Inter Arma - What were Ross and Sloan really up to?

[Jefferies]

In the 7th season episode Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, what was Sloan's and Ross' agenda exactly? The way it presents itsself to me at the moment is that the installation of Koval as the Praetor's debuty over Cretak was the purpose of their plot.

If that was truely the case, then their attitude towards Cretak was one of extreme paranoia, especially in the case of Ross. He knew Cretak personnally. He had worked with her for months, probably seeing her several times a week, coordinating joint fleet operations.

His entire argument was that she could not be trusted because she was a patriot. This I find utterly short sighted. She struck me as someone with integrity and someone who had a genuine respect for the Federation. I also had the impression that she valued the alliance beyond its utilitarian benefit. Koval on the other hand was a truely shady character. How could they be so sure he would always be loyal to the Federation?

What all this shows us is that rather then giving us insight into why Cretak should be distrusted, Ross' line of reasoning gives us a disturbing insight into his own shady patriotism. He would brake his word and go against every of his principles if he believed it served the Federation. In fact he is so convinced this is the only way to show loyalty to the state that he is incapable of considering that Cretak might behave differently.

Now thats what I call dangerous and it puts him in the exact same league as Sloan. They are paranoid vigilantes bereft of a sense of right and wrong.

 

[Timo]

Might be that Ross based his estimate on the very fact that he did know Cretak well - much better than the audience did.

As for "sense of right and wrong", that's a highly personal, fundamentally subjective thing. Indeed, if not for the subjective viewpoint, right and wrong wouldn't even exist, as they are a collective effort to wrangle some sort of a mutual understanding out of subjective viewpoints. More often than not, that effort leads into some sort of a watered-down, lukewarm sorta-right, slightly-naughty compromise against which the subjective rights and wrongs become all the more accentuated. Ross could well be a person who has seen so much evil that he has rightly (*) decided that his right and wrong are the right (*) ones to go by.

Timo Saloniemi

(*)"Rightly" always being iteratively defined by Ross' own standards, of course.

 

[RyuRoots]

The opening post here reeks of the preachy black and white morality that I'm glad the ep itself didn't shove down our throats.

It's also a bit skewed. Ross himself indicates that it wasn't as if he didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, but he wanted to secure what he perceived to be a stronger foothold for the Federation.

Timo is also right in that Ross knew Cretak better than the audience did. He and Sloan might've been right about her, they might've been wrong. There's no way to no for sure, and her answers ARE non-committal.

It's not as simple as "Ross and Sloan were evil, Cretak was good" even if you disagree with Ross' and Sloan's actions.

 

[Timo]

...The most ambiguous thing about the Sloan/Ross pact here is the extent of the organization behind it. Basically, we just learn that Sloan told Ross that Section 31 wants this or that for the greater good of the UFP. Was that true in any sense of the word?

Or was Sloan just a lone wolf with serious delusions, perhaps an ex-SFI agent who wanted to participate in one more operation? There's no real sense of an organization on the background there, no backup beyond what a single shuttlecraft with a transporter could provide.

Or did Sloan work for the Romulans, knowingly or unknowingly? He did rid the UFP of a seemingly trustworthy ally in playing against Cretak.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[intrinsical]

There is no doubt in my mind that Sloan works for a group with far more resources than almost any other Starfleet group has. How else is he able to get authorization to interrogate the entire command staff of DS9 and freely transport on and off one of the most heavily defended front line bases without triggering a single alarm?

 

[od0_ital]

.. How else is he able to get authorization to interrogate the entire command staff of DS9 and freely transport on and off one of the most heavily defended front line bases without triggering a single alarm?

uhm...Sloan's interrogation of the DS9 command staff was part of the holographic test he gave Bashir to determine if he could work for Section 31.

And if Section 31 is a wicked awesome superevil organization, they would be able to provide the codes for the station that would get Sloan in & out, since they're all playin' on the same side, more or less.

 

[Jefferies]

The opening post here reeks of the preachy black and white morality that I'm glad the ep itself didn't shove down our throats.

It's also a bit skewed. Ross himself indicates that it wasn't as if he didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, but he wanted to secure what he perceived to be a stronger foothold for the Federation.

Timo is also right in that Ross knew Cretak better than the audience did. He and Sloan might've been right about her, they might've been wrong. There's no way to no for sure, and her answers ARE non-committal.

It's not as simple as "Ross and Sloan were evil, Cretak was good" even if you disagree with Ross' and Sloan's actions.

It doesn't change the fact that they went to extremes to prevent Cretak and install Koval. How could they be so sure Koval was entirely trustworthy? Was it really worth destroying Cretak over that? And we do have some evidence of her decency. She trusted Julian when she had no grounds to do so and then acted to try and prevent the death of a politcal enemy.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I'm pretty amused at the mindset that Cretak could be trusted as a legitimate ally.

Wasn't she basically a VILLAINESS in the opening arc of Season 7? She was putting Romulan weapons in the Bajoran system--which had the natural effect of threatening Bajoran relations with Romulas--and the Federation.

It was up to Ross to tell Cretak to back off.

That is NOT someone who "values the alliance". That is someone who's trying to use the alliance to increase Romulan influence and power.

I could possibly excuse Bashir's mindset--while Kira and Ross were dealing with Cretak, Julian was off with Worf securing a place for Jadzia in Sto-Vo-Kor. He didn't see what happened.

But...we're the audience. We SAW what happened in the beginning of the season. What on Earth would give us the mindset that Cretak was innocent?

 

[RyuRoots]

It doesn't change the fact that they went to extremes to prevent Cretak and install Koval. How could they be so sure Koval was entirely trustworthy? Was it really worth destroying Cretak over that? And we do have some evidence of her decency. She trusted Julian when she had no grounds to do so and then acted to try and prevent the death of a politcal enemy.

