TMP Seems more "Futuristic" Then "Star Trek '09"

[Maurice]

...That and the fact that only once in the whole bloody film did the characters appear to be getting any specific information from one of them - when V'Ger's the hexagonal aperture was closing - and what you have was a Fail in 1979 and a dated Fail now.

There's also the readout that shows the binary code Spock refers to, and the stuff on Chekov's targeting display.

Does the bug in the warp formula count too? (On the display maybe written in Vulcan?)

According to Lee Cole they shot a number of film loops for the bridge displays to illustrate plot points, but as few of them are singled out it's difficult to separate them from the mass of generic displays. For instance, when the ship gets grabbed by V'ger's tractor beam the display on the far left of Spock's console changes to show something moving, which I suspect is the tractor beam readout.

Photoic Sonar
Before the tractor beam
Tractor beam on
Just before "Tractor beam has released us".

Warp formula appears on overhead once Spock takes his station
Before
After

also...

Binary code

 

[Anduril]

If it's going to be the USS Light Bright, then extend that design sense to the engine room as well.

Though, to be honest, what engine room is really that refined on a ship? Or even a plane? Usually everything is aesthetically pleasing until you reach the engine room/cargo bays.

I can see the direction of where you're coming from. The rough, pipe weaving, tubes everywhere seems very crude in retrospect to the design of the entire ship.

Note how the corridors lead into the "tubes" in the scene before the space jump. The design makes perfect sense to me. The nice, clean corridors lead to the "guts" of the ship.

 

[Navigator_NCC2120]

...That and the fact that only once in the whole bloody film did the characters appear to be getting any specific information from one of them - when V'Ger's the hexagonal aperture was closing - and what you have was a Fail in 1979 and a dated Fail now.

There's also the readout that shows the binary code Spock refers to, and the stuff on Chekov's targeting display.

Also, the parabola and its directrix on one of the Science Station monitors when Kirk orders a conic section flight path (to swing around the intruder and follow it back to Earth) in the theatrical version of TMP and the extened version.

Here is a picture of it, courtesy of trekcore.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\

 

[Warped9]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

sometimes what seems futuristic too.

I still think TMP looks better than most of what has come along since.

 

[scotpens]

Which brings us to Star Trek (2009). The bridge looks like an Apple store...

A complaint made by people who are only looking to complain, as far as I can tell. Unless we're assuming Apple invented rooms with white walls and computers.

Maybe not like an Apple store, but the Trek ’09 bridge looks more like a trendy boutique than the nerve center of a quasi-military space vessel.

Though, to be honest, what engine room is really that refined on a ship? Or even a plane?

Uh, airplanes don’t have engine rooms.

Usually everything is aesthetically pleasing until you reach the engine room/cargo bays.

The control and crew spaces on present-day naval vessels are pretty cramped and cluttered.

. . . The point I am trying to make is that, sometimes, perhaps what is thought of as "futuristic" is really too exaggerated or too one-track actually to be practical in the real future.

Which is why the TOS bridge, with its logical layout, simple shapes, and ergonomic control panels, is still a practical and believable design — jelly-bean buttons and all.

 

[Merky]

Uh, airplanes don’t have engine rooms.

No shit? But they do have cargo bays - majority 4ft crawl spaces and some which are large enough for a person to walk, albeit uncomfortably, in. The landing gears have panels that open up wide enough for MX crews to get inside work inside plane, they're also large enough inside to climb into. I am a former ramp agent and flight attendant... so yeah... I know what I was talking about with the reference.

The idea is: Aesthetically pleasing cabin/cockpit/galley in contrast to cold metal, wires, nets, etc of cargo bays and engine panels of planes. The pretty design doesn't carry throughout because it is not feasible for it to do so.

The control and crew spaces on present-day naval vessels are pretty cramped and cluttered.

Not a cruise ship which would be more applicable to this ship design than an actual naval vessel.

 

[Xelo]

I'm a big fan of both films. That said, TMP looks more '70s than 23rd century. I kept waiting for the disco ball to start spinning on the bridge ...

Especially when McCoy shows up for the first time.

 

[ShatnersToupee]

There is no way Meyer makes The Wrath of Khan for eleven million dollars without those sets/models already being in place. Or that Nimoy makes The Search for Spock for sixteen million.

Even if you had more money, why would you trash film quality sets? They were only a few years old and were designed for the big screen. They'd have just been wasting money.

It would be interesting if someone could ballpark a production budget for The Wrath of Khan if they had started from scratch.

Plus reusing those sets/models gave the films a sense of visual continuity.

