Wealth discrepancy and capitalism...

[farmkid]

My statements are based on data from the Census Bureau, where do you get your data?

Well this article also cite census data and it claims poverty is at a 15 year high.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/16/usa-economy-poverty-idUSN1617702920100916

I didn't argue there are fewer poor people today. I said that poor people don't generally stay poor.

Of all your statements, that's the only one you can support? The one that no one said otherwise and doesn't contradict anything I said? Frankly, that's also the one I didn't really care about because I already knew that.

 

[Davros]

My statements are based on data from the Census Bureau, where do you get your data?

Well this article also cite census data and it claims poverty is at a 15 year high.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/16/usa-economy-poverty-idUSN1617702920100916

I didn't argue there are fewer poor people today. I said that poor people don't generally stay poor.

Sorry but I interpreted this post of yours as indicating a belief that there were less people in poverty than today.

I heard a report about the recent census data the other day. Something like 42% of the people who were below the poverty line 10 years ago are no longer living in poverty. That's amazing. 42% of the poor have left the ranks of the poor in just 10 years. Of course, other who weren't below the poverty level are now. These numbers are not extraordinarily, either.

Of all your statements, that's the only one you can support?

No, it's just the one of many articles brought up by a simple google search.

The one that no one said otherwise and doesn't contradict anything I said? Frankly, that's also the one I didn't really care about because I already knew that.

Except the quote I already mentioned above.

This article has some interesting bits on US social mobility compared to other nations. As seen in the 2 links following.
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/paul-de-grauwe-.html

http://economistsview.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/01/eurus37107.gif

http://economistsview.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/01/eurus47107.gif

 

[SPOCKED]

Bless you, American capitalism!!! When unencumbered you work miracles. May you produce many, many legions of job creating and charity donating millionaires and billionaires for centuries to come

 

[Davros]

Capitalism is a lot like fire.
It is very useful, and very powerful, but very dangerous if left unrestrained and not the best solution to all problems.

 

[KJbushway]

Capitalism a love story.
by Michael Moore

 

[LitmusDragon]

To become rich in America you have to be born rich. Either that or be incredibly lucky. I would be interested to see a statistic of the rich people in the population that were born as lower or middle class. I'll bet that number is incredibly small. Like 1/1000th of the most gifted of that segment of the population. I knew a lot of smart people growing up and all of them are basically at the same economic bracket they were born into today.

The poor and middle classes in this country can expect a continual decline in their quality of life as the "haves" have all of the influence and will continue to do what people do- seek more for themselves and less for everybody else.

I have no idea what the solution is, I'm not an economist- but when I see a rich imbecile it makes me want to stab a Charlie Sheen. Metaphorically speaking of course.

I certainly think equal tax percentages at all income brackets is a good place to start. The fact that tax breaks for the rich was ever an actual passed law is just preposterous.

 

[KJbushway]

I actaully hadn't known that the doctor who made to Polio vaccine didn't sell it, just gave it away for free. We need more people like this, not the greedy ass wallstreet CEOs who only care about luxury private jets. American Middle class is what runs this country, no other way. It's just the white collar that take it away and us it for themselves.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

It is important to make a distinction between wealth and income or money. Wealth means owning the means of production and in a capitalist system your always going to have a concentration of wealth. One guy owns the factory and employs a hundred people. That wealth is concentrated in that one guy. That doesn't say anything about the income level of his employees though. It is common to hear that because wealth is getting more concentrated that means the larger percentage is worse off, but that simply isn't true.

To become rich in America you have to be born rich. Either that or be incredibly lucky. I would be interested to see a statistic of the rich people in the population that were born as lower or middle class. I'll bet that number is incredibly small. Like 1/1000th of the most gifted of that segment of the population. I knew a lot of smart people growing up and all of them are basically at the same economic bracket they were born into today.

Actually the opposite is true

http://sportdaynews.com/todd/ector622610ater/

 

[KJbushway]

I happen to think you control your own life. If you want to be better off there is many of ways to do so. You can invent something, they have the shake-weight, apparently it isn't that hard. You can get an education in a field that pays well. You want to reach for the stars start building a rocket(I don't mean literally).

 

[Holdfast]

It is important to make a distinction between wealth and income...

