Why should i pay $14 to enter the US?

[Alidar Jarok]

If you can't afford to tip fully for good service, you shouldn't be eating at a restaurant. Order fast food, takeout, or make your own food.

Again, you aren't being realistic.

Going somewhere to eat is fun and entertainment. A busy family of four may want to go out to eat sometime to escape and not have to cook and clean up after a busy day.

What's crazy is implying that they can't afford to eat at a restaurant because they tip 15% instead of 20%.

Would you be OK with someone skipping out on the bill if they can't afford to pay for the whole meal? Is it not realistic to force a family to pay for the entire meal if they want to escape and not have to cook and clean up after a busy day?

You do realize your 20% minimum tip level for satisfactory service is higher than the average persons? (or the other waiters/waitresses that have posted in this thread must consistently give less than satisfactory service)

First, I think it might be helpful to clear up what I mean by satisfactory service. Essentially, I mean "nothing to complain about." If there were things you disliked, then it's perfectly reasonable to give less.

Second, as I said before, most people lack knowledge of the reality of the restaurant industry. Plenty of people think 15% is the norm because they believe servers make minimum wage. They don't realize that servers get paid 2.23 an hour. They don't realize that many aren't allowed to start getting that wage until they get their first table (so, if there is nobody eating, they sit around not getting paid). They don't realize that if a server is about to work more than 40 hours in a week, their hours are "rolled back" so they essentially only get paid through tips. Therefore, while 20% should be the norm, no one, including me, expects everyone to be aware of this, so the actual amount given is quite often less. Judging from my experience, the server range is from 15% average to about 22%.

 

[Amaris]

Are you just picking and choosing random parts of people's arguments to respond to? Because I really feel like you're ignoring things we've been saying.

Alidar just said he expects 15%. He just said it. In the very post that you are quoting!

We do NOT consider 20% the expected minimum. We consider it the expected average. We're going to get tips that are less. We're going to get tips that are more. I would never expect anyone to tip more than 20%. I'm glad when they do, obviously, but I never expect it. Again, I expect people to tip somewhere between 15-20%.

Again, you aren't being realistic.

Going somewhere to eat is fun and entertainment. A busy family of four may want to go out to eat sometime to escape and not have to cook and clean up after a busy day.

What's crazy is implying that they can't afford to eat at a restaurant because they tip 15% instead of 20%.

Going to the movies is entertainment, too. So is going on vacation. If you can't afford those things, you don't do them. Tipping is a part of the cost of dining in a restaurant and being waited on. If you can't afford to do it properly, don't go out to dinner at those restaurants.

I don't think it's helping. Look, I understand that you need tips to survive, but most people think tips are just a complimentary income and nothing more. They don't realize that without a 15%-20% average tip, you're actually losing money. Of course, that's not your fault. I blame businesses that use you as wage slaves that need to piggyback off the good humor and fortune of a customer to make anything approaching decent money.

Unfortunately, when you explain this, it makes you look like you feel you're entitled to a great tip and that a customer shouldn't eat at a restaurant that doesn't meet your standards of tipping unless they can afford those standards.

Like I said earlier, I tip $5 for myself and $2 for each friend, and that is regardless of whether they tip or not.

Quick scenario:

Now, to be fair, before we begin, a few things about myself: It doesn't matter to me whether you fill my drink without my having to signal, or whether I do have to signal. I understand that servers are busy, and usually have many tables to attend to. I rarely, if ever, complain, and if I need anything for my meal, I say so up front before you have to take care of the order. Too, I drink quite a bit (I'm more of a drinker than an eater), so I'll probably want that tea glass filled 3 or 4 times over the course of our dinner. Lastly, when I leave, I always put the plates, silverware and glasses in the center of the table, and I clean up any spill that may be on the table.

Now, if there were 6 people (myself and 5 friends) who ordered a nice dinner, and who needed occasional drink refills, and when we got the bill, after being there for an hour, our grand total came to $140, you would get $15 from me. That's a nudge above 10%. Would you consider that a bad tip?

