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The First Interracial Kiss on (American) Television

I'd love to see you in a discussion with Nichelle Nichols.
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I do not agree with her at all. I watched a 3 hour interview with her on Youtube that she did about a year ago and ... Her take on it was, " As an actor I didn't like it but for Uhura... that is what she had wanted/dealt with/done with ". She keeps saying how she developed this story for Uhura and she used that to play the role with dignity.

If you have to resort to whatever material you create in your own head to justify why, or to compensate, the show's producers and writer's dicked your character then that means you're in denial about it.

Women in general were treated worse over all. They were set decoration, sex objects, people to be comforted and frightened, or evil. But never in command. I don't give a crap what the man said in public, but Roddenberry's attitude toward women was not at all groundbreaking. If he wasn't boinking Majel, Number One probably would have been a man. Or not existed at all. The network had no problem with a woman having command responsibilities, they had a problem of being forced to use Roddenberry's squeeze.
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The misogyny in Star Trek was disgusting at times. Roddenberry put his two mistresses on Star Trek. If he wasn't sleeping with Nichelle, he probably would have never approached her with the character and had he not been sleeping with Majel she probably would have never got on the show either.

There were women in command on the show though. If they did hold power they were either useless (The Romulan Commander), a bitch (The lawyer from Court Martial), or a temptress (Girl of the Week from A Private little War). The Romulan Commander really pisses me off because we see a woman in command of a ship, finally, and what happens? She screws everything up because she couldn't look past her girly infatuation with Spock.
 
indranee said:
How? Nimoy's family was Russian in origin. I'm not sure what Shatner's ethnicity is. And don't say he's Jewish. That's not really an ethnicity. I have Indian friends who're Jewish.
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There is an ethnic component to being Jewish. Its not like a bunch of Russians, Germans other Europeans (and Asians) converted to Judaism, though some did. They are the decendents of folks from the Israel/Palestine/the Middle East region who immigrated to Europe and other parts of Asia. And once there they did adopt the languages spoken in those regions but they also developed their own language in the form of Yiddish. And of course there was some intermarriage with the locals.

Interesting note on the origin of the name "Nimoy"
The surname "Nimoy" is a direct transliteration of the common slavic word, meaning "mute". When used as a surname, however, it does not actually mean mute. In the past, Slavs often applied it to foreigners, such as Germans or Hungarians, who did not speak the local language. The Slovenian term for a German, "Nemec", (nem = mute) was derived in the same way.
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I can see why a Jewish family might gain the surname in a Slavic country.

As for Shatner, I found this
The Schattner family name appears to belong to, at least, two distinct families. One family - to which I belong - is Jewish and comes from the town of Kuty (or Kitev in Yiddish) which is currently part of the Ukraine. Except when noted otherwise this is the family that I will be referring to in this website as the "Schattner Family." (The other Schattner family is located primarily in Germany, Austria and the Midwest of the United States and is not Jewish. There are genealogical records for this Schattner family going back to at least 1665 in Germany. It is interesting to consider whether the two Schattner families may have been related at some point in the distant past. However I am aware of no evidence to support this speculation.)
Origin of the Schattner Name
Because of the very limited geneological records in Eastern Europe - especially for Jews - information about the Schattner family prior to the early 1800's is virtually non-existent. The origin of the Schattner name is obscure as well. Most members of the family appear to believe that the name stems from the German word "Schatten" meaning shadow. However an alternative explanation in the "Encyclopedia of Jewish Names" suggests that the name Schattner came from the Polish word "szata" meaning garment. This interpretation appears plausible especially since several of the Schattners of the 19th century appear to have been in the garment business. Yet another claimed origin comes from an old German genealogical book which claims that the name Schattner comes from old Lower German word "Schatter" meaning appraiser or money collector.
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Surnames can come from various sources. Location, occupation, origin and appearance can be factors. That Shatner or Nimoy's family gained their surnames after migrating ito Eastern Europe doesn't suprise me. Did Jews even use surnames before arriving in Europe? I thought they use patronamics like "Judah ben Yusef"

Jews in Europe were isolated by culture and religon so maintaining their ethnic Jewishness along with their religious Jewishness was "easy" by choice and circumstances.
 
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Back to the OT, I used the term "interracial" because that's how it's constantly referred to in the media, ignoring the blurry lines of what "race" supposedly means.

