Never thought of that aspect before. I was a first-run VOY fan and only watching TNG now for first time so that 'holo-addict' aspect never struck me first time watched it.
Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
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Never thought of that aspect before. I was a first-run VOY fan and only watching TNG now for first time so that 'holo-addict' aspect never struck me first time watched it.
Have you seen "Hollow Pursuits" yet?
Certainly have
But only recently. When first saw VOY hadn't so probably any holo-addict aspect went right over head. In some respects wish I was first time viewer so could watch all series/films in some sort of narrative continuity...
Speaking of "Hollow Pursuits," I just saw...
"Fair Haven"
This is hands down the worst episode of the season, possibly of the whole show. It's basically the "A Night in Sickbay" of Voyager. Meaningless B plot? Check. Sexually-frustrated captain? Check. Said captain suffers awful lapses in judgment? Check. Captain doesn't really become accountable for those lapses? Check.
For me at least, this episode literally made no sense. It was like watching something written by someone who'd never seen any of Star Trek and was just handed a show synopsis that said, "The captain's a woman, and she's been in space for 5 years. That's really the only characterization anyone gets. Sure, there's a cute Seven moment with the rings, but most of this episode wasn't really written in a way that was specific to the characters.
And having the captain create a HoloLoveSlave, particularly on the heels of a Barclay episode, is just ridiculous. Seriously, if Barclay had done that everyone would have given him a bunch of shit for it, and rightly so. Didn't we all groan when Kim fell in love on the holodeck? Janeway's better than that. She's just better than that.
And poor Chakotay. He sees her with Michael and he just wants to scream, "I built a bathtub for you. A bathtub!"
And what's the deal with Trek and Irish fantasy people? How come they're always pastoral or villagers, and happy. We never get the Ireland that James Joyce writes about. It's just kind of weird.
Like ANiS, I personally imagine this as taking place in some kind of alternate continuity, because it definitely doesn't square with the rest of the show I've been watching.
In fact, here's what I think: this is actually a flashback to one of the adventures of Soyager. This isn't the Voyager crew at all, it's the biomemetic clones. In an alternate universe.
"Fair Haven"
This is hands down the worst episode of the season, possibly of the whole show. It's basically the "A Night in Sickbay" of Voyager. Meaningless B plot? Check. Sexually-frustrated captain? Check. Said captain suffers awful lapses in judgment? Check. Captain doesn't really become accountable for those lapses? Check.
For me at least, this episode literally made no sense. It was like watching something written by someone who'd never seen any of Star Trek and was just handed a show synopsis that said, "The captain's a woman, and she's been in space for 5 years. That's really the only characterization anyone gets. Sure, there's a cute Seven moment with the rings, but most of this episode wasn't really written in a way that was specific to the characters.
And having the captain create a HoloLoveSlave, particularly on the heels of a Barclay episode, is just ridiculous. Seriously, if Barclay had done that everyone would have given him a bunch of shit for it, and rightly so. Didn't we all groan when Kim fell in love on the holodeck? Janeway's better than that. She's just better than that.
And poor Chakotay. He sees her with Michael and he just wants to scream, "I built a bathtub for you. A bathtub!"
And what's the deal with Trek and Irish fantasy people? How come they're always pastoral or villagers, and happy. We never get the Ireland that James Joyce writes about. It's just kind of weird.
Like ANiS, I personally imagine this as taking place in some kind of alternate continuity, because it definitely doesn't square with the rest of the show I've been watching.
In fact, here's what I think: this is actually a flashback to one of the adventures of Soyager. This isn't the Voyager crew at all, it's the biomemetic clones. In an alternate universe.
I love how she rolls her eyes as Chakotay walks away. I just say she feels guilty. It makes me feel better.
Fair Haven is not a favorite episode. I hate it. And Michael Sullivan is a creep.
I love how when the Doctor and Janeway are walking down the hall they try to lie to us and say that Captain's can't have relationships with their crew when that was disproven in TNG. Liars! I have issues with this episode obviously
Fair Haven is not a favorite episode. I hate it. And Michael Sullivan is a creep.
I love how when the Doctor and Janeway are walking down the hall they try to lie to us and say that Captain's can't have relationships with their crew when that was disproven in TNG. Liars! I have issues with this episode obviously
I can buy the whole situation happening. Loneliness happens, and sometimes we're not smart about matters of the heart. And a lot of the scenes, IMO, were kinda cute. This episode is nowhere near the "worst of" list in my own book.
The major problem with this episode, for me, is when the Doc gave Janeway some rather lousy advice and she freaking took it to heart. She was feeling rather torn about the whole thing, and rightfully so - and the Doc had to butt in and tell her it was okay! And, at the end - there was still a chance to back out. She could have called things off with Michael. She almost did! She was SO CLOSE. And then... then she said she'll be back. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I understand the character's reluctance to get involved with crew members on a tiny little ship in the middle of nowhere, but getting emotionally involved with a non-sentient program instead just... isn't healthy.
