Sisko in RBoE..... SPOILERS!!!!!

[Mage]

I have read the book, and it actually read less like the begining of an arc and more like a part two. There were a lot of important events that happened to Sisko that shaped his outlook and decisions that were alluded to in RBoE, but not yet chronicled to us the readers (The Ascendants conflict and Rebecca's kidnapping to name two). I would be willing to believe that Sisko's actions may make more sense once we read the stories that shaped his perspective in RBoE.

This is the most logical assumption, but a lot of people seem to forget this, and think the writers decided to have Sisko act like this out of the blue. There are reasons for Sisko's behaviour, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of David R. George's books to be released in 2012 is going to deal with this. I certainly hope so.

Or it could just that part of the plot is badly written. I'm pretty sure that before he flounced off, George said that everything you needed to know was in that book.

Ofcourse everything we NEEDED to know to understand this novell was in the novell. But no complete details.

It really feels as if haters gonna hate in this topic, and lovers gonna love. It doesn't even feel like a discussion anymore. I think by now it's been established quite well that RBoE is one of those you love or you hate books. Which is ok I guess.
To me, the Sisko story works. For others, it just doesn't. I guess that's all there's too it.

 

[flemm]

You keep referring to your opinion in absolute terms, as if it's the only opinion/logical conclusion that can be drawn from the events of RBoE. Myself and others disagree with your opinion, therefore you really shouldn't be presenting it in the manner you have.

On the contrary, I make it very clear that I am expressing my opinion, that it is what "I think," what "I would argue," and that I am presenting a "reading" of the narrative with a supporting argument and examples. There is no need for any further caveats or disclaimers.

Regarding Sisko's behavior at the end of RBoE, it's meant to be the result of him having an epiphany; he doesn't turn back from the course he's set himself, but makes an effort to move forward along that course in a manner different to how he'd originally been planning/intended.

Fairly early on in the novel, DRG makes it clear that the manner in which Sisko initially chooses to 'walk his path alone' is to completely cut himself off - willingly - from anything related to his past, and without letting anyone get close enough to decipher his behavior or intrude on his solitude (hence telling Kira not to mention that she talked to him when she goes to see and offer comfort and emotional support to Kasidy, and his remaining cut off and aloof from his entire crew aboard the Robinson and rebuffing his XO's attempts to pull him out of his 'funk'). By the end of the novel, however, DRG demonstrates that Sisko has changed his mind on this front by having him officially file for divorce and send Kasidy a message explaining himself as best he can, and by having him reach out to his XO and offer to share a drink with him.

If you look at your own post above, you will see that there is nothing to explicitly indicate that you are expressing your opinion on a subject about which myself and others disagree. That's fine. It's obvious that it's your opinion anyway. However, to the extent that you prefer more ostentatious marks of subjectivity, the place to start would be your own posts

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Would you please show me where I've made 'blanket statements' in anything that I've posted thus far?

The reason I ask is that the only thing that you might possibly be referring to in the second half of your most recent response to me is the things that I said regarding DRG's intent as it concerns Sisko's actions at the end of RBoE, and said statements are in fact not opinion(s) but fact(s). Of the posts I've made in this thread thus far, only one of them has included a direct statement of opinion, and was appropriately prefaced and articulated as such. The other posts I have made have contained commentary on the discussion at hand.

 

[JonoKyle]

Since I first got into Star Trek with DS9 so I feel 'connected' with the DS9 characters more then the other Star Trek characters - IMO I don't see anything wrong with what David did with Sisko in the book, I see it more as a continuation of Sisko's story then it being 'out-of-character'.

I enjoyed the book and I hope David does a follow-up on Sisko at some time so we can see how the changes develop.

 

[j3067]

Has everyone forgotten the Prophets' warnings to Sisko?

"The Sisko is of Bajor, but he will find no rest there"

This was not actually a warning but a punitive action on the part of the Prophets/Wormhole Aliens (No promised Land for Moses). It was the cost of their intervention/intercession with the dominion fleet when they took an action that they did not originally plan to take. The fact that they don't live in linear time does not mean that they can't change their minds or take a different course of action than they initially intended. This is actually what keeps from from buying into the notion that they were just giving Sisko a friendly heads up about not marrying Kassidy. They aren't really shy about meddling in linear events actually, Sisko is living proof of this.