 

[RoJoHen]

Now, if there were 6 people (myself and 5 friends) who ordered a nice dinner, and who needed occasional drink refills, and when we got the bill, after being there for an hour, our grand total came to $140, you would get $15 from me. That's a nudge above 10%. Would consider that a bad tip?

If the grand total was $140, I would expect somewhere between $20-30 from the table. If you paid for the entire bill and there was no other tip left, then yes, I would be disappointed with $15. I would probably roll my eyes and wonder what I did wrong.

And then, moments later, I would get over it and move on to my next table.

But that's the thing. When I get a shitty tip, it makes me feel bad. It makes me think that you had a bad experience or that I didn't do my job to your satisfaction.

 

[Amaris]

If the grand total was $140, I would expect somewhere between $20-30 from the table. If you paid for the entire bill and there was no other tip left, then yes, I would disappointed with $15.

And then, moments later, I would get over it and move on to my next table.

I want to work where you work. When I worked at Dell, I worked my ass off for $12 an hour. When I worked at Frisch's, I made $6 an hour as a busboy and cook. When I was a server at Golden Corral, no one ever wanted for drink refills, buttered rolls were always warm and on the table, napkins, more plates, when needed, silverware when needed, and I would run 12-20 tables at a time. My average tip was $2 per table.

I would kiss my customer's asses for a $15 tip.

 

[RoJoHen]

No offense, but Golden Corral is a buffet. I wouldn't expect good tips working there either.

 

[Amaris]

No offense, but Golden Corral is a buffet. I wouldn't expect good tips working there either.

Why not? I'm doing the lion's share of the work. Servers there made $2.35 an hour, just like most other places. Why couldn't I have 15%-20%?
Are you saying that bringing the food out is worth the other 13%-18%?

 

[RoJoHen]

I admit I've only been to Golden Corral once, but I don't even remember having a server there. I think maybe we had somebody drop off silverware and bus our table, but I was responsible for getting my own food and drinks.

 

[Amaris]

I admit I've only been to Golden Corral once, but I don't even remember having a server there. I think maybe we had somebody drop off silverware and bus our table, but I was responsible for getting my own food and drinks.

Food, yes, but drinks aren't (at least not here) self serve. When I was working there, plates weren't self serve either, though I think they are now. Other than getting your own food, the wait staff handled everything else from silverware to drinks to plates, the buttered rolls, bussing our tables, and so on.

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, everything was self-serve at the one that I went to.

 

[Amaris]

Well, everything was self-serve at the one that I went to.

That one may be region specific, then.

 

[RoJoHen]

'Tis possible.

 

[bigdaddy]

I think a random woman comes around and take the dirty plates, but I don't tip them either because it's never the same woman, it's just a random person working there and I don't trust them to share.

 

[Kestra]

Second, as I said before, most people lack knowledge of the reality of the restaurant industry. Plenty of people think 15% is the norm because they believe servers make minimum wage. They don't realize that servers get paid 2.23 an hour. They don't realize that many aren't allowed to start getting that wage until they get their first table (so, if there is nobody eating, they sit around not getting paid). They don't realize that if a server is about to work more than 40 hours in a week, their hours are "rolled back" so they essentially only get paid through tips. Therefore, while 20% should be the norm, no one, including me, expects everyone to be aware of this, so the actual amount given is quite often less. Judging from my experience, the server range is from 15% average to about 22%.

This is what I hate. It sounds like it's a bad deal for both the servers and the customers. Yet it seems like most people in the service industry are okay with the tip system and even would prefer it over building that cost into the price of the food and directly going to their wages. Or am I wrong about that? Do people in the restaurant industry hate it as much as I do?

 

[Captain Ice]

No offense, but Golden Corral is a buffet. I wouldn't expect good tips working there either.

Why not? I'm doing the lion's share of the work. Servers there made $2.35 an hour, just like most other places. Why couldn't I have 15%-20%?
Are you saying that bringing the food out is worth the other 13%-18%?

I admit I've only been to Golden Corral once, but I don't even remember having a server there. I think maybe we had somebody drop off silverware and bus our table, but I was responsible for getting my own food and drinks.

