A
Amaris
Guest
"You'll never believe it, Mom! I found out that, logically speaking, God doesn't exist!"
<gasp, faint>
"Mom?"
Your religious beliefs
- Thread starter Rom's Sehlat
- Start date
"You'll never believe it, Mom! I found out that, logically speaking, God doesn't exist!"
<gasp, faint>
"Mom?"
Same here. I have had some fundamentalists tell me I am not a Christian and that I am a heretic.
"You'll never believe it, Mom! I found out that, logically speaking, God doesn't exist!"
<gasp, faint>
"Mom?"
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP4NxwOeeAU[/yt]
Seconded.
Wrong.
Seconded.
And let me be clear: I am not a fundamentalist. I don't think that all those who don't subscribe to my religion are going to hell. As Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." So that's the key. It's not necessary to identify with any one particular religion or denomination of same. Just to realize that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is what's saved us all.
Wrong."Word."
Seconded.
Seconded.
Exactly, Christ is the key.
A
Amaris
Guest
Um, to be fair, that's like saying that it doesn't matter what your favorite color is, as long as you realize that your favorite color is yellow. Believe me, it doesn't matter what you believe, just realize that your conclusions aren't going to be everyone's conclusions.
As I have said in the past, I consider Jesus to be a great teacher, and a wise man, so it's not like I have anything against him.
Second. Or is it third?
There's only three options with Jesus:
1. He was the messiah.
2. He was a liar.
3. He was nuts.
Technically you could believe 2 or 3 and still follow some of his teachings, but the question would be why.
A
Amaris
Guest
There are more than three options, Josh McDowell's limitations notwithstanding.
4. Jesus honestly believed that God spoke through him and was sincere in his belief that he had something important to say.
5. Jesus was a normal wise man, whose abilities were conflated over the decades before the oral stories were put into writing.
6. Jesus never existed and was simply a fabrication made from various old mythologies.
The problem is that you guys are making an interpretation. "No one comes to the Father except through me," means what, exactly?
Does it mean believing Jesus was the Son of God?
Does it mean believing Jesus was the Messiah?
Does it mean believing Jesus' Cross and Resurrection saved us all?
Does it mean following Jesus' teachings?
Does it mean calling him up and saying, "Can I go to heaven?"
Does it mean being a Catholic?
Does it mean being Orthodox?
Does it mean following the laws of Deuteronomy?
Does it mean ignoring the laws of Deuteronomy?
Does it mean persecuting someone who fails to follow the laws of Deuteronomy?
Does it mean following the instructions of St. Paul?
Does it mean persecuting someone who follows the instructions of St. Paul?
Does it mean persecuting someone who fails to follow the instructions of St. Paul?
Does it mean going into the desert and fasting for 40 days and 40 nights?
Does it mean telling Satan to fuck off while on your desert fast?
Does it mean dying on the cross as well?
Does it mean not living a good, normal, healthy life on Earth while hoping Jesus will whisk you away during some apocalypse?
Jesus also said, "In my Father's house, there are many mansions." Que? Or "In my Fathers mansion there are many rooms?"
Jesus also talked about fulfilling the law, which some Christians take to mean that they can eat shellfish, but they still must make gays as miserable as possible.
While Jesus may have said that no one comes to the Father except through him, most Christians are more adept at quoting the Pauline Epistles than Jesus himself.
See, there's so much latitude here.
We are saved through faith alone, and as result of that salvation, we do good things and live according to the Commandments -- a summation of Luther's Doctrine of Faith and teachings on the subject.
Oh, and "Judge not, lest ye be judged as well."
Remember, God the Father is the ultimate power and decider. Careful that you don't judge, nor that you take his power away, for he may surprise you on your last day.
Does it mean believing Jesus was the Son of God?
Does it mean believing Jesus was the Messiah?
Does it mean believing Jesus' Cross and Resurrection saved us all?
Does it mean following Jesus' teachings?
Does it mean calling him up and saying, "Can I go to heaven?"
Does it mean being a Catholic?
Does it mean being Orthodox?
Does it mean following the laws of Deuteronomy?
Does it mean ignoring the laws of Deuteronomy?
Does it mean persecuting someone who fails to follow the laws of Deuteronomy?
Does it mean following the instructions of St. Paul?
Does it mean persecuting someone who follows the instructions of St. Paul?
Does it mean persecuting someone who fails to follow the instructions of St. Paul?
Does it mean going into the desert and fasting for 40 days and 40 nights?
Does it mean telling Satan to fuck off while on your desert fast?
Does it mean dying on the cross as well?
Does it mean not living a good, normal, healthy life on Earth while hoping Jesus will whisk you away during some apocalypse?
Jesus also said, "In my Father's house, there are many mansions." Que? Or "In my Fathers mansion there are many rooms?"
Jesus also talked about fulfilling the law, which some Christians take to mean that they can eat shellfish, but they still must make gays as miserable as possible.
While Jesus may have said that no one comes to the Father except through him, most Christians are more adept at quoting the Pauline Epistles than Jesus himself.
See, there's so much latitude here.