To me, getting snub by an orb or from general contact with the prophets does not seem like an all out effort to determine if the prophets had abandoned him. Why didn't he fly a ship into the wormhole for answers?

On the whole, I agree with Flem, DarKush, and Joe Zhang. I very strongly dislike the story and although DRG III made clear what he thought was sufficeint motive for Sisko's actions, I found it to be unconvincing.

This Rough Beast's hour has come at last, slouching toward the bottom of a box in my basement.

 

[maxleelv]

Kassidy's better off without Sisko. Let him go off and get drunk with his buddies. I just hope that she has the sense not to take him back, which I'm sure someone is planning on doing already. It's not just that he left but he wasn't man enough to say why. he even filed for divorce long distance. Ranks right up there with Rush Limbaugh (not Limborg) serving papers on his wife while she was in the hospital. lack of class and show's that he's got balls the size of raisins.

 

[David cgc]

Has everyone forgotten the Prophets' warnings to Sisko?

"The Sisko is of Bajor, but he will find no rest there"

This is actually what keeps from from buying into the notion that they were just giving Sisko a friendly heads up about not marrying Kassidy. They aren't really shy about meddling in linear events actually, Sisko is living proof of this.

In the original review thread, I mentioned that this was also my theory. It has the benefit that Sisko trying to undo the prophecy of suffering by divorcing Cass might actually work the way he wants it to, which his own explanation that it was simply a warning about his two possible futures lacks. Maybe Sisko just doesn't want to see the Prophets for the meddlesome dicks that they are. Let's remember, they did inspire religions on at least three planets that just happened to end up at war with each other.

 

[Reanok]

I really was unhappy with Sisko's story in this book. I think Ben Sisko's storyarc in this book went in the wrong direction sorry DRG.I really hope if Sisko is involved in another book that his character will straighten up and reunite with kassidy and rebecca and Jake.

 

[flemm]

This is actually what keeps from from buying into the notion that they were just giving Sisko a friendly heads up about not marrying Kassidy.

Right. To look at it another way, when the Prophets speak to Sisko just prior to his marriage to Kasidy, the implication is that the choice he is about to make is a momentous one.

The events of RBoE, while apparently intended to add weight to the Prophet's words, actually have the opposite impact. If Sisko can nullify his original choice through divorce, then that choice wasn't actually momentous at all: it could be undone at any time.

The Prophet did not say, "If you choose to spend your life with her, you will know nothing but sorrow. However, if you do marry Kasidy, and things start to go badly, just divorce her, and that will make it ok." There was no escape clause.

In that sense, I think the best/strongest interpretation of RBoE moving forward would be that Sisko is unwittingly fulfilling the Prophet's words by bringing the great sorrow upon himself. However, it's pretty clear from RBoE and from DRGIII's comments that this isn't what the author had in mind.

Kassidy's better off without Sisko. Let him go off and get drunk with his buddies. I just hope that she has the sense not to take him back, which I'm sure someone is planning on doing already. It's not just that he left but he wasn't man enough to say why. he even filed for divorce long distance. Ranks right up there with Rush Limbaugh (not Limborg) serving papers on his wife while she was in the hospital. lack of class and show's that he's got balls the size of raisins.

I laughed out loud when I read this, because it is so true.

 

[JonoKyle]

In regard to the Prophet's warnings to Sisko, I have often wondered if the warnings about the marriage & him finding no peace on Bajor was in relation to his return from the Celesital Temple more then anything else - simply because if it wasn't for Kasidy & the baby, would he actually have returned at all?

By the end of the series the Dominion War was over; Jake had grown-up (he was about 20 by then) and had become independent; Bajor had recovered from the Occupation, was safe from potential threats by both the Dominion & the Cardassians and was pretty much set for joining the Federation. He had already got to a point where he had accepted his role as the Emissary, and by this time his role as the Emissary seemed to influence his actions more then his Starfleet responsibility. So in a way except for Kasidy & the baby he really had no reason to return.

As the Prophets are non-linear, they knew what laid ahead - the Borg attack, his father's death, the kidnapping of Rebecca, his return to Starfleet and his seperation and everything else. If he never married Kasidy and she never became pregnant, he may have never made the promise to return, and due to his return he had to experience the sorrow caused by these events - so by him returning, he actually made their warnings come true.

