
But I suppose that many places in Texas are far more laid back, despite still clinging to some of the Southern traditions.
One of our neighbors will frequently greet us with "Ma'am" or "Sir," as we pass his home, and I expect my nieces and nephews to respond with "Yes, Ma'am" whenever I give them instruction.
One odd cultural behavior I have noticed in Texas is how women are addressed in the workplace. It seems common for people to refer to female co-workers as "Miss Jennifer" or "Ms. Susan" while the male co-workers, even those in authority, are frequently referred to solely by their first names, "Bob," "Joe," etc. I always found it strange to hear, "Yes, sir, Bob. Right away," instead of "Yes, Mr. So-and-so."
But I suppose that many places in Texas are far more laid back, despite still clinging to some of the Southern traditions.
I think the wedding ring I've been wearing for more than half my life might be a bit of a "give-away"I hate being called "ma'am" too.
Unless someone knows you well enough to know you're married, it would be dire manners to call you Mrs., though.
. It's more common to use Ms here anyway (much to MIL's annoyance
) - I've used Ms since I was 18.
I agree with you. I prefer not to drop the formality sometimes. On the opposite, I feel forced informality to be bothersome, rude, and condescending. There is nothing more irritating than someone who just met and who tries to behave like your best friend. Keep your distance, man. I don't know you.
I look forward to you addressing the US President as "Barry" on your first meeting. The T-V distinction may sound weird or convoluted to an English-speaker, but there is no difference with the convention of first name/last name basis.
Social rules are everything but of unnecessary. Languages live on a rather thing edge between simplicity of communication and complexity of meaning. I for one would never want a language that has no ambiguity: for example, humour would be virtually impossible in that setting.Also, it just layers on another stratum of unnecessary social rules whose main value would be to get humorously violated in sitcoms.* (More, parochially, such systems are harder to learn.
Hmm..I find Ma´am and Sir have a certain charme really. But using it with the first name does sound a bit..strange. *L*
Here its usually Mr. and Mrs. and last name and formal form. Well or sometimes its first name (but without Mr. or Mrs.) and fomal form..like the Profs use that way with us, while we use the former said with them.
TerokNor
You don't call an adult by their given name until they give you permission. Until such time as President Obama says, "you may call me Barry", you call him Mr Obama/ President Obama. Just as you call me Mrs/ Ms W... until I tell you that you may call me by my first name.
Unless it's children addressing their dance teacher or Preschool teacher, I've only ever heard that here in the work place when we're playing silly beggers amongst the staff, never in front of the clients.
Uh, I know that.
I think you are missing the point. I was replying to Myasishchev's argument that having just a single mode of address (in regard to the formal T-V distinction or Japanese honourifics) was ideal, pointing out that English has its own formal style of address too.
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