Anyone agree with McKay on why SGU got cancelled?
- Thread starter Romulan_spy
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For Me, Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis were never "Must See" TV, if I missed an episode it was no big deal. There weren't alot of outstanding episodes, IMHo, but, then, there weren't many bad episodes either, so it was always worth the time it took to watch.
So, I was excited to hear SGU was taking Stargate to the next level. Sadly, though, in S1, there was just nothing to get me into it. Matter of fact, that shuttle taking off at the end of an episode in early S1 (Ep 3 or 4, I think) was what kept me clinging on, hoping that was going to be a major reveal when we found about it (Did that ever get addressed again, I don't remember it being)
S2 has been a bit better, but, there just isn't a lot about SGU that thrills me.
I've watched every episode, and a couple have been fairly decent, but, there's a whole lot more mediocre/blah episodes, IMHO, then there were in SG-1 and SGA
So, I was excited to hear SGU was taking Stargate to the next level. Sadly, though, in S1, there was just nothing to get me into it. Matter of fact, that shuttle taking off at the end of an episode in early S1 (Ep 3 or 4, I think) was what kept me clinging on, hoping that was going to be a major reveal when we found about it (Did that ever get addressed again, I don't remember it being)
S2 has been a bit better, but, there just isn't a lot about SGU that thrills me.
I've watched every episode, and a couple have been fairly decent, but, there's a whole lot more mediocre/blah episodes, IMHO, then there were in SG-1 and SGA
Um, it wasn't a shuttle, it was the alien ship that was found in Justice.
That's the first I heard of that theory.
Of course like every other ship board scene it was too dark for such fine distinctions. So what became of the aliens?
You may like a darker more serious tone, but a lot of people don't. People have said as much, both here and on the Syfy forums. And while I don't think it's the only reason for the show's failure, I do believe it is one reason.
The stargate sort of fell by the wayside on the other shows as well. That's nothing new. But yeah, they should make use of the gate more.
I didn't feel like it got neglected on SGA, although there were definitely times in SG-1 where I felt they lost focus of the gate. Every time I watch season 8 I feel like I could be counting on one hand how many times they actually step through the gate. Not quite so bad in season 9 and 10 that I remember, but as the show went on, I definitely wished the focus was put back more on random exploring through the gate, rather than it merely being a means to an end to get from point A to point B. Even though the first two seasons were among the weaker ones, I always loved the standalone "planet of the week" episodes they did before the Goa'uld / Ori arcs got more prominent.
Checkmate
Commodore
No, I disagree.
The problem is that they tried to make an adult show, but ended up making a craptastically boring, teen angsty, random fucking, music montaging soap opera that even bored housewives found trite and eye-rolling.
It's a bad show at its foundation. Even the one or two decent actors their equally crappy casting directors managed to score couldn't fix that.
The Stargate universe could easily handle a real dramatic series. SGU isn't one. It's a big, fat, stinking joke of a show courtesy of the writing staff and their equally stupid ideas about what an adult drama should be.
The problem is that they tried to make an adult show, but ended up making a craptastically boring, teen angsty, random fucking, music montaging soap opera that even bored housewives found trite and eye-rolling.
It's a bad show at its foundation. Even the one or two decent actors their equally crappy casting directors managed to score couldn't fix that.
The Stargate universe could easily handle a real dramatic series. SGU isn't one. It's a big, fat, stinking joke of a show courtesy of the writing staff and their equally stupid ideas about what an adult drama should be.
SGU was just too dramatic of a shift that didn't need to happen, SGA was doing fine, they should just moved SGA into a more darker territory if they wanted that. In fact I thought there is where SGA was going, remember we were going to get more stuff about those Borg Aliens they met in the AU in S6, that might have been darker if those aliens became a prominent part of the season. The real problem here is, they dropped SGA for this huge shift that didn't need to happen, they could have just continued making SGA better.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel?
The term 'teen angst' needs to die because it doesn't really apply to the show. It has become a catch-all term for saying 'I don't like this show' and is extremely vague in meaning.
I sometimes think that I'm watching an entirely different show than other people. The show isn't perfect but it shouldn't generate such negative emotions by anyone. I feel bad that someone is shitting so much on a show I generally find good.
Anyway, SGU is too slow. That's the result of their philosophy of spending more time on the characters. In SG1/SGA, they would cut scenes that don't contribute to the story. In SGU they tend to linger more on the psychological aspect of the characters. One huge mistake is extending the episodes 'Air III', 'Light', and 'Incursion II'. We would have had three more stories in season 1 including "The Greater Good" which revealed Destiny's mission.
The bigger problem with SGU is that the target audience just isn't there. People aren't willing to spend a full season for a show to ramp up, no matter how realistic it might seem to the characters. That's why shows like Charlie Jade, Caprica, and Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles (season 2) fail.
It's just different. It's not bad.
The reason it got cancelled is very very simple: they tried to go for the BSG style, and missed. Badly.
There's an obvious market for BSG style "dark & gritty" - frakheads are still around and searching for something worth watching on TV (I know I am, what a wasteland!!) - but before you can appeal to that crowd you have to actually be able to deliver it.
