Ironically, Spock is the one cited as having a problem with firing phasers (by McCoy, I believe), even though he doesn't seem to exhibit such a problem when it comes down to it.
Star Trek Phase II Enemy: Starfleet! Now Released!
- Thread starter GSchnitzer
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Ironically, Spock is the one cited as having a problem with firing phasers (by McCoy, I believe), even though he doesn't seem to exhibit such a problem when it comes down to it.
Let me add my congrats to everyone else regarding "Enemy: Starfleet." It was fun to watch and I know we're not supposed to be wowed by the special effects, but they were superlative (if I could think of a stronger word, I'd use it). The enemy ship looked fantastic, and the little ships shooting at the Enterprise were terrific.
I know I'm nitpicking at this, but would there happen to be a barber shop at the starbase where Peter and Chekov could get a "mop chop?" I realize you folks are basing your style on the 1960s and '70s, but to me in 2011, it often looked like Peter was wearing an admiral's hat. That could have been used in the story if Chekov had grabbed Ensign Kirk's hair and held him back from running out in front of the enemy attackers.
Still, that didn't diminish my enjoyment of the episode, and when I get back to doing Fan Film Friday columns, this will be one of the first independent productions I'll review.
Again, well done to everyone for "Enemy: Starfleet."
I know I'm nitpicking at this, but would there happen to be a barber shop at the starbase where Peter and Chekov could get a "mop chop?" I realize you folks are basing your style on the 1960s and '70s, but to me in 2011, it often looked like Peter was wearing an admiral's hat. That could have been used in the story if Chekov had grabbed Ensign Kirk's hair and held him back from running out in front of the enemy attackers.
Still, that didn't diminish my enjoyment of the episode, and when I get back to doing Fan Film Friday columns, this will be one of the first independent productions I'll review.
Again, well done to everyone for "Enemy: Starfleet."
number6
Vice Admiral
Nope.
My post was a misunderstanding and we "kissed and made up" only a few posts later. I consider the matter resolved and we have moved on, bought a house in the country and have two cats named Trudy and Boxer. We also love long walks along the sidewalk next to the radioactive landfill and have picnics every Sunday, feasting on egg salad sandwiches and bottles of rancid YooHoo, tossing aside our inhibitions about homeless midgets and letting our freak flags fly. We're naked, but happy. Can you say the same? I think not.
Okay, those last three posts were awesome.
Well, now I will Take my turn here. The sets, costumes, props and effects are far beyond what did and were able to do back in the day. The work done here is on a par with what can be shown today on regular television. It's the directing and scritpt edit that needs to be addressed. They have all of the capability but no nuts and bolts that make any stage production and that is all that any "television show, movie ect." is. A good school drama teacher could be of great use if you are not using one. I can hear my old director snapping her fingers offstage right now if there was a pacing issue involved onstage while we were in the middle of a performance.
New Voyages has the right stuff...It is awesome and I want more of it. If I were a professional drama critic I would rip you a new one but I am not.
You have the right stuff...stick to the basics...acting before action!!!
New Voyages has the right stuff...It is awesome and I want more of it. If I were a professional drama critic I would rip you a new one but I am not.
You have the right stuff...stick to the basics...acting before action!!!
Just picturing that scene makes me need a drink.
YooHoo mixed with Vodka?? if so i'm down with that. lol
Really? With the exception of the bridge the sets are small and don't look as good as the TOS sets. The costumes look just like the TOS costumes, except for the Paramount Phase II stuff. The effects, easily granted.
It's good for a fanfilm, but it's not TV quality. There are just too many technical mistakes. For instance, at 48:28 there's a shot of Kirk where it looks like there's an unprocessed greenscreen behind him, and his eyeline to Alersa is a total mismatch with the other shots in the scene. Eyelines on the bridge rarely match, Spock looks screen left to say something to Kirk, and Kirk looks screen left to reply to Spock, so the cuts don't match. Uhura almost never appears to be looking at whom she's speaking to. That's basic stuff.
To be fair, these problems are not unique to Phase II. They're all over fanfilms in general. I used (with permission) a Starship Intrepid scene as an example of eyelines (good and bad). Heck, I've had to do some fiddling around with Starship Exeter footage to fix some of these very same types of problems there (the position of Cutty's station led to some oddball mismatched eyelines).
I think we're in agreement here. "Fix it on the page" is the best advice, ever, for filmmakers. And any director and editor working on a show like this should have a basic understanding of the language of film.
