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In retrospect, Batman(1989) is really baadd

I recall watching the 89 movie 5 years or so ago and being shocked at how SLOW it was. Didn't Batman not really appear in it until an hour in or something?

When I was a kid I thought Batman Returns was the greatest thing since sliced bread... aside from the penguin army at the ending. Even as a little kid, that was just stupid :lol:
 
Gotta disagree here. This is my favorite Batman movie. Gorgeous visuals, atmosphere, music.

I admire the new films, too, but they're almost a little too "realistic." To my mind, there's nothing in them to match, say, that great shot of the Joker's bleached hand rising from the green toxic waste, or the Batmobile racing through a shadowy forest with autumn leaves blowing in its wake.

That's pure pulp poetry!

Some good backgrounds and models, just not shot very well. Design work was nice, it just comes together badly and looks cheap. Studio lot sets don't do the movie justice at all and wastes the effort by Anton Furst. The "acid-waste" was cartoony. The models look fake, especially the bat plane.


But it wasn't meant to look real. I loved the fact that it looked like a color version of an old Universal monster flick. The electrical machinery in the chemical factory looked like something straight out of Karloff's FRANKENSTEIN--but with the added bonus of a 1930's pulp-style Batman.

And why shouldn't the toxic waste look cartoony? It's a comic book origin story.

It's funny. When the movie first opened, it saw it twice--with two very different groups of friends.

The first time was with a bunch of hardcore, comics-reading, convention-going scifi fans. We all loved it . . . and breathed a collective sigh of relief that it wasn't a campfest like the Adam West version.

The next time was with some co-workers from the office. They were disappointed. Why wasn't it as funny as the tv show? Where were the cartoon sound effects? They thought it should have been campier . . . .

How times change.

I saw it once with 2 friends and my sister. I don't think any of them thought it lived up to the hype. I just kept waiting for Keaton to say something...anything!! He has less dialogue than the secondary characters. He's awful in the underwritten role.
 
Keaton's Agent: "Mike! Good news! Some guy named Tim Burton called and he's interested in using you for his new movie!"

Keaton: "That's great! What's the part!"

KA: "Buddy, you're going to love this; you're going to be... Batman!"

K: "Batman?! Really?! Me?! Well, gosh, we better start a work-out program so I can start to look a bit more like a man who can kick the ass of criminals and swing through city-streets on a wire."

KA: "Nah, don't worry about any of that stuff they're just going to stick you in a rubber suit where you'll barely be able to move but there'll be muscle-looking ridges and formations on the suit to sell the look."

K: "Oh. Okay, hey, isn't Batman supposed to be a handsome bachelor millionaire or something."

KA: "Eh, don't worry about it. It'll work out."

K: "Awesome."

Adam West: "I feel a disturbance in the force."
 
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Gotta disagree here. This is my favorite Batman movie. Gorgeous visuals, atmosphere, music.

I admire the new films, too, but they're almost a little too "realistic." To my mind, there's nothing in them to match, say, that great shot of the Joker's bleached hand rising from the green toxic waste, or the Batmobile racing through a shadowy forest with autumn leaves blowing in its wake.

That's pure pulp poetry!

Agreed 100%. Also, I liked Burton's Gotham better than Nolan's. Gotham City is supposed to have as much of a personality as any flesh and blood character. It's supposed to dark and dirty and noir-ish, and Burton nailed this. Nolan's Gotham could be any city.
 
I know there's the opening scene with the two robbers, but do you actually see him in that scene? I just saw it while channel flipping the other day and he seemed to be totally in shadow for that.
 
I never enjoyed the film, even back then. I was thrown off by Keaton's casting and my fears were comfirmed, he just lacked the gravitas that Batman needed. Also I thought Nicholson ran off with the film and his Joker just dominated everything to the point that no one cared about anyone else (including Wayne/Batman).

A friend once told me that this film was so Joker centric that his girlfriend who didn't know anything about Batman thought that the Joker was supposed to be the hero based on how much they showed the Joker. I think that the limited appearances of Batman in his suit probably added to that impression.
 
Agreed 100% Also, I liked Burton's Gotham better than Nolan's. Gotham City is supposed to be almost as much a character as any flesh and blood character. It's supposed to dark and dirty and noir-ish and Burton nailed this. Nolan's Gotham could be any city.

Well, Burton went overboard on this in the second movie and Schumacher went waaayyyyyy over board on this in the third and fourth and in all fairness to Nolan; Begins' Gotham was very much more gothic and distinct looking in that movie and became much more "any city" in TDK.

A friend once told me that this film was so Joker centric that his girlfriend who didn't know anything about Batman thought that the Joker was supposed to be the hero based on how much they showed the Joker. I think that the limited appearances of Batman in his suit probably added to that impression.

You could make the same arguments for "TDK" which focused more on The Joker than it did on Batman/Bale in the suit.
 
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins (close second)
3. '89 Batman

The rest are bilge...unless you're counting the animated films then it's a different story.
 
I know there's the opening scene with the two robbers, but do you actually see him in that scene? I just saw it while channel flipping the other day and he seemed to be totally in shadow for that.

You see his face and he talks...tells the bad guy to tell everyone about him.

Hmm...now that I think about it, that scene shows that Burton's movie really WAS an origin story! It just skipped the first 45 minutes is all.

But, really, I guess it really is about Batman's first week on the job. I never really realized that about the '89 film before.
 
Keaton's Agent: "Mike! Good news! Some guy named Tim Burton called and he's interested in using you for his new movie!"

Keaton: "That's great! What's the part!"

KA: "Buddy, you're going to love this; you're going to be... Batman!"

K: "Batman?! Really?! Me?! Well, gosh, we better start a work-out program so I can start to look a bit more like a man who can kick the ass of criminals and swing through city-streets on a wire."