I don't agree that it was the first "passionate" white/black kiss ob US TV, either, since it's two people being forced to bring their lips together against their will, and Kirk gives a hateful glare at those forcing it during the brief instant we see this supposed kiss.

I think the best thing in the "Bonanzarosa" skit is when "Ma" is about to kiss "Haas", and you can see the fake-out they're pulling. Grier looks like he's about to kiss Cass on the lips, then goes for the forehead. For an instant, the audience thinks it's gonna happen.
 
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Potemkin_Prod said:
Shon T'Hara said:
To Ben Franklin, "white" meant "Anglo-Saxon" -- he wouldn't even have considered Scotty a white man.
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Do you have a source to back up this assertion?
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Ben Franklin said:
Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.
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If you look at 19th and early 20th Century anti-immigrant literature, you can find plenty of examples of the Irish, Italians, Greeks, and Slavs being considered non-white.
 
Shon T'Hara said:
Potemkin_Prod said:
Shon T'Hara said:
To Ben Franklin, "white" meant "Anglo-Saxon" -- he wouldn't even have considered Scotty a white man.
Click to expand...

Do you have a source to back up this assertion?
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Ben Franklin said:
Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.
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If you look at 19th and early 20th Century anti-immigrant literature, you can find plenty of examples of the Irish, Italians, Greeks, and Slavs being considered non-white.
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Perhaps, but you asserted Franklin wouldn't consider the Scots white. I don't think you've proven that with your quote.
 
Potemkin_Prod said:
Shon T'Hara said:
Potemkin_Prod said:
Do you have a source to back up this assertion?
Click to expand...

Ben Franklin said:
Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.
Click to expand...

If you look at 19th and early 20th Century anti-immigrant literature, you can find plenty of examples of the Irish, Italians, Greeks, and Slavs being considered non-white.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but you asserted Franklin wouldn't consider the Scots white. I don't think you've proven that with your quote.
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Well the Scots aren't English or Saxon.
 
Merky said:
Desilu and NBC made sure that Uhura stayed in the background so that the show would not offend the South...
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No, that's not accurate.

Uhura was in the background because she was a background character, not because of her race. It wasn't NBC or Desilu's decision, as looking at the other network programming at that time proves. NBC's own I Spy ran for a year prior to Star Trek and had a black actor (Bill Cosby) as one of the two stars. Desilu's own Mission: Impossible ran concurrently with Trek (starting in 1966) over on CBS and one of the regulars was black actor Greg Morris, playing the team's resident mechanical and electronics genius (and owner of an electronics company). Finally, Julia, starring Diane Carol as the lead ran from 1968 (Trek's 3rd season) to 1971.

The book Inside Star Trek reprints an NBC memo asking for more racial diversity in casting. The network wasn't looking to put anyone in the background (except, maybe, Spock, at first).
 
Well said, DS9Sega.

NBC insisted its producers assemble racially diverse casts.

The first interracial relationship should have been between Lazarus and Lt. Masters in The Alternative Factor, but someone (nobody seems to know for sure who it was) ordered the script to be heavily re-written (dropping the romance plot) at the last minute when the black actress Janet MacLachlan was cast as Masters.

A thought : was John Drew Barrymore's infamous no-show on the first day of filming some kind of protest about the script change?
 
Merky said:
I'd love to see you in a discussion with Nichelle Nichols.
Click to expand...
I do not agree with her at all. I watched a 3 hour interview with her on Youtube that she did about a year ago and ... Her take on it was, " As an actor I didn't like it but for Uhura... that is what she had wanted/dealt with/done with ". She keeps saying how she developed this story for Uhura and she used that to play the role with dignity.

If you have to resort to whatever material you create in your own head to justify why, or to compensate, the show's producers and writer's dicked your character then that means you're in denial about it.

Women in general were treated worse over all. They were set decoration, sex objects, people to be comforted and frightened, or evil. But never in command. I don't give a crap what the man said in public, but Roddenberry's attitude toward women was not at all groundbreaking. If he wasn't boinking Majel, Number One probably would have been a man. Or not existed at all. The network had no problem with a woman having command responsibilities, they had a problem of being forced to use Roddenberry's squeeze.
Click to expand...
The misogyny in Star Trek was disgusting at times. Roddenberry put his two mistresses on Star Trek. If he wasn't sleeping with Nichelle, he probably would have never approached her with the character and had he not been sleeping with Majel she probably would have never got on the show either.