The fact that Koval had been providing them valuable information for well over year apparently without fail seems like a pretty good indication of where his loyalties lie.

And as Rush Limborg points out, she was also an opportunist in regards to the war itself. What you cited may be evidence of "decency", but it says absolutely nothing about her value or danger as a continuing presence in the Romulan government for the Federation.

 

[Jefferies]

It doesn't change the fact that they went to extremes to prevent Cretak and install Koval. How could they be so sure Koval was entirely trustworthy? Was it really worth destroying Cretak over that? And we do have some evidence of her decency. She trusted Julian when she had no grounds to do so and then acted to try and prevent the death of a politcal enemy.

The fact that Koval had been providing them valuable information for well over year apparently without fail seems like a pretty good indication of where his loyalties lie.

And as Rush Limborg points out, she was also an opportunist in regards to the war itself. What you cited may be evidence of "decency", but it says absolutely nothing about her value or danger as a continuing presence in the Romulan government for the Federation.

You make some interesting points. On a speculative note, what do you think could Koval's possible motivation be? I mean he is not just supporting the alliance from a political standpoint. He is basically a Federation operative. What is his loyalty to the Federation based on? Seems like he would have quite an interesting backstory. Also, I'm still not convinced he would be free of duplicity just because he played along for a year or so. Yet, Ross seems to have absolute faith in him.

 

[Rush Limborg]

It could be that Koval and Sloan have an understanding of one another, respecting one another's abilities, etc.

There seems to be a kind of chess game going on between Koval and 31, if you read the novels. In Rogue, Koval's Tal Shiar basically wins a round against them.... (Indeed, my arch-nemesis in the TrekLit forum insists on using that book as an "example" of how stupid 31 is. *sigh* Again, I prefer to think of it as a "game" between the two groups.)

It might be a sort of balance of power between the Shiar and 31. One could speculate that Koval and Sloan made a deal, or something. He gets the seat he wants--and in return, he gives more resources to assist in the war.

 

[Sci]

For the record, those seeking to analyze the attitudes and goals of Sloan and Ross in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" should probably bear in mind that the episode looks like it might have been inspired by the novel The Spy Who Came in From the Cold by John le Carré.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Might have been, perhaps. Of course, it doesn't necessaily follow that it was.

 

[Timo]

How else is he able to get authorization to interrogate the entire command staff of DS9 and freely transport on and off one of the most heavily defended front line bases without triggering a single alarm?

The Jack Pack could get "authorization" through sheer cheek. And said base has leaked like a sieve before, letting in all sorts of rogue elements even when those haven't possessed Changeling abilities. It wouldn't be too difficult for Sloan to operate solo, as long as he had a vessel with a holodeck, a transporter (with those "cheap tricks" the con artists from "Devil's Due" used), and a few codes he had picked up from his previous heists.

The same would apply if Sloan were a Romulan operative, of course.

It is a bit curious that we never ever see another S31 agent anywhere (outside holosimulations) in the TNG/DS9/VOY timeframe, merely in ENT. Perhaps Sloan or the forces behind him revigorated that ENT era organization in name only, for their own sinister purposes? Say, perhaps Sloan never had anything to do with the genocidal bioattack that was intended to save the Federation, but merely gained information on it during his lone or Romulan-backed operations that all aimed at undermining the Federation instead?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rom's Sehlat]

It seems to me that Sloan was hyper-nationalistic. Unfortunately, he forgot what the Federation was about: cooperation and trust. Somebody had to start trusting the Romulans, and that should have been the Federation. Sloan just wouldn't see it and tried to keep the UFP for the UFP and Romulans as far away as possible.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^And yet he formed an alliance with Koval.

 

[Sci]

^Might have been, perhaps. Of course, it doesn't necessaily follow that it was.

Maybe not intentionally. But the similarities in plot are so striking that I'd find it hard to think that it wasn't, at the very least, a subconscious influence.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I dunno. Some things are just wierd coincidence.

Here's an example: Sorrows Of Empire, with Mirror Spock's coldly logical plan to bring about the destruction of the Terran Empire...in order to bring it back all the better. He looks like a crazy destroyer...but in fact he is the greatest of liberators.

When I first heard of this, one thought entered my mind.

"Who is John Galt?"

David Mack swears he did not base his book on that book in any way. I believe him.

Coincidences happen.

Still--he did say he once tried to read Rand. So you may have a...minor point with "subconcious influence"....

 

[intrinsical]

How else is he able to get authorization to interrogate the entire command staff of DS9 and freely transport on and off one of the most heavily defended front line bases without triggering a single alarm?

The Jack Pack could get "authorization" through sheer cheek. And said base has leaked like a sieve before, letting in all sorts of rogue elements even when those haven't possessed Changeling abilities. It wouldn't be too difficult for Sloan to operate solo, as long as he had a vessel with a holodeck, a transporter (with those "cheap tricks" the con artists from "Devil's Due" used), and a few codes he had picked up from his previous heists.

Wow, by this line of reasoning anyone and anything can penetrate DS9's defenses. Even harmless tribbles, you win

 

[Timo]

It's more or less natural that the station's defenses would be a joke. It's no longer a Cardassian station, so those originally heavy protective measures are no longer active. It's not really a Federation starbase, either, so it lacks those measures.

Really, the station's vulnerability to all sorts of attack was originally an important plot point, and the middle seasons only did away with the most explicit military vulnerability by adding to the weaponry. Infintrators from left and right kept on penetrating Odo's security arrangements till the bitter end, ranging from dangerous enemies of the Federation to petty criminals patronized by Quark.

That Sloan would have trouble waltzing in would be a major inconsistency in the portrayal of the station...

Timo Saloniemi