Besides, it was already said they ran the tests several times and it was pretty much confirmed, even by Wilson, it was cancer and it had to be taken care of.
House: 7x19 "Last Temptation" - Discussion and Spoilers
- Thread starter Trekker4747
- Start date
You mean that's not next week's episode?I'm sad we'll never likely see the battle they'll have with the ferrets.
Yeah. I was just thrown off a bit because I didn't see House outside after the dog ran out with the chicken.Remember, House was training the dog to fetch a feather.
I can see that affecting her medical career, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the team. House wasn't involved and the others only found out what was going on after the girl went critical.
Sailing requires a lot of arm strength and dexterity. I think you are underestimating the challenge that ever sailing again would present for her, especially with such a high amputation.
It was a great episode all around, though I wish Masters wasn't leaving. For a minute I thought they were going to pull a surprise 180 and keep her on the show either as an intern with House or with the surgery team where she could be Chase ala season 4 and 5.
Honestly I've grown tired of the Foreman character, as have the writers it seems, and I would be much happier to see him leave than Masters at this point.
Yeah, Chase still has some "use" in him but I'm bored with Forman though his relationship/friendship with Taub has been sort-of fun to watch. I hadn't heard on whether or not 3M was leaving or whatever so I partly expected her to stay in some capacity either doing her internship in diagnostics or in the surgical team.
In a way this episode had elements in it that reminded me of the TNG episode "Lower Decks" where much of the focus is spent on a handful of low-ranked shipmates outside looking in, a bit, to the senior staff and even pondering their own career advancements. Sort of fun to see it this way and to see House and Wilson's antics from an "outside view." Heh.
Loved it when the surgeon was looking at the board as Masters wondered why House's patient was still around, surgeon: "That's House's case. I never know what the guy is up to."
This episode was a bit fun in those regards and, to me, its episodes like this that show the show still has a pulse in it and hasn't quite jumped the shark yet and I would argue this episode Fonzie to retreat a bit from the ramp.
And, again, I loved the call back to "You can't always get what you want," and discussion of what Stacy did to House. Still think Masters made the right choice as she did it to best "help" the patient live.
When she's adapted to a prosthetic (and there's lots of very advanced prosthetic arms out there beyond the old hook) she could certainly be a capable sailor.
In a way this episode had elements in it that reminded me of the TNG episode "Lower Decks" where much of the focus is spent on a handful of low-ranked shipmates outside looking in, a bit, to the senior staff and even pondering their own career advancements. Sort of fun to see it this way and to see House and Wilson's antics from an "outside view." Heh.
Loved it when the surgeon was looking at the board as Masters wondered why House's patient was still around, surgeon: "That's House's case. I never know what the guy is up to."
This episode was a bit fun in those regards and, to me, its episodes like this that show the show still has a pulse in it and hasn't quite jumped the shark yet and I would argue this episode Fonzie to retreat a bit from the ramp.
And, again, I loved the call back to "You can't always get what you want," and discussion of what Stacy did to House. Still think Masters made the right choice as she did it to best "help" the patient live.
When she's adapted to a prosthetic (and there's lots of very advanced prosthetic arms out there beyond the old hook) she could certainly be a capable sailor.
How so? I find him the most superfluous character at this point. Apparently they only keep him around to interest female viewers, or so I've been told.
Am I the only one who thinks that the patient, or in this case her family since she's a minor, should be making the decision about her life, not a doctor? I feel that Masters was out of line forcing the issue through deception. Doctors work for us--and our lives and our decisions about our lives are our own.
Masters should tell the family the diagnosis and offer alternative solutions, but the decision to act or not belongs to the patient's parents. Suppose they wanted a second opinion? She took that away from them. I know it's just a show, but I don't think Masters was a hero. She was a person who always thought she was smarter than most of those around her and she wanted her way more than anything else. At first she thought they should listen to her and do what she suggested and she orchestrated the surgery, but then she started to have her doubts. I think the other students and her roommate suddenly made her see that she might not be so much smarter than others as she thought. They finally made her really see them and hear them. She got an insight to how others saw her, which she probably never considered before. I thought this was a very good episode. I'll miss Masters.
Masters should tell the family the diagnosis and offer alternative solutions, but the decision to act or not belongs to the patient's parents. Suppose they wanted a second opinion? She took that away from them. I know it's just a show, but I don't think Masters was a hero. She was a person who always thought she was smarter than most of those around her and she wanted her way more than anything else. At first she thought they should listen to her and do what she suggested and she orchestrated the surgery, but then she started to have her doubts. I think the other students and her roommate suddenly made her see that she might not be so much smarter than others as she thought. They finally made her really see them and hear them. She got an insight to how others saw her, which she probably never considered before. I thought this was a very good episode. I'll miss Masters.
