Just had my first real work out.

[RAMA]

Trying to be nerd? What do you mean you are not stereotypical? I have to say there are probably a lot of us that aren't stereotypical on here either. I have a great respect for most of the people who come here.
RAMA

I think my point is that most stereotypes are pretty silly anyway. I don't think people who go to conventions are all single men living in their parents' basement.
I think Trekkies are surprisingly "normal".

Yes, well in general stereotypes suck...including ones about women not asking men out and Trekkers not working out.

 

[{ Emilia }]

living in a society where street harassment is acceptable by half the population.

Oh. Come. On.

 

[RoJoHen]

I love stereotypes. I just don't like the people that perpetuate them.

 

[thestrangequark]

^ why you were so harrassed may have been better to mention in the beginning.

No, because it's not why I'm harassed, it's likely why I experience so many instances of harassment. These are two different things. I am harassed because I am a reasonably attractive young woman living in a society where street harassment is acceptable by half the population. I am harassed perhaps more frequently than many other women because I do spend a lot of time by myself.

Curious....a POLL had 50% of men claim they had participated in street harassment in W. Heights? I find even that hard to believe. Who would admit to that?

The ones who think women like it.

living in a society where street harassment is acceptable by half the population.

Oh. Come. On.

I meant 50% of men. And it does sound outrageous, but I don't make unfounded claims. Give me a few minutes -- the source is the poll, I've cited it here before but my source website has since changed their layout and I'm having trouble finding it. I'm looking, though

 

[thestrangequark]

You know, I will take that statement back because I can't find that radio segment, and like I said, I don't make unfounded claims. However, from my memory: the poll conducted in Washington Heights by the BBC asked men (and obviously I'm paraphrasing) if they ever made comments to women they didn't know about their bodies on the street. Half of the men responded that they did, and many thought that women liked it. One man said something along the lines of (again paraphrasing), "They go through all that effort to look good and I'm just telling them I appreciate it." The other 50% of the men polled responded in the negative and most of these were unaware that it was an issue.

 

[Myasishchev]

I take full responsibility for my rantings. Though I did warn you!

You see what you've done now?!!!

You said you'd take responsibility!

You're right, I did bring up that stat and I think you're right about instances of sexual abuse of children being pretty close in number between boys and girls. However, I didn't mean to steer this into a discussion of pedophilia, just to highlight the fact that sexual assault is a very relavent issue for a lot of women.

Full concord here. I've known a woman (my still-cohabitant ex) who is frankly a little damaged in part because of sexual abuse and physical abuse when she was young.

Oh good! I don't think you were here for the anti-rape condom thread (you think I've a lot to say on the subject in here!)

Those things are real? I thought they were a 4chan joke or something.

Personally, I would probably just carry a knife. They're lighter than guns and easier to use.

Yeah, but I don't think women are actually having more sex, do you?

As you said, the amount of sex is equal. I don't think women are having more sex than men, but I do think more women are having sex than men. There are some (admittedly sketchy) studies which somewhat bear this out. And, as a thought experiment, it makes sense.

I mean, I don't have any numbers on the topic. And remember, for every guy who thinks he's a loser there's a girl who thinks she's too fat, or too ugly, or her breasts are too small...problems with sexual self-esteem are not confined to the male gender!

But this of course assumes a monogamous system. Which it isn't. I find it more likely that there's a smaller subset of men who are managing to have sex with a larger subset of women, and I expect that even the losers on each side are not experiencing quite the same outcomes, because of the easier access I discussed earlier. This is actually the natural state of things, looking at many social animals, which leads me to my next point, namely that nature is terrible.

That said, I think we can agree, on a basement level, that there is at least some disadvantage to being a man, if the goal is only sex. If nothing more than it simply requires more effort for a man--which I think was Trekker's point, and which I think is a good one, even if it's concededly a bit whiney. Given the emotional toll such unrewarded efforts can take, I don't think it's a completely marginal point, either.

Sorry, but

Why ? This isn't inaccurate. In the First World, women have dominion and control over their own pregnancy. No one has to be pregnant, at least for long; theoretically, it is a voluntary decision.

