Didn't I start out by saying my memories of the 1989 film were that it was the best of the Burton/90s films? Yes it IS the best of those movies, even with their superior FX, but that doesn't mean its a good film. Not by a long shot.
RAMA
In retrospect, Batman(1989) is really baadd
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Didn't I start out by saying my memories of the 1989 film were that it was the best of the Burton/90s films? Yes it IS the best of those movies, even with their superior FX, but that doesn't mean its a good film. Not by a long shot.
RAMA
And then those people don't even realize that the Nolan movies are at least as goofy. Microwave guns on trains that activate fear gas? Evil nurses in clown makeup who have the time and wherewithal to set up demolitions in a 100,000 square foot hospital unnoticed?
Absolutely realistic!
I think we can all agree that Batman & Robin is unwatchable.
I'd rather watch Steel or Superman IV instead . . . .
Absolutely agree. Batman '89 had what every super hero movie needs, a great charismatic villain and and a charismatic super hero performance. Batman Begins had neither.
I was disappointed initially when I heard Keaton had been cast as Batman. But his understated performance as Batman gave the character the enigmatic aura "Batman" needs. Nicholson's Joker was something completely new to superhero movies, a truly over the top, funny/evil/crazy, and altogether memorable, villain.
I can barely remember the villain in BB and Christian Bale's lisping fake voiced Batman has now taken me out of two movies. Kudos to Heath Ledger though for doing Nichloson's legacy justice.
I always assumed the Joker had his mob minions do that.
I must say, though I enjoy the Nolan movies, the concept of "bringing superheroes down to Earth" really does miss the point of superheroes. They're not supposed to be "realistic" but bigger than life.
If you want real, pick a different genre other than comic books to pull your material from.
I think that bubble is burst as soon as the kid is called "Jimmy" or something.
I'm watching the 1989 Batman right now, inspired by this thread, I certainly see the camp of it and even some of that "Burton Stuff" that such a staple now days. But, I dunno, it's a movie I enjoy and the Batman theme for it so much more epic and obvious in this movie, I'm not even sure I can think of what the Bale Batman theme is.
And, come on! This movie has Jack Palance in it! That alone knocks the awesome of this movie up a notch or two!
I think that there's room in this world for the 'naturalistic' depiction and the 'larger than life' interpretation for superheroes. There's no one right way to do them.
I like Keaton as Bruce Wayne/Batman and the sets but Vicki, Knox and the Joker are pretty annnoying, Nicholson looked to different from my ideal Joker look and didn't seem to take the part seriously.
I think Batman Returns was a big improvement, with Penguin, Catwoman and Shreck better villains (nice contrasts to Batman), better story (even though its somewhat chaotic) and action.
Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are in between them; I dislike the too-modern, clean Gotham and in the latter I was I was underwhelmed by Wayne and Ledger's Joker.
I think Batman Returns was a big improvement, with Penguin, Catwoman and Shreck better villains (nice contrasts to Batman), better story (even though its somewhat chaotic) and action.
Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are in between them; I dislike the too-modern, clean Gotham and in the latter I was I was underwhelmed by Wayne and Ledger's Joker.
I'm guessing there's no love for Batman Forever. 
I'm guessing there's no love for Batman Forever.
I enjoyed it, but it was nowhere near as good as 1989.
But it was fine for what it was.
From my viewpoint, fans tend to elevate Burton and demonize Shumacker, when in fact, they did the exact same thing: both made excellent first films, but failed with their second.
I'm guessing there's no love for Batman Forever.
I think Forever is underrated.
Yeah, the bat-nipples were horrendous. However, while it had some really grating scenes (for example, the interaction between Batman and Chase after she used the bat signal), it wasn't much campier than either of the Burton movies.
Kilmer was an improvement over Keaton. The opening was one of the best action scenes in the series. Carrey, a longtime fanboy, did a good job as a Frank Gorshin-inspired Riddler.
Again, it's got its flaws. However, I think a lot of the hate is actually residual venom from the deservedly maligned sequel.
I didn't used to like Returns but I came to really enjoy it once I watched it as the Ultimate Tim Burton movie that happens to have Batman in it.
BATMAN FOREVER is a mixed bag, which gets unfairly lumped in with its execrable sequel:
The good: Some exciting action scenes. Kilmer is bland compared to Keaton, but he's more convincing in the fight scenes. (Especially in BATMAN RETURNS, Keaton's Batman mostly lets his gadgets do his fighting.) Jimmy Carrey does a nice job of channeling Frank Gorshin as the Riddler. Chris O'Donnell as Robin works better than it should.
The bad: Two-Face is completely wasted. Nicole Kidman is mostly just eye candy, and the Gothic atmosphere of the first two films has mostly been replaced by flash and action.
In retrospect, you can see the rot seeping in ("Chicks dig the car."), but FOREVER is watchable, which is more than you can for BATMAN & ROBIN.