This is a hugely important distinction, but people dislike thinking about it because the implications are disturbing to many. The idea that you can earn, say, $150k pa and still be poor is disconcerting to some but lots of people in that income level have pretty low net asset values in the grand scheme of things.

Interestingly, most corporations run on this model of high income but minimising actual wealth (think about the way the stock market works in terms of stock price to underlying value). It's OK for them to use this model, because their purpose is not to be wealthy, but to deliver value and wealth for their owners (the shareholders).

But once you extrapolate this principle to individuals, you quickly realise that the purpose of most people in a capitalist economy is not to be wealthy, but merely to be rewarded by a variable, if occasionally high, income level. And in the process, deliver value and wealth for their "owners".

But high income levels on their own are fairly meaningless for quality of life without wealth, unless they're high enough to deliver wealth. And you need at least high six-figure salaries for an extended period of time to deliver actual wealth. People don't like the idea that a moderately high income level doesn't give you financial freedom. You have luxury at this level, but not freedom. They're just gilded chains.

A mil in the bank does very little for your financial freedom if you want a good lifestyle. 2 mil makes a difference, enough to deliver a free (but rather modest) lifestyle. You need more than 5-10 mil to have both freedom and generous luxury. Freedom and world class luxury requires hundreds of millions.

"... the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it."

I happen to think you control your own life.

One thing you'll hopefully learn with a bit more experience is that this is absolutely true, but absolutely not in the way you currently believe. Good luck.

 

[KJbushway]

^ Those were just examples. I acutally believe is controlling my life in a different way. I dream future, but I plan for today. I know that life throws loop holes and that its best to work your way around the first few and plan for the next the best you can.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I actaully hadn't known that the doctor who made to Polio vaccine didn't sell it, just gave it away for free. We need more people like this, not the greedy ass wallstreet CEOs who only care about luxury private jets. American Middle class is what runs this country, no other way. It's just the white collar that take it away and us it for themselves.

But why do you care about other people who have the money to buy private jets? Is it because you want a private jet? I bet you don't actually want one, or a lot of the other stuff people spend their money on.

It seems a lot of people stress over the struggle to buy luxuries and a better lifestyle. This is completely different than struggling to eat or not get your electricity cut off or to make your rent that month.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

The point that most people seem to miss when talking about any form of large-scale economy, is that people are at the base level interested in winning. Having more sex with sexier partners, eating more food that tastes better, having a marble bathtub and the softest pillow to rest their swollen ego on. If everybody in the country was given $100,000 to do whatever they wanted, I seriously doubt that more than a very small handful would actually give it all away.

Some people happen to be smarter or meaner or just plain luckier than others. That is the reason that some people are very powerful and have everything, while others die before they are born, and everything in between. It's pretty much going to be that way any way you see it, under any system of government.

 

[KJbushway]

^ no I just want to buy a long single floor house, with an in-ground pool(that I would love to dig by myself-seriously I am not kinding on this) and two of those big huge metal barns so that I can secretly build an Ironman suit and use it to do good. I will also create advanced technologies and build a space shuttle, that will have warp,shields,AG,weapons,cloak. Then I will go to mars, build a dry dock run by robots that will take minerals and metals from the asteriod belt to build 3 star ships.
Thats the life right there.
I have a problem when the rich take bailout money and buy a new luxury jet, instead of getting employees benefits. IF its their own hard worked money, go ahead but don't take tax payers money to buy yourself a toy.
I plan to grow my own food
Filter my own water
Just look at my green ideas-green Ideals threads.
I want to save money becuase I know first hand how important it is.

 

[infinix]

But why do you care about other people who have the money to buy private jets? Is it because you want a private jet? I bet you don't actually want one, or a lot of the other stuff people spend their money on.

It seems a lot of people stress over the struggle to buy luxuries and a better lifestyle. This is completely different than struggling to eat or not get your electricity cut off or to make your rent that month.

Yes, not everyone wants private jets or 60 ft yachts or a penthouse over looking central park. But everyone wants not to have to worry money. Everyone has a different threshold of when they would stop worrying about money, but I'm pretty sure a person living from paycheck to paycheck is worried about money.