(There's also birth control, but we assume for the moment that's failed.)

Now I pretty much agree with how things have shaken out, but I think it's improper to pretend there aren't some real problems with it, namely that women can choose to be parents, but men have the choice made for them. It's only that the alternatives either leave children and mothers destitute, or are so anti-woman that they're truly unconscionable.

So I'm putting the ability to abort in the plus column, since--as a statement of fact--it is a right which women possess and men do not.

Forty years ago, I would conclude oppositely. But with effective birth control and Roe, it turns that frown upside down.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Men can choose to be fathers. It's called a condom. And because a woman's right to choose is constantly under threat and there are a hell of a lot of provisos. No matter what one's personal opinion of abortion, as abortion laws stand, in this country at least, I think it's clearly a far cry from "total dominon."

But I agree with everything else you said!

 

[{ Emilia }]

^Men can choose to be fathers. It's called a condom. And because a woman's right to choose is constantly under threat and there are a hell of a lot of provisos.

You make that sound like it's only up to the man whether or not a condom is used. Men who refuse to use a condom even though the woman wants it should just get booted out of the bedroom.

 

[Amaris]

Any man who truly respects a woman and her rights will wear a condom, particularly if the woman insists.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's really a shame that we don't have the ability to control our sperm with willpower.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Men can choose to be fathers. It's called a condom.

I think it's a little more complicated than that, especially in serious relationships... but I suppose this is basically correct.

OK, our birth control is a piece of plastic that covers our major erogenous zone, whereas yours is a pill that does not impact sexual activity. I think that's another goal for Team XX.

And because a woman's right to choose is constantly under threat and there are a hell of a lot of provisos. No matter what one's personal opinion of abortion, as abortion laws stand, in this country at least, I think it's clearly a far cry from "total dominon."

But I agree with everything else you said!

I think that's code for "my posts are getting too long, and it's time to talk about something else."

It just struck me though that maybe the reason I never see harassment down here is that it's a car culture, versus a walking/public transport culture.

 

[RAMA]

You know, I will take that statement back because I can't find that radio segment, and like I said, I don't make unfounded claims. However, from my memory: the poll conducted in Washington Heights by the BBC asked men (and obviously I'm paraphrasing) if they ever made comments to women they didn't know about their bodies on the street. Half of the men responded that they did, and many thought that women liked it. One man said something along the lines of (again paraphrasing), "They go through all that effort to look good and I'm just telling them I appreciate it." The other 50% of the men polled responded in the negative and most of these were unaware that it was an issue.

Hmmm, well this is dicey...you can compliment a woman arbitrarily about their body...or say "nice hair", or something along those lines without it being "harassment". So the 50% number doesn't mean this is harassment. Now maybe a much smaller percentage have said things that are rude, and they may not think of it as such, but they'd include both such incidents in the total.

I'm complimented fairly often and somewhat aggressively from time to time, but it hasn't slipped into harassment. OK, it occurred to me this might purely be my view, and a women would perceive it differently because I did have my crotch grabbed by an overzealous admirer last year...If the reverse happened, I'm sure I'd have been to jail...

RAMA

 

[thestrangequark]

^you're right, and I was wrong to cite that poll since I don't know the exact parameters. (Not to mention that I can't find it anymore, damn the erasure of interweb archives!

^Men can choose to be fathers. It's called a condom. And because a woman's right to choose is constantly under threat and there are a hell of a lot of provisos.

You make that sound like it's only up to the man whether or not a condom is used. Men who refuse to use a condom even though the woman wants it should just get booted out of the bedroom.

No argument there!

Yeah, I kept looking for the radio poll I cited, but I gave up. From personal experience, I'd say easily 50% of men in some neighborhoods of NYC engage in street harassment. I wish I could find it though, because I agree that it sounds ridiculous, and can see why people would dismiss such a claim as an exaggeration. However, I think I've made it clear that, in regards to this issue, I take specific precautions to avoid exaggeration, and upon elaboration of my experiences, it's pretty clear that I'm not just taking things the wrong way.