Food, yes, but drinks aren't (at least not here) self serve. When I was working there, plates weren't self serve either, though I think they are now. Other than getting your own food, the wait staff handled everything else from silverware to drinks to plates, the buttered rolls, bussing our tables, and so on.

You'll probably hate me for this, but I managed restaurants for Furr's Family Dining (another buffet) and found that a $1-$2 tip was about the norm for each table. We paid our servers straight minimum wage. The work they performed was exactly what you said you did at Golden Corral.

Message - If you're going to blame anyone for the wage problem there J, blame the cheapskates at Golden Corral.

Something else that BOTH of you need to know is that part of the legislation that allows restaurants to pay the waitstaff $2.43 per hour is a stipulation that requires the restaurant owner to make up the difference between what you earn in tips plus the $2.43 and the state minimum wage.

Well, everything was self-serve at the one that I went to.

A Golden Corral that is NOT totally self serve other than drinks is an extremely rare commodity. J, I've been in quite a number of buffets and have never seen a Golden Corral where the waitstaff brought you more than your drinks and maybe some bread.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Kestra. No, you're right. Servers generally do like it. There's an excellent book called Waiter Rant by Steve Dublanica, who also either writes or wrote a blog by the same name. There's a chapter called Waiter Rant that kind of explains it better than I can. He worked at a high-class New York restaurant, so the biggest difference is the dollar signs, but waiters are waiters everywhere. I'll try and see if I can find some excerpt that fits, but real quick, here's my random thoughts.

First, there's flexibility. It's the only low-skilled job (I won't call it unskilled) where you can work five hours and potentially make over $100. You can work nights and weekends or odd hours when needed and often those odd hours are the most profitable. At the same time, there's risk involved. It's possible to have a dead day where you make no money.

No matter what, I doubt you'd get guaranteed hours. If you're not needed, you're sent home. Tips at least allow that brief opportunity when everybody shows up at once at the full staff hasn't arrived where you have lots of tables, turn them quickly, and make a lot of money. And, when it's dead, you hope you can work your table as best you can, give them a great, memorable service, and maybe earn a little bit higher of a tip for your effort. If not, you'll essentially have wasted part of a day, but you can go home and do something with your free time (until bills become due, then you're begging people to take their shift, so you end up working 12-13 hours straight).

Spoiler: Excerpts from Waiter Rant

Waiters depend on tips to survive. As you've read, it can be a fairly irregular source of income. You might think it's a miracle anyone wants to wait tables in the first place, but, trust me, there's usually never a shortage of applicants. Waiting tables is as addictive as crack cocaine.
...
Because university registrars take perverse pride in designing Byzantine class schedules that offer mandatory courses only when Neptune's orbit intersects with Pluto's during a leap year, students' academic calendars are notoriously chaotic. Since restaurant jobs have more flexibility in scheduling than other jobs, many waiters are college students. It's a natural fit; students take classes during the day, work in the evening, and party into the wee hours of the night. Sleep? You've got to be kidding me.
Money is also a big factor. There are few jobs outside waiting tables where workers can make so much money in such a short amount of time. A normal evening shift usually lasts eight hours. A good waiter working in an upscale establishment can clear $200 a night, sometimes more. That's $25 an hour! Not all servers reach this level, of course, but even if they clear only $100 a night, that still works out to almost $13 an hour. That beats the hell out of working at the college bookstore or delivering pizza for minimum wage. Outside of drug dealing, dorm-room prostitution, and creating Web sites like MySpace, waiting tables provides the biggest financial bang for the least temporal buck.

At some other point, he essentially compares waiting tables to gambling. Some nights you win big, other nights you come out a loser. But, considering most people who are waiters don't have major attachments, they're willing to take the downs with the ups.

 

[creek_chub]

Second, as I said before, most people lack knowledge of the reality of the restaurant industry. Plenty of people think 15% is the norm because they believe servers make minimum wage. They don't realize that servers get paid 2.23 an hour. They don't realize that many aren't allowed to start getting that wage until they get their first table (so, if there is nobody eating, they sit around not getting paid). They don't realize that if a server is about to work more than 40 hours in a week, their hours are "rolled back" so they essentially only get paid through tips. Therefore, while 20% should be the norm, no one, including me, expects everyone to be aware of this, so the actual amount given is quite often less. Judging from my experience, the server range is from 15% average to about 22%.