We are saved through faith alone, and as result of that salvation, we do good things and live according to the Commandments -- a summation of Luther's Doctrine of Faith and teachings on the subject.
Oh, and "Judge not, lest ye be judged as well."
Remember, God the Father is the ultimate power and decider. Careful that you don't judge, nor that you take his power away, for he may surprise you on your last day.
Same, there will be people in heaven who have never gone to church, it isn't about going to a place, or being part of a certain denomination. Although, once you know Christ, you will want to fellowship with others.
Admittedly, I don't know much about Hinduism, the result of an educational system that was 99% Catholic, 1% everything else. But when I talk about religious types that insist that their religion is the only true one, I'm referring to quotes like this:
See, followers of Mohammed think differently. Jews too. And Hindus. In fact, pretty much all the non-Christian religious groups disagree that Jesus is the only way to salvation. In fact, different Christian groups can't agree on the way to salvation, with some believing that having Jesus as your saviour is enough, other believing that good deeds are required, and some thinking that undergoing certain sacraments is essential to reaching the afterlife... They can't all be right.
I don't believe that one political or social or cultural lifestyle can work for all people either. But religion isn't just some cultural thing, it is an attempt to explain the great mysteries of existence, to provide answers to the reason behind life and the very universe itself. To those questions, there can be only one truth. Humans could have evolved unaided, or their could have been a god that aided the course of our evolution, or there could be a god that just designed humans directly and made it look like we evolved. I can accept that there are multiple viewpoints on what really happened, but in the end only one of those viewpoints can be the correct one.
Jesus could be the one true saviour, but why do his followers disagree on so much of his message? Was he not clear in his words? If he was clear, why the sectionalisation? If he wasn't clear, how can you be sure that Catholicism is the closest interpretation of his message? How can you be sure of his message at all?
(Sorry if I appear preachy, I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I'm just trying to explain my thought process.
)4. He was a nice guy whose message was dressed up by those that came after him, including the addition of stories and concepts from other religions, in order to reach a wider audience. Would you be more likely to listen to a message from some hippy or from the son of God? (I wouldn't listen to either, but I'd go out of my way to ignore the hippie.
)
Admittedly, I don't know much about Hinduism, the result of an educational system that was 99% Catholic, 1% everything else. But when I talk about religious types that insist that their religion is the only true one, I'm referring to quotes like this:
See, followers of Mohammed think differently. Jews too. And Hindus. In fact, pretty much all the non-Christian religious groups disagree that Jesus is the only way to salvation. In fact, different Christian groups can't agree on the way to salvation, with some believing that having Jesus as your saviour is enough, other believing that good deeds are required, and some thinking that undergoing certain sacraments is essential to reaching the afterlife... They can't all be right.
I don't believe that one political or social or cultural lifestyle can work for all people either. But religion isn't just some cultural thing, it is an attempt to explain the great mysteries of existence, to provide answers to the reason behind life and the very universe itself. To those questions, there can be only one truth. Humans could have evolved unaided, or their could have been a god that aided the course of our evolution, or there could be a god that just designed humans directly and made it look like we evolved. I can accept that there are multiple viewpoints on what really happened, but in the end only one of those viewpoints can be the correct one.
Jesus could be the one true saviour, but why do his followers disagree on so much of his message? Was he not clear in his words? If he was clear, why the sectionalisation? If he wasn't clear, how can you be sure that Catholicism is the closest interpretation of his message? How can you be sure of his message at all?
(Sorry if I appear preachy, I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I'm just trying to explain my thought process.
4. He was a nice guy whose message was dressed up by those that came after him, including the addition of stories and concepts from other religions, in order to reach a wider audience. Would you be more likely to listen to a message from some hippy or from the son of God? (I wouldn't listen to either, but I'd go out of my way to ignore the hippie.
The problem with that us that you can't pick and choose. Either his teachings and deeds are recorded correctly or its fake. There's great credibility or no credibility.
Your 4 would mean my 3. Your 5 doesn't mesh with the actual timeline of the early church and the gospels. Trust me, my aunt is a minister who went to Harvard Divinity. She knows her stuff.
6 is wrong. Ask any archaeologist.
You got one thing right, there is only one truth.
I'm not here to debate my beliefs, I was just answering the question of the thread topic. I stated what I believe in, where I get my truth, where I put my trust, and what I believe the way to salvation is as its stated in the Bible.
Been there...that's happened to me too.
Given the behaviors some supposedly-devout Christians exhibit, in some cases I'd think being a heretic would be preferable.
I'm probably about to step in it, but I'd really like it if people could keep the "x is the only way to salvation" sentiments out of it. I mean really, right or wrong, do I even have to say how that comes across? Well, I'll say it comes across as about one step better than telling me I'm going to Hell just because I'm gay. Or agnostic, if you prefer.
I'm probably about to step in it, but I'd really like it if people could keep the "x is the only way to salvation" sentiments out of it. I mean really, right or wrong, do I even have to say how that comes across? Well, I'll say it comes across as about one step better than telling me I'm going to Hell just because I'm gay. Or agnostic, if you prefer.