I understand the difficult circumstances in which these shows are made, so I try not to be too hard on them. But many fans constantly compare it to professional productions, which is not a fair comparison.
Well, maybe you're not seeing the same film everyone else is. Or maybe you just want to pick at problems that don't actually exist.
The sets are EXACT re-creations of the originals, and are sized accurately. I've been there to PHASE II, and I've seen the Originals in person. The sets at PHASE II are an EXACT match, so much so that Paramount actually used parts of them as reference on a couple of episodes of ENTERPRISE. Our sets are FAR more accurate than the sets seen at the STAR TREK EXHIBITION.
You don't have to believe me - just ask George, Walter, Nichelle, or Gene Roddenberry, Jr. They've worked with us as well.
There was almost NO green screen work in this episode other than the matte shot I created of the Warp Core, and even THAT was not filmed as a GS shot.
I will also say that, having worked in The Industry all my life, our filming and VFX work is NOT television-quality...
It's MOTION PICTURE-QUALITY. If you think you can do better, join us! We can always use more help.
If you're gonna pick away at eyelines in scenes, you're not really enjoying the show - you're LOOKING for things to gripe about. I refer you to the TOS episode THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR.
Constructive criticism is one thing - but your remarks sound like someone who is saying anything against our work just to sound authoritative.
Almost ALL films have mistakes. That's simply what happens in a collaborative process of art that is also highly technical and time-consuming to create.
I think ENEMY: STARFLEET is very much a full-fledged STAR TREK episode, no matter who made it or what its budget was.
^^^It's really hard to fairly judge Phase II since it really is beyond the "Hey Kids Let's Put on a Show!" type of production. However, you have to remember how much they're doing with so little in terms of fiscal, human and technical resources. At times it's a little frustrating, since they're sooooo close to really taking the next step. I enjoy the work, admire the effort and marvel at the continued improvement. I really have nothing beyond DS9Sega's admonition to "fix it on the page". That's one place where the time between shoots can actually be an advantage. With the improvements in acting and technical/visual effects, the next frontier is tightening up scripts and finding those pitfalls that tell the viewer that they are watching something other than a fully professional production. All that said, before anyone is tempted to be overly critical (or even mildy critical) I would say go back and look at the first effort and compare it to the later work and try to digest just how vast the improvement is. To me the changes and improvements are nothign short of staggering.
Don't be delusional. I haven't worked in "The Industry", but having worked in "The Audience", I know motion picture quality when I see it. And I seriously don't see it here.
Is that bad? Hell no. It's a low budget fan film, and for being that, it looks pretty good.
I don't think it's accurate to say I am looking for things to complain about. As I have said, all fanfilms suffer from these problems. But facts are facts. Phase II doesn't have full sets any bigger, as complete, or better than those on TOS, otherwise we'd have seen them. Ergo for someone to say the sets are better than those on TOS are a fair topic to argue.
As to the eyelines, sure there are TOS episodes where they screwed it up. Happens all the time even in big budget movies, but it doesn't happen as much as in fanfilms. Again, the question is what standard are we applying here? Are we comparing fanfilms to fanfilms, or to professional TV productions, as many fans do?
Re constructive criticism: I do think my criticism is constructive. In fact, I started an entire topic dedicated to sharing techniques so that fan filmmakers can learn from each other and avoid common mistakes. When I do critique, you won't see me saying something sucks or is stupid. I point out very specifically where I think there are problems. Eyelines and matched cuts--to use the example--are a common place virtually all fanfilms fall down a lot.
Frankly, taking criticism is part and parcel of creative work. You can either be thin-skinned about it, or accept that there's always room for improvement. As someone who's worked in creativity-on-demand industries for over 25 years, including for licenses such as Star Trek, I accept that and take my lumps. That said, "If you can do better" isn't a fair comeback to reasonable critique, because, after all, you can tell an architect that a wall is crooked even if you don't know how to frame a house.
As to the eyelines, sure there are TOS episodes where they screwed it up. Happens all the time even in big budget movies, but it doesn't happen as much as in fanfilms. Again, the question is what standard are we applying here? Are we comparing fanfilms to fanfilms, or to professional TV productions, as many fans do?
Re constructive criticism: I do think my criticism is constructive. In fact, I started an entire topic dedicated to sharing techniques so that fan filmmakers can learn from each other and avoid common mistakes. When I do critique, you won't see me saying something sucks or is stupid. I point out very specifically where I think there are problems. Eyelines and matched cuts--to use the example--are a common place virtually all fanfilms fall down a lot.