Yes, that's the point Velocity. Masters clearly violated patient rights and that's why it's by no means cut and dry (if anything, she's 100% wrong) and also why she was so upset that she left the hospital. The point is House breaks the law all the time to do what's he sees as right for the patient (though only to solve the case, once it's solved he doesnt care like in this case). He was successfully moulding Masters into a new apprentice and she did the wrong thing, and decided she did not want to go down that path.
This show has dealt with medical ethic dilemmas multiple times over its runs including patient consent to medical treatments.
The parents weren't denying the treatment because they wanted a second opinion but because their daughter wanted to achieve her dream, a dream at the cost of her life.
This diagnosis came from a world-renowned diagnostician and one can only assume a well respected oncologist (House would've only gotten the cancer confirmation from Wilson, and House would only trust Wilson's diagnosis/medical advice if Wilson was an exceptional oncologist), the cancer diagnosis came from multiple tests and they even seemed to accept that as the truth.
The diagnosis wasn't in question.
Now, what Masters did to force the treatment on the patient and the parents is certainly out of line but, again, not outside of what House does on a fairly regular basis, and depending on what Masters did to force the heart problem would by itself be illegal. But, in the end, the patient is going to live, something that was much less likely had she not gone though with the treatment.
Patients have the "right" to refuse treatment but this girl was a minor and, thus, did not have that right. Her parents did. And her parents valued their daughter's "dream" over her life. The father valued the integrity and unity of his family over his daughter's life! No one made a good decision here. The parents, the POTW and even Masters as in all "reality" she should have let the patient die from her own damn ego. But, in the end, the patient will live and survive. She'll have plenty of struggles, sure, but she's alive. Boo-hoo she doesn't get to accomplish her dream of being the youngest girl to sail around the world. So what. Dreams are crushed everyday.
Things weren't being stalled for a second opinion but because of some precocious little brat wanted to be a blurb in some records book only read by bored 8th graders in the school library.
Masters made both the right and the wrong decision in this case and, as I said above, she'd had less emotional issues over it had she been a bit more like House and remained detached from the patient. House created a job just for her and as her fellow intern said people would kill to get to work for House, again a world-renowned doctor, and that he wanted her to work for him speaks volumes. House pretty much never wants people to work for him. Cuddy has to force House into hiring his current crop of fellows.
I know working for House seems to 'break" people but I'd argue it only broke the current cast. Cameron walked away seemingly "fine" if not a bit harder and one could argue House had other fellows who worked for him before the series began who've gone on to good careers so House "ruining" doctors is probably an exaggeration. He makes good doctors, ones willing to take risks to save lives.
Again, the consent thing shouldn't be easily shrugged off and certainly Masters could have found a less illegal way to get the results but, still, the patient is alive and will live.
The parents weren't denying the treatment because they wanted a second opinion but because their daughter wanted to achieve her dream, a dream at the cost of her life.
This diagnosis came from a world-renowned diagnostician and one can only assume a well respected oncologist (House would've only gotten the cancer confirmation from Wilson, and House would only trust Wilson's diagnosis/medical advice if Wilson was an exceptional oncologist), the cancer diagnosis came from multiple tests and they even seemed to accept that as the truth.
The diagnosis wasn't in question.
Now, what Masters did to force the treatment on the patient and the parents is certainly out of line but, again, not outside of what House does on a fairly regular basis, and depending on what Masters did to force the heart problem would by itself be illegal. But, in the end, the patient is going to live, something that was much less likely had she not gone though with the treatment.
Patients have the "right" to refuse treatment but this girl was a minor and, thus, did not have that right. Her parents did. And her parents valued their daughter's "dream" over her life. The father valued the integrity and unity of his family over his daughter's life! No one made a good decision here. The parents, the POTW and even Masters as in all "reality" she should have let the patient die from her own damn ego. But, in the end, the patient will live and survive. She'll have plenty of struggles, sure, but she's alive. Boo-hoo she doesn't get to accomplish her dream of being the youngest girl to sail around the world. So what. Dreams are crushed everyday.
Things weren't being stalled for a second opinion but because of some precocious little brat wanted to be a blurb in some records book only read by bored 8th graders in the school library.
Masters made both the right and the wrong decision in this case and, as I said above, she'd had less emotional issues over it had she been a bit more like House and remained detached from the patient. House created a job just for her and as her fellow intern said people would kill to get to work for House, again a world-renowned doctor, and that he wanted her to work for him speaks volumes. House pretty much never wants people to work for him. Cuddy has to force House into hiring his current crop of fellows.
I know working for House seems to 'break" people but I'd argue it only broke the current cast. Cameron walked away seemingly "fine" if not a bit harder and one could argue House had other fellows who worked for him before the series began who've gone on to good careers so House "ruining" doctors is probably an exaggeration. He makes good doctors, ones willing to take risks to save lives.
Again, the consent thing shouldn't be easily shrugged off and certainly Masters could have found a less illegal way to get the results but, still, the patient is alive and will live.