If you thought this one was a treat, just wait until "Spirit Folk" 
Do you think they had to make her emotionally involved because they couldn't choke down the idea that Janeway might just have a giant holo pattern enhancer named Michael? He couldn't just be about sexual release because that's too daring for a woman. She has to be emotionally invested.
Froot and I have opposite feelings about these two episodes. I like Spirit Folk.
I like Spirit Folk.
You know, it's funny - Chakotay openly admitted to Janeway's face that he'd used holograms for that exact purpose and they giggled about it.
I wonder if they were scared to write the episode that way. I dunno. Janeway is the sort of person who tends to get emotionally involved, though, so I don't know if that would work with her character or not. She couldn't even stay completely impassive with Kashyk.
Froot and I have opposite feelings about these two episodes.
I forgot about that! Maybe he'll like it better than this one. 
Froot and I have opposite feelings about these two episodes.
Who knows.
I thought he'd like Future's End and he didn't. But that was way long ago.
You know, all this rolling around on the ground laughing is not good for my back.
All I can say is "Poor Chakotay."
So far, even after he built her a bathtub and promised to never know peace unless he was making her burden lighter, she's preferred:
1. Mark, her dud fiance in the Alpha Quadrant. Even after he got married, she fantasized that "the engagement was off"
2. Kashyk, who was, in fact playing her. Granted, she was playing him as well, but she was doing a really, really good job of it
3. A HoloPatternEnhancer
And there might be a few that I've missed, too.
So far, even after he built her a bathtub and promised to never know peace unless he was making her burden lighter, she's preferred:
1. Mark, her dud fiance in the Alpha Quadrant. Even after he got married, she fantasized that "the engagement was off"
2. Kashyk, who was, in fact playing her. Granted, she was playing him as well, but she was doing a really, really good job of it
3. A HoloPatternEnhancer
And there might be a few that I've missed, too.
No Shatnertage, that's really it. She had a very dry love life. There's actually only one more person left, but I won't say when.
I thought he'd like Future's End and he didn't. But that was way long ago.
Wow, that is one of our top movie night eps!
I think Picard had more. Maybe by one.
I'll say over at the HiJS thread so we don't clog Shatnertage's thread.
Picard only had Vash! Who left him for Q!
Picard only had Vash! Who left him for Q!
And then Vash left him and then Q went off to go mate with Janeway.
And there was:
Janice Manheim
Vash
Nella Darren
Beverly Crusher
That fake woman in that one episode
His friend Marla in Tapestry
OK, I took too long writing this and mair beat me to it. I forgot about Janice Manheim. and the fake woman, who I think is from the episode where Troi teaches one alien to eat chocolate and Worf beats the crap out of another, and he (the alien) loves it.
_________
Yeah, "Future's End" just didn't appeal to me. They could have made it much funnier or much more serious and complex, but instead they played it down the middle and it was kind of a dud.
By the Doctor's logic, Janeway could have tweaked his program a little to make him more her type, and she would have been justified. Nothing in the episode makes any sense to me.
IIRC, Picard got involved with:
1. Lwaxana Troi, whom he fantasized quite extensively about, if she's to be believed. I just love the "Jean Luc! Such thoughts!" line.
2. The forbidden gift bride in that episode whose name I forget.
3. Vash.
4. The piano-playing fellow officer in that episode about him hooking up with the piano-playing fellow officer.
5. In "Tapestry," a woman 30 yeas younger than him, though she thought he was 20.
6. In the same episode, he is in bed, presumably naked, with Q. So technically he slept with Q.
7. I don't even want to think about that one where he and Beverly's minds were linked.
Did I forget anyone?
And now I've got to head over to the other thread to see if congratulations are in order.
_________
Yeah, "Future's End" just didn't appeal to me. They could have made it much funnier or much more serious and complex, but instead they played it down the middle and it was kind of a dud.
By the Doctor's logic, Janeway could have tweaked his program a little to make him more her type, and she would have been justified. Nothing in the episode makes any sense to me.
IIRC, Picard got involved with:
1. Lwaxana Troi, whom he fantasized quite extensively about, if she's to be believed. I just love the "Jean Luc! Such thoughts!" line.
2. The forbidden gift bride in that episode whose name I forget.
3. Vash.
4. The piano-playing fellow officer in that episode about him hooking up with the piano-playing fellow officer.
5. In "Tapestry," a woman 30 yeas younger than him, though she thought he was 20.
6. In the same episode, he is in bed, presumably naked, with Q. So technically he slept with Q.
7. I don't even want to think about that one where he and Beverly's minds were linked.
Did I forget anyone?
And now I've got to head over to the other thread to see if congratulations are in order.
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