Initially, I was happy to hear about the change of tone. Then I got a good look at the product. Ugh. It was obvious that the Stargate producers were trying their best but simply don't know how to pull off that style. MGM should have hired the BSG writers and producers, who no doubt could have done a far better job, since they've proven their ability to do so, if they thought the franchise needed a different direction.
However, I might start watching the remaining episodes, just out of curiosity. Shows often get better when they stop needing to pad out a story, and can get right into a final story arc.
There's an obvious market for BSG style "dark & gritty" - frakheads are still around and searching for something worth watching on TV (I know I am, what a wasteland!!) - but before you can appeal to that crowd you have to actually be able to deliver it.
Initially, I was happy to hear about the change of tone. Then I got a good look at the product. Ugh. It was obvious that the Stargate producers were trying their best but simply don't know how to pull off that style. MGM should have hired the BSG writers and producers, who no doubt could have done a far better job, since they've proven their ability to do so, if they thought the franchise needed a different direction.
However, I might start watching the remaining episodes, just out of curiosity. Shows often get better when they stop needing to pad out a story, and can get right into a final story arc.
I think there's also still a market for light & fluffy, family-friendly space opera. The Stargate writers/producers were probably just tired of doing that over and over. And I wasn't thrilled about the idea of yet another show in that vein - it's always been the actors, like RDA and Joe Flanigan, who have held my interest, so jumping to a new series in the franchise takes the big risk that the casting won't pan out, and then you've got nothing left but the fluff.
The Stargate writers/producers are just the wrong crew to be doing a BSG style show. Instead, they should come up with a different idea for a fluffy space opera, maybe with more of a direct comedy component (and hire comedy writers if needed). I could see them doing a Misfits of Space series pretty well: colorful, fun, doesn't take itself too seriously. Hewlett could play the beleaguered captain of the ship. Practically writes itself.
The Skiffy honchos should carve out space in their schedule for at least one fluffy space opera and one dark space opera (I'd prefer the Farscape zany style than the BSG angsty style). And definitely farm out the dark space opera to writers and producers who have shown they can handle that style. That is, if they ever get sick of WWF and cooking shows.
Better yet, maybe HBO, AMC or TNT will become interested in space opera because I've pretty much written off Skiffy at this point. Or Showtime. They have a little franchise called Star Trek that their parent company holds the TV rights to...
The Stargate writers/producers are just the wrong crew to be doing a BSG style show. Instead, they should come up with a different idea for a fluffy space opera, maybe with more of a direct comedy component (and hire comedy writers if needed). I could see them doing a Misfits of Space series pretty well: colorful, fun, doesn't take itself too seriously. Hewlett could play the beleaguered captain of the ship. Practically writes itself.
The Skiffy honchos should carve out space in their schedule for at least one fluffy space opera and one dark space opera (I'd prefer the Farscape zany style than the BSG angsty style). And definitely farm out the dark space opera to writers and producers who have shown they can handle that style. That is, if they ever get sick of WWF and cooking shows.
Better yet, maybe HBO, AMC or TNT will become interested in space opera because I've pretty much written off Skiffy at this point. Or Showtime. They have a little franchise called Star Trek that their parent company holds the TV rights to...
Probably not going to get a Final Story Arc. They were cancelled after all the episodes were completed
The problem with the BSG stigma is exactly that - it's a stigma. BSG has become an instant straw man people dredge up to compare anything that is "gritty" against. Battlestar is too much of a meme for its own good.
However, I do agree with much of Hewlett's idea. SGU is beautifully done, in every way, and that includes the casting and conceptually. It has the best ensemble cast in a science fiction series since Firefly. And a great deal of its problem is that it's not within the relatively narrow range that a big core of Stargate demand it be. The irony is that unlike some spinoffs and sequels which are "in name only" SGU is quite firmly within the Stargate universe (pun not intended), as that universe expanded from the original concept of SG-1.
But, while there is a legitimate point that the very nature of SGU shifted it away from appealing to a family demographic, beyond just a family audience, SGU demonstrated how your own fans can be your worst enemy. A lot of fans are practically irrational with regards to the show. The problem with Stargate itself may be that it fits into its self-created niche too well. If it tries to stretch its legs and grow, the core fans who will prop up the ratings will walk out.
A lot of fans berate the producers of SGU for "blaming its failure on the fans". I don't think that's entirely correct. Based on what I've read, I think the producers of SGU misinterpreted what the fans where saying. They felt the fans were being impatient, where too quick to judge having come in front another Stargate series, and honestly, were probably frustrated by it, hence their less than diplomatic tone on the subject. What they failed to recognize is that the fans weren't impatient - they didn't want it at all. They misjudged how married Stargate fans were to a very specific formula. Had they understood that, I suspect they wouldn't have bothered making any comments "blaming the fans" - they'd have known there'd be no point. You can't entreat people who don't want to parley.
