6x01 The Impossible Astronaut (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[FlapJoy]

Regarding River in the series 6 premiere...

How bout it IS our Doctor that is killed (no clone or anything else) and he invited his friends to witness his death purposely to keep it from happening...

He said he's tired of running, that he wants to stop running, as if the Doctor is in some kind of trouble that he can't escape from on his own. So, he faces the consequences of whatever's hunting him and allows his friends to witness his fate so they may serve to keep it from happening... including himself.

That's why he wanted his body burned so when the "Scooby-Who" gang solve the mystery and save him there's no duplicate Doctor's corpse left in the past... tying up the lose ends before it even begins.

Maybe Canton (?) has something to do with the Doctor's trouble, and must be convinced the Doctor is dead for some reason, the Doctor knowing once again that his friends will save him and close the loop.

...AND, I also think the little girl is River AND is in the space suit, and this episode is when she first meets the stranger that knows all about her (the Doctor). I think she's in the astronaut suit as another younger version of herself (but older than a little girl) and kills the Doctor as part of a complicated plan for which is why older River can't seem to shoot straight at the astronaut because she remembers this all happening; so she fails, on purpose, to hit the astronaut even though she's a crack shot (shooting the Doctors' Stetson off his head earlier in the episode, and his tossed up Fez last season)... the Doctor could also be who she kills to land herself in space prison (killing a great man)... another part of the plan that is formulated in the latter 200 years of the older Doctor's life.

The future Doctors TARDIS is in the lake she emerges from (lake, river, pond?? get it?) which is how she arrives there and then disappears. And is why she was taught to fly the TARDIS at some point in her life with the Doctor, as this may play out all thru River's younger life.

River makes no effort to find the assassin, tells the others to let this play out, keeping Amy and Rory from telling the Doctor and finally understanding what her life has all been about. (The space suit is possibly also a nod to when the Doctor first met River in the library, she was wearing a white space suit). This all still means that River can still meet the Doctor at different points in their seperate time streams for the rest of the series, but now we'll know who she is and what her connection to the Doctor is all about... spoilers.

 

[Count Zero]

Didn't you already post this?

And they can talk, too. (ETA: Unless that's what you were referring to) Which, come to think of it, may be Moffet recycling his "alien steals victim's voice" gimmick. Again.

Except that was RTD's "gimmick"

I'm trying to think when RTD used it, but all I'm coming up with is Moffet's "Silence in the Library" and "Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone." What others were there?

Midnight, unless you mean something else by it.

 

[Gepard]

Midnight, unless you mean something else by it.

Indeed. I mean aliens that couldn't talk except by murdering someone and using their voice/brain patterns, like the Vashta Nerada or the Angels. Those couldn't say a word until they killed and took the consciousnesses/voices of Anita and Bob respectively. The Silent seemed to do the same thing -- it murdered Joy and only then could it say something. The creature in Midnight possessed what's-her-name and could make her speak before it took the Doctor's voice, and didn't kill them to do it, so it's a little different.

 

[FlapJoy]

Didn't you already post this?

OH yeah... I did. I've been posting it in a lot of forums, I guess I'm getting a bit frazzled.

 

[Australis]

^ And... breathe...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

This is an interesting notion. "An impressionable young girl ... and suddenly this man just drops out of the sky. He's clever and mad and wonderful..." This could easily be little girl "Jefferson's" view of the Doctor as well. This version of River's first encounter with the Doctor also dovetails nicely with the Doctor's first encounter with River ... she was wearing a space suit then, too.

She knows why she's in prison, right? Wouldn't she also have known why they were on the beach and not been surprised when the Doctor died?

 

[Classic Fan]

I thought it was Moff at his mindfucky best.

I love the fact that me and a couple of mates could sit and watch an intelligently written mindfucky piece of TV in the knowledge that it entertains us during and for 7 and 1.2 days afterwards.

Ill leave my theorie for below, dont want to repeat myself.

Did anyone think Matt smith looked older in some scenes?

Me and a couple Whovian mates have a mindfucky theory on that.

We suspect that he IS older than the prime Doctor, but also, the prime Doctor is the same Doctor that has just been essentially murdered/excecuted Stay with me...

What usually happens with Moff is that he distinguishes different versions of his doctor with, say, different bow ties/braces and shirts. Notice that both were wearing exactly the same clothes, even the purple-ish braces shirt and tie, and even his hair, were all exactly the same as the 1,103 Doctor.

And the makup was suspiciously different, eye makeup and even foundation was slightly, well, off from the usual. And when has Eleven ever had perfectly gromed hair?(disregarding the comic relief mini eps) Twice? And being apparently two versions of the same Doctor? The fact the 1,103 doctor and the prime 2011/909yr Doctor had the same everything just flagged up to us, thus this theory.

Also, the diaries. Its obvious that the 1,103 Doctor has Rivers diary, afterall, hes the only one who knows where and when he left it after she died. He maybe working his way backward to points in rivers meetings with the eleventh doctor to figure out what the hell is going on and to subtly guide them. And River, in the guise of Moff in TBB finale, litterally told the audience that the Doctor lies, and its rule 1. So in that case, which doctor is lying to who.

In a nutshell, both Doctors are older and somewhere/somewhen/somehow, our prime 909/2011 doctor is lurking around, possibly in an apollo astronaut suit.

I trust Moff to work it out, and hopefully he will.