This is what I hate. It sounds like it's a bad deal for both the servers and the customers. Yet it seems like most people in the service industry are okay with the tip system and even would prefer it over building that cost into the price of the food and directly going to their wages. Or am I wrong about that? Do people in the restaurant industry hate it as much as I do?

A majority of the people working in this business (and I hate to stereotype, but my personal experiences seem to back this up) are not educated enough to really realize that it can be a bad deal. They're able to pay their bills and, to them, that's all that matters.

Many of the others working in this business are those who are in the process of becoming educated (college students) and basically grin and bear it for the short term because they can work a few nights a week and make the same amount (or more) than if they were working a full time minimum wage job. They're secure in the idea that their education will translate into a much better job someday in the near future and so they aren't invested enough to try and change the situation.

What I really felt were raw deals were pulling doubles. You work from the time the restaurant opens to the time the restaurant closes and you might be lucky to get a break (maybe a half hour, maybe an hour) somewhere during the day. On weekends it can be hard to get that break, though. You could make some serious money pulling doubles, but I'd be so physically and mentally wrung out and sore by the end of them that it hardly felt worth it.

 

[Amaris]

You'll probably hate me for this, but I managed restaurants for Furr's Family Dining (another buffet) and found that a $1-$2 tip was about the norm for each table. We paid our servers straight minimum wage. The work they performed was exactly what you said you did at Golden Corral.

Message - If you're going to blame anyone for the wage problem there J, blame the cheapskates at Golden Corral.

Oh, I do! Also, there'd be no reason for me to hate you for simply saying something that's true. I think our Golden Corral is an anomaly, or each region may be operated differently. Now, minimum wage and tips? That would have been cool.

Something else that BOTH of you need to know is that part of the legislation that allows restaurants to pay the waitstaff $2.43 per hour is a stipulation that requires the restaurant owner to make up the difference between what you earn in tips plus the $2.43 and the state minimum wage.

Huh. I didn't know that.

A Golden Corral that is NOT totally self serve other than drinks is an extremely rare commodity. J, I've been in quite a number of buffets and have never seen a Golden Corral where the waitstaff brought you more than your drinks and maybe some bread.

Leave it to Ohio, then, to break that mold.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yes, you're supposed to boost it up to minimum wage. I have no idea if it is calculated daily, weekly, monthly, etc. My belief is it simply is not calculated. Even if it were, there are plenty of other shady or potentially illegal things restaurants do that ensure that your wage will never truly equal hours worked.

 

[iguana_tonante]

The experience of people working as waiters who wrote in this thread made me realize that I could never wait tables as a living. I hate having to deal with stupid people. And bossy people. And loud people. Well, ok: I hate having to deal with people. And having to pamper them? I will probably go into a murderous rampage and kill 'em with a spork.

 

[Myasishchev]

Yes, you're supposed to boost it up to minimum wage. I have no idea if it is calculated daily, weekly, monthly, etc. My belief is it simply is not calculated. Even if it were, there are plenty of other shady or potentially illegal things restaurants do that ensure that your wage will never truly equal hours worked.

It's definitely not calculated daily, as I've had a few awful days, and never got a makeup wage. The alternative is, as you say, that my bosses were scoundrels; certainly possible.

Being somewhat familiar with the managerial end of restaurant work, it's sort of surprising how much pressure there is to keep labor costs low, and how thin their margins really are. Edit: about 4% pre-tax, according to the first thing I looked up, which is always the best.

Regarding Golden Corral, the one here has waitstaff that refill your drinks. I usually tip them a bit over 20%, because 1)I know many people who go to the GC are cheap fucksticks and 2)the bill is usually very low. Of course, I don't go to buffets much anymore because it's hard to justify paying ~$12 to eat melon slices, fried okra, and some cookies.