Last edited:
I agree with Trekker. It was the parents' place to give consent, and Masters didn't perform the procedure until she got their consent. Sure, she tricked them into giving it, but one could argue that she was simply forcing them to recognize the real danger they were letting themselves overlook -- or hastening a decision they would've had to make soon enough anyway.
I wasn't arguing for her decision, I was just saying I understand how she felt.
How old was she? And I wouldn't mind reading more on this short of thing. It seems a bit much to suggest that a teenage girl has "no rights" when it comes to making decisions like this.
I think she was eleven or twelve. The father mentioned that there'd been another situation similar to this where the parents tried to get her to do something in her own best interest at the expense of a sailing expedition, and she threatened to emancipate herself. He was certain that she'd go through with it if they tried to force her to have the surgery before she left.
She's sixteen. Said so in the dialogue.
Does that mean Tamblyn's gone?
If so, the episode deserves a "terrible", I far, far far prefer her over 13. It was nice to have at least one episode centered on her though.
If so, the episode deserves a "terrible", I far, far far prefer her over 13. It was nice to have at least one episode centered on her though.
"Good" for giving Tamblyn a chance to stretch her acting chops and for the House / Wilson antics. I feel like they just did this same story with Chase recently, though.
And it's unlikely her second attempt to emancipate herself would have worked, how would that conversation had gone.
Judge: So you want to be emancipated?
POTW: Yes.
Judge: Because your parents want you to have life-saving surgery.
POTW: Yes, I want to sail around the world by myself.
Judge: But you need this surgery to live correct?
POTW: It's just cancer, I can get it taken care of in a few months to a year in some third-world hospital instead of at an American hospital under the care of a world-class diagnostician and oncologist.
Judge: Yeah.... Emancipation not happening here, kid. Have the damn surgery.
But it seemed the dad doubted the emancipation would work but that the process would just rip the family apart more which still makes him selfish, it may rip his family apart but at least his damn daughter would live.
In America persons younger than 18 have no "rights" as far as making decisions like this for themselves. It's often suggested that the family work together but, yeah, basically a parent can "force" whatever procedure or treatment they want on their kid, as said above the kid could get themselves emancipated if they can get a court to agree the parent is acting outside of the child's best interests. A parent putting their kid through even horrific surgery rather than achieving a dream I would argue IS acting in the child's best interest.
On the level of "First, do no harm." I would argue that House and 3M didn't do any "harm." Harm isn't defined as causing your patient either pain or making them go through a procedure they need in order to live. Yes, the POTW left the hospital one limb less than she entered with but she was not "harmed" since the cancerous arm was needing removed anyway. She got the surgery she needed to save her life. It's terrible and tragic, yes, but she was not "harmed" as the cancer was removed.
Then you should get the fuck over it then. Being a type one insulin dependent Diabetic (which I might add is several hundred degrees less worse than an amputation and a billion degrees worse than some simple eye drops once a day.) who has to inject multiple times a day, I personally feel you are a moron for even considering complaining about that, let alone complaining outright.
Oh, just watched the episode and rather liked it. Not as good as some, but some very nice nod-backs to previous events which is always nice.
Good fucking Christ, does everybody overreact much?!
I was relating my little bitty annoyance at the sudden advance of my minor "handicap" to how this girl must feel about suddenly having to change her whole life to a truly major life-changing crisis, and suddenly self-righteous twats are all over my ass! Get over yourselves and take my comment for what it was - just a comparative comment.
Get over myself? really? Did you read past what I said about it being whole different degrees?
The way you wrote about your handicap - which may I add, it really is not is in no way comparable to having an arm lopped off because of Cancer - was that it has such an impact on your life, you feel subhuman in some way. Having to monitor my Diabetes is far from like that either, so. you. know. what. you. get. the. fuck. over. yourself.
I think he was just making a comparative statement. Saying that the simple inconvenience of eye drops for glaucoma was enough of a hardship for him that he partly resented the doctor and that he couldn't imagine what the horrors of losing a limb would feel like.
I had a brain biopsy done a year ago and the over-night stay in the ICU was the most miserable experience I've ever had in my life compounded with the problems that led up to the biopsy (which turned out fine.) But I don't mean it was the absolute worse possible situation someone could have in the hospital and I couldn't imagine how much worse the experience would've been if I had real surgery.
Don't mean to compare the situations just saying it was hard for me and can't see how people manage to get through worse. I think that is all he was saying.
I had a brain biopsy done a year ago and the over-night stay in the ICU was the most miserable experience I've ever had in my life compounded with the problems that led up to the biopsy (which turned out fine.) But I don't mean it was the absolute worse possible situation someone could have in the hospital and I couldn't imagine how much worse the experience would've been if I had real surgery.
Don't mean to compare the situations just saying it was hard for me and can't see how people manage to get through worse. I think that is all he was saying.