KA: "Nah, don't worry about any of that stuff they're just going to stick you in a rubber suit where you'll barely be able to move but there'll be muscle-looking ridges and formation on the suit to sell the look."

K: "Oh. Okay, hey, isn't Batman supposed to be a handsome bachelor millionaire or something."

KA: "Eh, don't worry about it. It'll work out."

K: "Awesome."

Adam West: "I feel a disturbance in the force."

:techman::bolian::lol:
 
I know there's the opening scene with the two robbers, but do you actually see him in that scene? I just saw it while channel flipping the other day and he seemed to be totally in shadow for that.

You see his face and he talks...tells the bad guy to tell everyone about him.

Hmm...now that I think about it, that scene shows that Burton's movie really WAS an origin story! It just skipped the first 45 minutes is all.

But, really, I guess it really is about Batman's first week on the job. I never really realized that about the '89 film before.

An origin story that didn't make you realize it WAS an origin story? Now that can't be good, can it...

RAMA
 
I prefer both Tim Burton's Batman and Leslie Martinson's Batman over both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.
 
An origin story that didn't make you realize it WAS an origin story? Now that can't be good, can it...

RAMA

It's actually brilliant.

Look, I agree with all your criticisms about the film. It's not all that great. But you can't hold this against it. I'd love to see more comic book movies done that way!
 
An origin story that didn't make you realize it WAS an origin story? Now that can't be good, can it...

RAMA

It's actually brilliant.

Look, I agree with all your criticisms about the film. It's not all that great. But you can't hold this against it. I'd love to see more comic book movies done that way!

Agreed. Too many superhero movies suffer from originitis, so that you end up sitting around forever before you actually get to see the Flash or the Rocketeer or whomever in action. It was actually quite brilliant to show us Batman right from the start, and give us his backstory later on.

Not to mention the sneaky misdirection where you think you're watching Batman's origin, but it turns out to be just a random family whom Batman rescues . . . .
 
Batman (1989) is not the worst Batman film. For that honor Batman Returns and Batman & Robin can duke it out for last place. Also, Batman (1989) may have been very good commercially to the franchise. However, it has some serious problems that bother the Batman lover in me.

The wiki says it pretty well, so to start with I'll quote from it.
Many observed that Burton was more interested in the Joker than Batman in terms of characterization and screentime.[1] Comic book fans reacted negatively over the Joker murdering Thomas and Martha Wayne; in the comic book, Joe Chill is responsible. Writer Sam Hamm, who is a comic book fan, said it was Burton's idea to have the Joker murder Wayne's parents. "The Writer's Strike was going on," Hamm said, "and Tim had the other writers do that. I also hold innocent to Alfred letting Vicki Vale into the Batcave. Fans were ticked off with that, and I agree. That would have been Alfred's last day of employment at Wayne Manor."[30]
Bingo. That passage right there describes much of what I find wrong with the film, and it's far from minor. To that, I would also add that Jack Nicholson seems to do a reprisal of Jack Torrance, but wearing white makeup. The ultimate fate of the Joker was also just plain irresponsible storytelling, completely undermining the characterization of the Joker as the arch-villain of Batman. (On the other hand, replacing Joe Chill with Jack Napier mischaracterizes the Joker's significance to Batman.)

Michael Keaton was probably miscast, but I actually bought his performance. No wisdom there, but no foul either. The film had beautiful cinematography, pretty darn good music, and great performances in supporting roles, especially from Pat Hingle as Commissioner Gordon and Michael Gough as Alfred.

Overall, Batman (1989) gets a mixed review from me (2/4).
 
I disagree, a build-up to a big and expected reveal can be more meaningful and powerful than throwing it out there right out of the gate. Look at, say, Jurassic Park where our first glimpse of a dinosaur comes after like 15 or 20 minutes or so of "build up" and we get the grand reveal of the brachiosaurus. Powerful, magical moment followed another 15 or so minutes later with the great battle with the T-Rex along the main road.

Just throwing them out there in the beginning would've ruined any suspense of seeing them it'd be like eating your dessert before dinner. What is there to look forward too?

Hell, I could make the same argument for the Superman movie (the 1979 one) where the "big reveal" of Superman comes after probably almost 30 minutes of story build up when Lois is in the crashing helicopter.

So showing Batman right away sort of ruins that ounce or two of suspense and I'd probably argue that the Nolan Batman movie wastes this opportunity as we're not given much of a "reveal" when it comes to Batman but his reveal is presented with an ounce or to of mysteriousness and enigma that the criminals of Gotham would have had. Infact, I'd say the Bale Batman reveal shadows the Keaton Batman reveal nicely, it's just built up better in BB.
 
Gotta disagree here. This is my favorite Batman movie. Gorgeous visuals, atmosphere, music.

I admire the new films, too, but they're almost a little too "realistic." To my mind, there's nothing in them to match, say, that great shot of the Joker's bleached hand rising from the green toxic waste, or the Batmobile racing through a shadowy forest with autumn leaves blowing in its wake.

That's pure pulp poetry!

Agreed. While there's certain aspects that are clearly dated now (the effects, those awful Prince songs), I think the way Burton was able to capture the pulpy, operatic, larger than life world of the original comics holds up perfectly.

His Batman truly feels like this dark, mysterious, almost supernatural figure when he's on screen-- unlike Nolan's, who always feels like just a guy wearing a bunch of advanced military gear to me.

That more realistic interpretation might be more in line with today's comics (which is probably why more fans prefer it), but personally I prefer the fun, pulpy 40s Batman Burton gave us instead.
 
I think the '89 Batman is one of those movies that is better remembered with childlike awe and best not be revisited.
 
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