^ no I just want to buy a long single floor house, with an in-ground pool(that I would love to dig by myself-seriously I am not kinding on this) and two of those big huge metal barns so that I can secretly build an Ironman suit and use it to do good. I will also create advanced technologies and build a space shuttle, that will have warp,shields,AG,weapons,cloak. Then I will go to mars, build a dry dock run by robots that will take minerals and metals from the asteriod belt to build 3 star ships.
Thats the life right there.
I have a problem when the rich take bailout money and buy a new luxury jet, instead of getting employees benefits. IF its their own hard worked money, go ahead but don't take tax payers money to buy yourself a toy.
I plan to grow my own food
Filter my own water
Just look at my green ideas-green Ideals threads.
I want to save money becuase I know first hand how important it is.

I don't think you are taking this discussion seriously, KJ.

 

[KJbushway]

^ No I am. Really I do wish to live the easy life. I do want that single floor house. And I am going to save money by filtering my own water, growing my own food. However, I don't like when the middle class is fucked over by the top 2%. Who, yes bring in business and put america to work, but some turn out to completely take the middle class for granted. I watched Capitalism A love story and just felt ashamed of my own country.

Did you catch the ending of my long post.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But why do you care about other people who have the money to buy private jets? Is it because you want a private jet? I bet you don't actually want one, or a lot of the other stuff people spend their money on.

It seems a lot of people stress over the struggle to buy luxuries and a better lifestyle. This is completely different than struggling to eat or not get your electricity cut off or to make your rent that month.

Yes, not everyone wants private jets or 60 ft yachts or a penthouse over looking central park. But everyone wants not to have to worry money. Everyone has a different threshold of when they would stop worrying about money, but I'm pretty sure a person living from paycheck to paycheck is worried about money.

Of course they would worry about money, living paycheck to paycheck. I just don't personally understand why people resent the uber rich.

^ No I am. Really I do wish to live the easy life. I do want that single floor house. And I am going to save money by filtering my own water, growing my own food. However, I don't like when the middle class is fucked over by the top 2%. Who, yes bring in business and put america to work, but some turn out to completely take the middle class for granted. I watched Capitalism A love story and just felt ashamed of my own country.

How are you personally being fucked over by the top 2%?

Also I must ask how filtering your own water saves you money?

 

[KJbushway]

But why do you care about other people who have the money to buy private jets? Is it because you want a private jet? I bet you don't actually want one, or a lot of the other stuff people spend their money on.

It seems a lot of people stress over the struggle to buy luxuries and a better lifestyle. This is completely different than struggling to eat or not get your electricity cut off or to make your rent that month.

Yes, not everyone wants private jets or 60 ft yachts or a penthouse over looking central park. But everyone wants not to have to worry money. Everyone has a different threshold of when they would stop worrying about money, but I'm pretty sure a person living from paycheck to paycheck is worried about money.

Of course they would worry about money, living paycheck to paycheck. I just don't personally understand why people resent the uber rich.

^ No I am. Really I do wish to live the easy life. I do want that single floor house. And I am going to save money by filtering my own water, growing my own food. However, I don't like when the middle class is fucked over by the top 2%. Who, yes bring in business and put america to work, but some turn out to completely take the middle class for granted. I watched Capitalism A love story and just felt ashamed of my own country.

How are you personally being fucked over by the top 2%?

Also I must ask how filtering your own water saves you money?

I am not. However, my family are the ones you talk about that live paycheck to paycheck. Watch Michael Moore's movie, you'd get a little snippy as well.

I should have got into that filter my own water better. If I can some how collect enough water, I can re-use it. I can limit my water bill by re-using the water I have already taken in and or collected. Does that clear it up a little?
Also not buying cases of bottle water or jugs of water, becuase I have read about the stuff they find in our water supply. Not user friendly. I want clean water.

 

[JarodRussell]

Interesting thing about wealth discrepancy... can there actually even BE a world where everybody is wealthy? Wealth seems to be unfairly distributed in this day and age. But is there actually enough wealth for really everybody?

 

[Holdfast]

... How are you personally being fucked over by the top 2%?

Can't you read? They stopped him building his Iron Man suit, and his space shuttle. Honestly, you should keep up.

I plan to grow my own food
Filter my own water

Is this about to segue into a "drink own piss" meme?