 

[{ Emilia }]

It just struck me though that maybe the reason I never see harassment down here is that it's a car culture, versus a walking/public transport culture.

I very much live in a walking/public transport culture and like I said I've never even made a single bad experience.

And just for the record: A random guy politely telling me that I'm pretty doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Myasishchev]

It's really a shame that we don't have the ability to control our sperm with willpower.

Well, we do. You've seen porn, of course. CI is actually pretty effective if used correctly and with discipline. 6 years, ~400 times, no pregnancy.

But people argue with me about this all the time.

 

[thestrangequark]

^Men can choose to be fathers. It's called a condom.

I think it's a little more complicated than that, especially in serious relationships... but I suppose this is basically correct.

OK, our birth control is a piece of plastic that covers our major erogenous zone, whereas yours is a pill that does not impact sexual activity. I think that's another goal for Team XX.

And because a woman's right to choose is constantly under threat and there are a hell of a lot of provisos. No matter what one's personal opinion of abortion, as abortion laws stand, in this country at least, I think it's clearly a far cry from "total dominon."

But I agree with everything else you said!

I think that's code for "my posts are getting too long, and it's time to talk about something else."

Well, I think after talking things out it's pretty clear that we are generally on the same page about things.

It just struck me though that maybe the reason I never see harassment down here is that it's a car culture, versus a walking/public transport culture.

I think this is definitely part of it. If more anecdotal evidence is acceptable, I definitely experienced more harassment in NYC than in Seattle, In Mexico City than in Puebla City, and in Mumbai than in Delhi.

ETA:

It just struck me though that maybe the reason I never see harassment down here is that it's a car culture, versus a walking/public transport culture.

I very much live in a walking/public transport culture and like I said I've never even made a single bad experience.

Or maybe I'm wrong!

And just for the record: A random guy politely telling me that I'm pretty doesn't bother me at all.

I feel the same way. In fact, it can make my day.

 

[Myasishchev]

Women seem to be nicer/less nervous in cars than on the street, too. I guess something about two tons of mobile metal gives a sense of greater safety.

So, my solution to the disconnect between the sexes is to give all women tanks.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's really a shame that we don't have the ability to control our sperm with willpower.

Well, we do. You've seen porn, of course. CI is actually pretty effective if used correctly and with discipline. 6 years, ~400 times, no pregnancy.

But people argue with me about this all the time.

I was thinking more about telepathically telling my sperm, "Stay away from the egg!"

 

[Myasishchev]

It's really a shame that we don't have the ability to control our sperm with willpower.

Well, we do. You've seen porn, of course. CI is actually pretty effective if used correctly and with discipline. 6 years, ~400 times, no pregnancy.

But people argue with me about this all the time.

I was thinking more about telepathically telling my sperm, "Stay away from the egg!"

I present a syllogism:

Aquaman commands all aquatic life. Sperm exist in an aqueous environment. Aquaman commands all sperm.

DC, I'm waiting on my contract.

I very much live in a walking/public transport culture and like I said I've never even made a single bad experience.

And just for the record: A random guy politely telling me that I'm pretty doesn't bother me at all.

I feel the same way. In fact, it can make my day.

You're both very pretty! As far as I know!

 

[RAMA]

Women seem to be nicer/less nervous in cars than on the street, too. I guess something about two tons of mobile metal gives a sense of greater safety.

So, my solution to the disconnect between the sexes is to give all women tanks.

If anything some are not nicer, they are more aggressive...I've seen some real nasty 5' tall women who THINK they are driving tanks!

Well, we do. You've seen porn, of course. CI is actually pretty effective if used correctly and with discipline. 6 years, ~400 times, no pregnancy.

But people argue with me about this all the time.

I was thinking more about telepathically telling my sperm, "Stay away from the egg!"

I present a syllogism:

Aquaman commands all aquatic life. Sperm exist in an aqueous environment. Aquaman commands all sperm.

DC, I'm waiting on my contract.

Sperm man?

RAMA