Frankly, taking criticism is part and parcel of creative work. You can either be thin-skinned about it, or accept that there's always room for improvement. As someone who's worked in creativity-on-demand industries for over 25 years, including for licenses such as Star Trek, I accept that and take my lumps. That said, "If you can do better" isn't a fair comeback to reasonable critique, because, after all, you can tell an architect that a wall is crooked even if you don't know how to frame a house.
I'm not being thin-skinned, I'm calling out a remark(s) that are simply not accurate.
The sets are FULL-SCALE reproductions. I have been to both PHASE II sets and the Originals. They are identical, with the exception that our sets have WORKING computer screens, something that did not exist during the filming of TOS. The only standing set we don't have is Engineering. We simply don't have room. Yet. The Bridge, Briefing Room, Transporter Room, and the treatment bed area in Sickbay, ALL are full-sized reproductions.
"If you can do better" is a perfectly fair comeback when the person being responded-to makes arguments that are both circular and inaccurate. Since you have not been to the sets in person, I can say, with total accuracy, that when it comes to our sets you don't know what you're talking about.
Films are films. We make ours to as high a professional standard as was used on any of the other TREK shows. Our scripts were written by the original writers in many cases. Saying the writing is poorly-done, in this case, is simply subjective. I liked it, and I say my argument holds as much, if not more, weight as yours.
But, once again, it's easy to sit on your chair and make snarky criticisms. If you really think we can improve and are not doing-so to your standards, by all means, JOIN US. Maybe you have a talent we can use, like writing.
But it's so much easier to sit and complain rather than putting your arguments to the test. We bust our humps to make something that STAR TREK fans will, hopefully, enjoy, and we ask nothing in return.
For some people, though, that's never gonna be good enough. As I said, we've got the blessings of, approval of, and help of many people who worked both in front of, and behind, the camera on ALL of the TREK shows and films. They all say our sets are the best they've ever seen, easily comparable-to if not better than, the sets on TOS. I really don't see how your remarks of our lack of accuracy stand-up to the publicly-stated remarks of Nichelle, Walter, George, Rod, Doug Drexler, David Gerrold, or any of the other pros who made their living on TREK and have told us, repeatedly, that we're the best out there, hands-down.
I swear I'm not choosing sides here...
But for what it's worth, I appreciate the fact that people on this board take the time to view our efforts and then provide feedback to aid in the process of improving the product.
I have found DS9Sega's comments very constructive and generally spot-on. Is there room for disagreement? Of course. But I've always felt that the intention was to aid the fanfilm makers and never to diminish or denegrate their efforts, P2 included.
So, thanks for that.
But for what it's worth, I appreciate the fact that people on this board take the time to view our efforts and then provide feedback to aid in the process of improving the product.
I have found DS9Sega's comments very constructive and generally spot-on. Is there room for disagreement? Of course. But I've always felt that the intention was to aid the fanfilm makers and never to diminish or denegrate their efforts, P2 included.
So, thanks for that.
DS9Sega hasn't said anything here that isn't observant, fair minded and well-expressed. There's little that I'd disagree with, as regards fan films in general. Those of us working on other fan productions, like Intrepid and Exeter, have appreciated his experience and insight a great deal. "Snarky" he is not.
We manage to have reasonable, mutually helpful and supportive conversations in this forum for the most part. Even polite technical criticism is sometimes difficult to hear when one has invested a great deal of personal time and treasure in projects that are by necessity done for the love of it, so the fact that everyone's generally so mature about it all is quite remarkable.
I hope we can keep that up, and not entirely because I understand that the new forum mod is a hard ass. Don't know much about her, really. I think she's a Romulan...
We manage to have reasonable, mutually helpful and supportive conversations in this forum for the most part. Even polite technical criticism is sometimes difficult to hear when one has invested a great deal of personal time and treasure in projects that are by necessity done for the love of it, so the fact that everyone's generally so mature about it all is quite remarkable.
I hope we can keep that up, and not entirely because I understand that the new forum mod is a hard ass. Don't know much about her, really. I think she's a Romulan...
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Expo67
Captain
I'd like to thank the Phase II people for the classy replies I received to my feedback. The positive replies indicate appreciation of my effort to offer feedback, and they encourage me to offer feedback in the future. In being appreciated, you earn my respect. Thanks.
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