The good: Some exciting action scenes. Kilmer is bland compared to Keaton, but he's more convincing in the fight scenes. (Especially in BATMAN RETURNS, Keaton's Batman mostly lets his gadgets do his fighting.) Jimmy Carrey does a nice job of channeling Frank Gorshin as the Riddler. Chris O'Donnell as Robin works better than it should.
The bad: Two-Face is completely wasted. Nicole Kidman is mostly just eye candy, and the Gothic atmosphere of the first two films has mostly been replaced by flash and action.
In retrospect, you can see the rot seeping in ("Chicks dig the car."), but FOREVER is watchable, which is more than you can for BATMAN & ROBIN.
Me too. Mostly because of nostalgia. It's one of the first movies I can remember being really excited for and mostly satisfied with (keep in mind I was about 12 at the time of its release). Coming off "Ace Ventura: Pet Detective", "The Mask", and "Dumb and Dumber", I was big fan of Jim Carrey. I also loved The Riddler, because of growing up watching Frank Gorshin in the role on "Batman" and John Glover in "Batman: The Animated Series". His performance was a decent tribute to Gorshin.
To this day, I still like Kilmer better than Keaton as Batman and Bruce Wayne, and I also thought Chris O'Donnell was an okay Robin (despite the horrible costume). Nicole Kidman was delectable, but I couldn't have predicted she'd become a great actress based on her work in this. I really hated that scene where Batman comes to Chase's bedroom in costume, though. That's probably the worst part to me. Did he expect to get in bed with her like that?
Equally absurd is him being in court in the batsuit! I liked his smile when Chase confessed to being in love with Bruce Wayne, even if it's weird to see Batman smile so broadly.Despite all the lame camp, there were some effective relatively serious moments. For example, there's a great scene in the Batcave where Wayne and Grayson are arguing over Grayson's insistence on becoming his partner to get revenge on Two-Face. It has a rather unintentionally funny serious line where Kilmer very unconvincingly says, "I can stop you", but otherwise works dramatically. Wayne also has some flashbacks to his parents' funeral which are well-acted. Those and the Robin arc give the movie the tiniest bit of dramatic weight.
The movie's portrayal of the Two-Face character is, of course, revolting, but as a kid I didn't mind. I could at least enjoy the movie on a superficial level for the fun set design (Two-Face's room that's split down the middle with a different girlfriend for each side is kind of endearing in its ridiculousness) and The Riddler's crazy island with "holey rusted metal" is sorta neat. It's a profoundly dumb movie, but it is not without its shallow charms.
It means more to me than the 1989 Batman, because while it doesn't have a standout performance like Nicholson's, it has more memorable scenes and a tone that was much more palatable to me as a child. I have no nostalgia for the original Batman, not only because I didn't see it when it was first released, but also because I didn't find it terribly impressive as either drama or camp. "Batman Forever" at least had camp value and a few attempts at seriously exploring Bruce Wayne's past and Dick Grayson's tragedy that I can respect.
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Maybe it's absurd. However, it's also been canon in the comics for decades.
Pre-Long Halloween, most versions of Two Face's origin involved Batman in court in costume.
Furthermore, there were a number of other stories over the years that had Batman called to testify in court. Even post-Crisis, there were a handful of references in the comic books to Batman, and other superheroes testifying, in costume in the DCU. Specifically, in the Wolfman written 1980s Teen Titans series, during the trial of Deathstroke, a reference was made to a court ruling in the DCU that allowed superheroes to testify in costume and without giving their real names for safety reasons.
I'm guessing there's no love for Batman Forever.
I thought it was decent, though my like for the film has diminished over time. I thought Val Kilmer was good as Bruce/Bats and Chris O'Donnell wasn't a bad Robin. But just about everything else in the film blew. Jim Carrey was way over the top and unfortunately so was Tommy Lee Jones, who played Two Face like he was the Joker. The travesty of Batman & Robin (the only Batman film I have never watched the whole way through) saves Batman Forever. I must admit that I did love the scene of the Dynamic Duo running at the end.
As for 1989 Batman, even as a kid I saw that it didn't live up to the hype, but how could it, that movie was so hyped it was an event. That being said, I still think it holds up. Keaton surprised me with how good he turned out to be as both Bruce and Bats. Jack Nicholson was great as the Joker, funny and malevolent all at the same time. Kim Basinger was the hottest Batman love interest, and so far the best in the films, IMO, well, maybe second to Michelle Pfieffer (sp). The production values worked for me. It had great atmosphere. That Batman suit is my favorite, as is the Batmobile. Also, it is the most quotable Batman film. Both Danny Elfman and Prince provided great music for the film. Nothing has quite come along like it since, with the possible exceptions of Spider-Man and maybe Dark Knight Returns in terms of it being a juggernaut.