Instead, they might've thrown in a lot more classic/stereotypical (take your pick) Stargate elements early on to take a more active hand in weaning fans from their expectations into the new show; make them hang around long enough so they'd see that there was a bigger plan in SGU for a story premise larger than had been attempted so far in Stargate.
However, I do agree with much of Hewlett's idea. SGU is beautifully done, in every way, and that includes the casting and conceptually. It has the best ensemble cast in a science fiction series since Firefly. And a great deal of its problem is that it's not within the relatively narrow range that a big core of Stargate demand it be. The irony is that unlike some spinoffs and sequels which are "in name only" SGU is quite firmly within the Stargate universe (pun not intended), as that universe expanded from the original concept of SG-1.
But, while there is a legitimate point that the very nature of SGU shifted it away from appealing to a family demographic, beyond just a family audience, SGU demonstrated how your own fans can be your worst enemy. A lot of fans are practically irrational with regards to the show. The problem with Stargate itself may be that it fits into its self-created niche too well. If it tries to stretch its legs and grow, the core fans who will prop up the ratings will walk out.
A lot of fans berate the producers of SGU for "blaming its failure on the fans". I don't think that's entirely correct. Based on what I've read, I think the producers of SGU misinterpreted what the fans where saying. They felt the fans were being impatient, where too quick to judge having come in front another Stargate series, and honestly, were probably frustrated by it, hence their less than diplomatic tone on the subject. What they failed to recognize is that the fans weren't impatient - they didn't want it at all. They misjudged how married Stargate fans were to a very specific formula. Had they understood that, I suspect they wouldn't have bothered making any comments "blaming the fans" - they'd have known there'd be no point. You can't entreat people who don't want to parley.
Instead, they might've thrown in a lot more classic/stereotypical (take your pick) Stargate elements early on to take a more active hand in weaning fans from their expectations into the new show; make them hang around long enough so they'd see that there was a bigger plan in SGU for a story premise larger than had been attempted so far in Stargate.
I don't fully agree with him. He's right about some of the changes, but the stuff about grandparents and kids is bunk, at least as far as my household is concerned.
I don't have a family, just a partner. We are a two mature adult household who used to love Stargate.
After about two-thirds of the first season of SGU, my partner said, "You don't have to wait for me to watch these recordings anymore, I don't care what happens to these people."
And I have to admit, I didn't either. Though I continued watching out of loyalty to the franchise.
The show was so dark and dreary, and the characters had few redeeming qualities. Some of the main characters committed what I consider irredeemable acts. There was not an ounce of color or anything positive in the show, except for the homelife of the character played by Ming Na. I was pleasantly surprised to see an LGBT relationship finally portrayed in a realistic light on television. (And I have to admit, not seeing that continue is the only reason I shall mourn the passing of this show, aside from the larger possibility that it may have killed the entire franchise.)
So I hung around from beginning to end, and here's my assessment: There's only so much hand-wringing and "omg how long until we die" people can (and will) watch. IMO, they removed everything that made the Stargate franchise successful, and then blamed the audience for not watching.
I don't have a family, just a partner. We are a two mature adult household who used to love Stargate.
After about two-thirds of the first season of SGU, my partner said, "You don't have to wait for me to watch these recordings anymore, I don't care what happens to these people."
And I have to admit, I didn't either. Though I continued watching out of loyalty to the franchise.
The show was so dark and dreary, and the characters had few redeeming qualities. Some of the main characters committed what I consider irredeemable acts. There was not an ounce of color or anything positive in the show, except for the homelife of the character played by Ming Na. I was pleasantly surprised to see an LGBT relationship finally portrayed in a realistic light on television. (And I have to admit, not seeing that continue is the only reason I shall mourn the passing of this show, aside from the larger possibility that it may have killed the entire franchise.)
So I hung around from beginning to end, and here's my assessment: There's only so much hand-wringing and "omg how long until we die" people can (and will) watch. IMO, they removed everything that made the Stargate franchise successful, and then blamed the audience for not watching.
Doctor Who successfully had a very adult series spun off from it, a much harder prospect for it than for Stargate. . And while I love Torchwood now, I can't lie and say season one was without it's problems. But those problems weren't necessarily the 'adult' elements, but rather, how the show seemed to shove those elements at us to prove how grown up they were being. However, by the second season, the show improved, and now, it's creaky beginnings are all but forgotten. If s1 of SGU had been better written and paced, I believe even those who were wary of it would have fallen in line, just as early Torchwood viewers did.
Again, it's not the so called dark and gritty(tm) meme that most reacted to. It's the fact that, sadly, S1 just wasn't as good as it should have been, opening the door for the visceral haters to solidify into a visible (bbs) faction. If the show had been engaging, there would not have been a fan backlash.
The show had two interesting characters given anything like depth and dealing with the environment they were in, Rush and Eli. The other cast were variously edgy, bitchy or just trite and uninteresting. I hated the stones, having Earth just popping in every other episode eviscerated any sense of 'out of touch' the cast might have had for the audience. One could describe the show's fault as either drifting too far from the Stargate concept or not going away far enough to define itself satisfactorily. I suppose one might call it the Voyager of the franchise for that.
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