Something I was wondering about that didn't get noticed, but where was the future Doctors Tardis? We saw a glimpse of the Present Doctors Tardis in the Diner but no mention or any idea if the Future one is about?

We reckon its the same Tardis, as in the same Doctor, in the theory above, just slightly after his Vader style funeral pyre. We think he may be slightly manipulating all of them in a way that wont craete a paradox, an ever so slight interference with his own past thats not too ott to cause catastrophic damage.


Oh, and another thing. no sonic. anywhere. didnt use it at all during the investigation in the warehouse-esque scene. Not even to scan for either life or info on the situation, or even to find out if the phone had been used at all. and thats odd, why? Unless Moff is using the no sonic for everything move (AKA: A kettle and some string)

And also, hopefully finally, the child in the suit is either Rory and Amys daughter, who in turn ends up to be River. Or, by some perverse reason, is the Doctors daughter with Amy. Seriously though, we had a Back to The Future moment where twice, Amy and River, both felt a pain in their abdomen, suggesting that as the story progressed, whoever was the mother/child were feeling the effect of slowly being erased from the future/and past Amy shooting.


All speculation but now i must go and sleep all that off.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Midnight, unless you mean something else by it.

Indeed. I mean aliens that couldn't talk except by murdering someone and using their voice/brain patterns, like the Vashta Nerada or the Angels. Those couldn't say a word until they killed and took the consciousnesses/voices of Anita and Bob respectively. The Silent seemed to do the same thing -- it murdered Joy and only then could it say something. The creature in Midnight possessed what's-her-name and could make her speak before it took the Doctor's voice, and didn't kill them to do it, so it's a little different.

I'm certainly thinking of Midnight (and to a certain extent the Ood, and Cassandra's bodysnatching).

The Vashta Nerada were bodysnatching - again more an RTD trait - while there's no evidence that Silent couldn't talk until it killed Joy... it simply didn't reply until after she was dead and unable to hear the message it had for Amy. It didn't have Joy's voice.

So that just leaves the Angels last season for using someone else's voice (though I suppose Prisoner Zero could count, though it's just copying people, like, say, the Zygons used to do)

 

[Pavonis]

Anyone know what River meant by the line "No of course not" after she had tried to shoot the Astronaut? Maybe because the Astronaut is her?

River had a six-shooter, but only fired five bullets at the astronaut. She was surprised when there was no sixth bullet to fire, then remembered that she wasted a bullet shooting the Doctor's Stetson off his head, and subsequently muttered to herself "Of course not".

 

[DAK]

Finally watched the Confidential. Matt Smith's different dances for the Laurel and Hardy segment had me in tears! Too bad they didn't use the dance he did at Amy and Rory's wedding.

 

[Tom]

We suspect that he IS older than the prime Doctor, but also, the prime Doctor is the same Doctor that has just been essentially murdered/excecuted Stay with me...

What usually happens with Moff is that he distinguishes different versions of his doctor with, say, different bow ties/braces and shirts. Notice that both were wearing exactly the same clothes, even the purple-ish braces shirt and tie, and even his hair, were all exactly the same as the 1,103 Doctor.



Oh, and another thing. no sonic. anywhere. didnt use it at all during the investigation in the warehouse-esque scene. Not even to scan for either life or info on the situation, or even to find out if the phone had been used at all. and thats odd, why? Unless Moff is using the no sonic for everything move (AKA: A kettle and some string)

Great points i was going to post some of them to. We have seen some variants of 11 costume now but you right when after 200 years everything is exactly the same including his hair length. Then there is is the bearded Doctor in the previw for next week, whats up with that?

 

[marillion]

^^ He wears a beard now.. Beards are cool..

Sorry.. Had to say it..

 

[Mr Awe]

Was alright. Not fantastic but it had intriguing moments. Didn't gel as a whole though. So far, a waste of the 1969 American setting. Maybe that changes in part 2?

Mr Awe

 

[RTOlson]

Based on trailers and interviews, it sounds like they do a decent amount more with the Utah setting in the next episode.

 

[I Grok Spock]

I enjoyed it. I love that I never have any idea what the hell is going to happen next on this show. That's refreshing.

 

[Electric Coleslaw]

Maybe I missed it in the last 20 pages of discussion but was there any significance of the Doctor requesting a fez from the WH?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Maybe I missed it in the last 20 pages of discussion but was there any significance of the Doctor requesting a fez from the WH?

Fez are cool, allegedly.

 

[RevdKathy]

Didn't Martha say that she and Ten had been to the moon landings twice? Or am I mis-remembering?

For that matter, Ten is around somewhere in 1969 courtesy of the weeping angels, isn't he?

Edit: It wasn't twice. It was four times - and Martha does say it in 'Blink'

The Doctor: 1969. Not bad as it goes. You’ve got the moon landing to look forward to.
Martha: Oh, the moon landing’s brilliant! We went four times. Back when we had transport.

 

[Mr Awe]

Here's a thought: the Lodger TARDIS is the future Doctor's TARDIS. It's fine if I'm wrong. just throwing it out there as a possibility.

I've wondered about that. The season previews showed the past TARDIS, we've got the present TARDIS of course, why not a future version?

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

Anyone know what River meant by the line "No of course not" after she had tried to shoot the Astronaut?

Don't you know? Guns never work against aliens when you really need them too!

Mr Awe