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Manny fails drug/IQ test

MikeH92467

Admiral
Admiral
After an off season where he conducted himself as a model citizen, Manny Ramirez abruptly retired yesterday rather than face a 100 game suspension for testing 'roid positive during spring training. He just disappeared after the retest of his urine sample confirmed the positive. So much for the Manram era in Tampa Bay and so much for his chances of making the Hall of Fame. Funny, after going 0-6 with him in their lineup and average just over a run per game, they scored 9 runs without him last night and won their first game. Go figure.
 
I wonder, where should we rank him amongst the other steroid hyped stars of the game?

The more we find out other ball players that juiced, the more I respect Ken Griffy. If he had juiced, he would probably have over 800 career HR by now. I say he is the only slugger of this era that gets into Cooperstown without any controversy.
 
Plus side: No more "Manny Being Manny"
Cons: fantasy team took a hit in the "probably gonna hit some home runs in the future" department
 
Fred McGriff hit 493 HR without a hint of juice. He belongs in. In fact, I believe every one of the suspected juicers who has the numbers should get in. Not putting them in just participating in a cover up. I agree with Bob Costas: put them in with the notation on their plaque that they played in the "steroid era".
 
It's really not a cover up though. They won't be in the Hall and everybody knows why. I'll be disgusted if any of those cheating fuckers gets even one more accolade to their name.
 
This is all nonsense anyway. Players are taking other PEDs at this point and they are harder to detect. Manny was being stupid by taking whatever was detectable. He can afford anything he wants. In an atmosphere where so many athletes are taking these theres no reson to be selective...Arod, McGwire, etc all belong in the Hall of Fame. Steroids cannot create talent that can hit .300 with power, or hit curve balls and sliders at 80+mph. Utter nonsense.

I still think PEDs should be legal in all sports, and regulated medically. Steroids were only banned by a knee jerk Congress in 1991 who listened to anectodal sob stories over the professional opinions of 3 seperate scientific and medical bodies who recommended they should not be banned.
 
Steroids cannot create talent that can hit .300 with power, or hit curve balls and sliders at 80+mph. Utter nonsense.

This is true. They can't create that kind of talent, but they sure as fuck augment it. Or is it a coincidence that Barry Bonds (who started off pretty talented anyway) started hitting home runs in bunches around the same time that his head ballooned to the size of a fucking watermelon?

Or Roger Clemens, who was bound for the Hall of Fame even before he started juicing. Oh, but then he suddenly became one of the most dominant pitchers in history in his mid-30's? Gimme a break, man.

Whether steroids should be allowed or not is a slightly different discussion. The fact is that they're not allowed and every single one of these bastards is an unscrupulous cheater and the thought of honoring them for it is fucking ludicrous.
 
Sure, Manny had talent. But he was also a total jerk who was the ultimate 'clubhouse killer'. The former does not excuse the latter.
 
Sure, Manny had talent. But he was also a total jerk who was the ultimate 'clubhouse killer'. The former does not excuse the latter.

Yup, an idiot and a jerk, also with talent, and also took PEDs. You can't tell that to any Boston fan who saw him from 2004-2007 of course.

RAMA
 
Steroids cannot create talent that can hit .300 with power, or hit curve balls and sliders at 80+mph. Utter nonsense.

This is true. They can't create that kind of talent, but they sure as fuck augment it. Or is it a coincidence that Barry Bonds (who started off pretty talented anyway) started hitting home runs in bunches around the same time that his head ballooned to the size of a fucking watermelon?

Or Roger Clemens, who was bound for the Hall of Fame even before he started juicing. Oh, but then he suddenly became one of the most dominant pitchers in history in his mid-30's? Gimme a break, man.

Whether steroids should be allowed or not is a slightly different discussion. The fact is that they're not allowed and every single one of these bastards is an unscrupulous cheater and the thought of honoring them for it is fucking ludicrous.

Yes, but if they were banned for spurious reasons, then then the whole issue of what's fair or not comes into question. To me these drugs are nothing more than supplements...far less dangerous than aspirin and the common cheeseburger in real impact on the avg person's health who'd take them. So if anyone wants to put asterisks by the records, fine, I reserve the right to put an asterisk by the baseball rules.

Also, there are other pitchers who were good in their 30s who didn't take anything over the decades. Clemens' numbers aren't wildly different through any part of his career.

RAMA
 
Yes, but if they were banned for spurious reasons, then then the whole issue of what's fair or not comes into question.

Not really. Ban 'em all. Boom. Level playing field. Fair for everybody. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

To me these drugs are nothing more than supplements...far less dangerous than aspirin and the common cheeseburger in real impact on the avg person's health who'd take them.

I'm not a doctor or anything so I'm not going to take specific issue with this. I wouldn't be surprised if there's evidence to the contrary though.

Also, there are other pitchers who were good in their 30s who didn't take anything over the decades. Clemens' numbers aren't wildly different through any part of his career.

If you look at his stats, the guy won the Cy Young both when he was 24 and 42 (and a few other years too) and his numbers for both years are really similiar. Obviously also really good. Now, maybe Roger Clemens is just naturally a superhuman exception to the rule, but pitchers don't put up career numbers like that when they're 42. Also worth noting, the guy was up to his eyeballs in steroids at the time.

Now, if taking steroids is about as dangerous and consequential to performance as popping aspirin, as you claim, why the hell was he jeopardizing his career for basically nothing? The answer is people take steroids because it provides a clear advantage. I've heard Jose Canseco make similar arguments to what you're saying, and quite frankly, it's all bullshit. They aren't doing it because it's fun, they do it because, assuming you already had some natural facility for the game, steroids make you better.

Steroids can't make it easier to hit a 93mph fastball, but if you connect with one and you're artificially stronger, you might be getting an extra 50 or 75 feet on your fly balls. A lot of those are going to leave the yard. Advantage.

But none of that really matters. The bottom line is there's doubt. Are Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds as good as their numbers suggest? It's impossible to tell because they were cheating. Ergo, fuck those guys. They can go tell sob stories with Pete Rose. You commit gross violations of the rules, you get what you fucking deserve.
 
I'll miss Manny being Manny. He was basically the most elaborate troll MLB has ever seen.
 
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