Even the relaunched books before his return had supported this as the Prophet had already found others to act as their guides (e.g. Kira serving their 'Hand').

Maybe it was their intention for him not to return at all, instead to take up a role beside them as a Prophet, and to continue being 'of Bajor' as they were. In RBoE, he stated the Prophet's no longer 'talked' to him - maybe this was because he had completed his mission in linear time however he still chose to return.

Even wierder - since time with the Prophets is non-linear maybe he had set his entire existance up himself. His return and the sorrow felt is intentional - a way of getting his linear-self to let go of linear existance before he returns to the Celesital Temple permanently.

 

[Christopher]

I think what's getting forgotten is that Sisko's decision in RBoE wasn't only because of the Prophets' warning during the series. As I recall, it was because he himself directly experienced the future while he was in the Temple, and though he doesn't remember specifics, he recalls that he knew for a fact what the future would hold if he stayed with Kasidy vs. leaving her. So it's not just a Delphic warning from others guiding him, it's a memory of his own firsthand perception of the future.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Maybe Sisko just doesn't want to see the Prophets for the meddlesome dicks that they are. Let's remember, they did inspire religions on at least three planets that just happened to end up at war with each other.

Which three planets?

 

[David cgc]

Bajor, Cardassia, and the Ascendents. I realize I'm oversimplifying a bit.

 

[Thestral]

You forgot the Eav'oq. Are we clear that the Prophets inspired Cardassian religion?

 

[JoeZhang]

Kassidy's better off without Sisko. Let him go off and get drunk with his buddies. I just hope that she has the sense not to take him back, which I'm sure someone is planning on doing already. It's not just that he left but he wasn't man enough to say why. he even filed for divorce long distance. Ranks right up there with Rush Limbaugh (not Limborg) serving papers on his wife while she was in the hospital. lack of class and show's that he's got balls the size of raisins.

I laughed out loud when I read this, because it is so true.

Me too - he's got it spot-on - the novel Sisko is a bigger deadbeat than I thought.

 

[j3067]

Kassidy's better off without Sisko. Let him go off and get drunk with his buddies. I just hope that she has the sense not to take him back, which I'm sure someone is planning on doing already. It's not just that he left but he wasn't man enough to say why. he even filed for divorce long distance. Ranks right up there with Rush Limbaugh (not Limborg) serving papers on his wife while she was in the hospital. lack of class and show's that he's got balls the size of raisins.

I laughed out loud when I read this, because it is so true.

Me too - he's got it spot-on - the novel Sisko is a bigger deadbeat than I thought.

I agree with that character summary. I always thought this bit by Monty Python fit the heroic abandonment:

Brave Sir Robin ran away
Bravely, ran away...away...
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin

 

[David cgc]

You forgot the Eav'oq. Are we clear that the Prophets inspired Cardassian religion?

The half-Bajoran, half-Cardassian hebitian figurine seems to be a giveaway, and the Vinculum is a dead ringer for an Orb experience.

 

[Thestral]

The Vinculum? Isn't that a piece of Borg tech that binds the drones of each ship together?

Anyway, I know that the hybrid Hebitian figure is a big piece of evidence pointing towards the Prophets influencing Cardassia, but I thought I'd read speculation that this was more a matter of the cultures interacting and that their respective deities weren't actually the same.

Either way, that would be four civilizations inspired by the Prophets if the Oralian Way is another branch of Prophet-worship.

 

[Christopher]

The Vinculum? Isn't that a piece of Borg tech that binds the drones of each ship together?

"Vinculum" is just a fancy word for a link or connection, from the Latin for "bind." VGR used it for a Borg interlink component, and Andrew J. Robinson used it in his Garak story "The Calling" (and the 2-man play it's derived from) to refer to a more spiritual type of connection involved with Cardassian mysticism, something which was presented as being extremely like the conditions within the Bajoran Wormhole/Celestial Temple and was implicitly the same thing.

 

[David cgc]

Either way, that would be four civilizations inspired by the Prophets if the Oralian Way is another branch of Prophet-worship.

True enough. The Eav'oq slipped my mind. My point, though, was that the Prophets got around, but their various children didn't exactly embrace each other in brotherhood upon discovering each other, and the Prophets probably have some of the blame for that.