There were women in command on the show though. If they did hold power they were either useless (The Romulan Commander), a bitch (The lawyer from Court Martial), or a temptress (Girl of the Week from A Private little War). The Romulan Commander really pisses me off because we see a woman in command of a ship, finally, and what happens? She screws everything up because she couldn't look past her girly infatuation with Spock.
Click to expand...

Yep, yep, and yep. And don't even get me started on Turnabout Intruder.
 
Nerys Myk said:
indranee said:
How? Nimoy's family was Russian in origin. I'm not sure what Shatner's ethnicity is. And don't say he's Jewish. That's not really an ethnicity. I have Indian friends who're Jewish.
Click to expand...
There is an ethnic component to being Jewish. Its not like a bunch of Russians, Germans other Europeans (and Asians) converted to Judaism, though some did. They are the decendents of folks from the Israel/Palestine/the Middle East region who immigrated to Europe and other parts of Asia. And once there they did adopt the languages spoken in those regions but they also developed their own language in the form of Yiddish. And of course there was some intermarriage with the locals.

Interesting note on the origin of the name "Nimoy"
The surname "Nimoy" is a direct transliteration of the common slavic word, meaning "mute". When used as a surname, however, it does not actually mean mute. In the past, Slavs often applied it to foreigners, such as Germans or Hungarians, who did not speak the local language. The Slovenian term for a German, "Nemec", (nem = mute) was derived in the same way.
Click to expand...
I can see why a Jewish family might gain the surname in a Slavic country.

As for Shatner, I found this
The Schattner family name appears to belong to, at least, two distinct families. One family - to which I belong - is Jewish and comes from the town of Kuty (or Kitev in Yiddish) which is currently part of the Ukraine. Except when noted otherwise this is the family that I will be referring to in this website as the "Schattner Family." (The other Schattner family is located primarily in Germany, Austria and the Midwest of the United States and is not Jewish. There are genealogical records for this Schattner family going back to at least 1665 in Germany. It is interesting to consider whether the two Schattner families may have been related at some point in the distant past. However I am aware of no evidence to support this speculation.)
Origin of the Schattner Name
Because of the very limited geneological records in Eastern Europe - especially for Jews - information about the Schattner family prior to the early 1800's is virtually non-existent. The origin of the Schattner name is obscure as well. Most members of the family appear to believe that the name stems from the German word "Schatten" meaning shadow. However an alternative explanation in the "Encyclopedia of Jewish Names" suggests that the name Schattner came from the Polish word "szata" meaning garment. This interpretation appears plausible especially since several of the Schattners of the 19th century appear to have been in the garment business. Yet another claimed origin comes from an old German genealogical book which claims that the name Schattner comes from old Lower German word "Schatter" meaning appraiser or money collector.
Click to expand...
Surnames can come from various sources. Location, occupation, origin and appearance can be factors. That Shatner or Nimoy's family gained their surnames after migrating ito Eastern Europe doesn't suprise me. Did Jews even use surnames before arriving in Europe? I thought they use patronamics like "Judah ben Yusef"

Jews in Europe were isolated by culture and religon so maintaining their ethnic Jewishness along with their religious Jewishness was "easy" by choice and circumstances.
Click to expand...

You are, of course, correct. And also not. The Indians I knew are not "Semites" in any way but converted by a migrant group when they came over to India two centuries ago. So, the point is moot, really. And I think as time goes on but Judaism survives (as it has over millenia), we will be encountering more and more of these "non-Semite" Jews.
 
indranee said:
You are, of course, correct. And also not. The Indians I knew are not "Semites" in any way but converted by a migrant group when they came over to India two centuries ago. So, the point is moot, really. And I think as time goes on but Judaism survives (as it has over millenia), we will be encountering more and more of these "non-Semite" Jews.
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Your Indian friends aren't typical though. Judaism is not a religion were conversion is common or actively persued. In Christian dominated Europe ( where Nimoy and Shatner's families migrated to) very few people converted to Judaism. Not to be overly dramatic, but it would be like putting a bullet in your brain to do so. When your reputation is that of the baby killing, Christ murdering, money lending scapegoats for all evil you dont get many converts. Read up on the Pogroms. against the Jews in Europe for an idea of how they were seen and treated.
 
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