According to William Shatner, they would destroy those sets after every movie and then recreate them whenever they made a new movie. Sure it's wasteful. It's not like a TV series where you plan to keep the sets for a few years. And keep in mind, with TMP they weren't thinking about sequels. Over time, it became too expensive to keep rebuilding sets, which is why ST VI simply redressed a lot of TNG sets.

 

[Maurice]

According to William Shatner, they would destroy those sets after every movie and then recreate them whenever they made a new movie. Sure it's wasteful. It's not like a TV series where you plan to keep the sets for a few years. And keep in mind, with TMP they weren't thinking about sequels. Over time, it became too expensive to keep rebuilding sets, which is why ST VI simply redressed a lot of TNG sets.

That's baloney. The main TMP sets stood through Star Trek IV, and were "lost" only when they were repurposed for TNG. They didn't tear them down and rebuild them for every movie.

 

[Merky]

I think the better word would be to " cannibalize " the sets to recreate " new " things from them. Because I believe I read that the TMP sets/props were cannibalized to create the STII - IV sets.

 

[Vance]

Blade Runner is probably more futuristic than most, but I have my doubts about it as well.

So in 2019 everyone's gonna have a mohawk wearing 1940s inspired clothes or be Chinese...

OK..

1940s clothes and styles were awesome. I've never met a woman that didn't like a man in a 1940s suit and hat combo. And I've never seen fashion that was more flattering and understated than that era's for women, either. It's not at all ridiculous to think that such functional lines wouldn't 'come back', particularly among the rich 'professional' elite. It's not like OTHER fashion trends haven't recycled. (And Blade Runner had MANY looks in it, part of its charm.)

As for the majority of people being Chinese... well... they haven't quite hit a majority yet... but have you been to LA?

 

[Vance]

That's baloney. The main TMP sets stood through Star Trek IV, and were "lost" only when they were repurposed for TNG. They didn't tear them down and rebuild them for every movie.

They were rebuilt out of what was left of the sets from the previous iteration. The TWOK sets, for example, were salvaged from TMP but large sections were rebuilt, everything was at least repainted (not once, but twice), etc. TSFS was able to reuse the bridge set and cooridor largely intact.

ST:IV had the infamous fire which required rebuilding sets out of what was left for both the HMS Bounty and the Enterprise bridge. After that, most of what was left was completely rebuild from the scraps to be TNG sets, which would then be redressed as needed for ST:V and ST:VI. Those sets would then see further redressing and rebuilding for the remaining TV series as well as the first few TNG films.

It's not accurate to say that the sets were built from scratch with each iteration of Trek. But it's not fair to say that (with the exception of ST:III) they were just 're-used' as if all they did was plop'em'down and start shooting. The sets were not stored in a way that encouraged reuse until TNG was in production. For the most part they were treated like any other Hollywood set or prop.

 

[Merky]

Blade Runner is probably more futuristic than most, but I have my doubts about it as well.

So in 2019 everyone's gonna have a mohawk wearing 1940s inspired clothes or be Chinese...

OK..

1940s clothes and styles were awesome. I've never met a woman that didn't like a man in a 1940s suit and hat combo. And I've never seen fashion that was more flattering and understated than that era's for women, either. It's not at all ridiculous to think that such functional lines wouldn't 'come back', particularly among the rich 'professional' elite. It's not like OTHER fashion trends haven't recycled. (And Blade Runner had MANY looks in it, part of its charm.)

As for the majority of people being Chinese... well... they haven't quite hit a majority yet... but have you been to LA?

That's like saying Latinos haven't hit the majority yet but have you been to Miami?

 

[JarodRussell]

I watched TMP awhile back ago and realized I think this movie lookes more "futuristic" then the latest Star Trek remake by Abrams. Yes, they are both different movies, Star Trek had more action in it and a lot of cool new designs, but for some reason after watching TMP it seemed to lack the "futuristic" aptitude. The Enterprise re-fit in TMP had a better engine room, and a neat room that you played games in. Each part of the ship just looked like it was made to be in the future... V'Ger looked more threatening then the Romulan ship did... I don't know, is there something wrong with me?

I think TMP's look is timeless. You can watch it in 20 years and it will still be futuristic. nuTrek will look quite dated in a couple of years.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

There's also a difference between when a production company "destroys" and "strikes" a set. And the bridge from TMP looks as though it was used as the battle bridge in TNG.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

1940s clothes and styles were awesome. I've never met a woman that didn't like a man in a 1940s suit and hat combo. And I've never seen fashion that was more flattering and understated than that era's for women, either. It's not at all ridiculous to think that such functional lines wouldn't 'come back', particularly among the rich 'professional' elite. It's not like OTHER fashion trends haven't recycled. (And Blade Runner had MANY looks in it, part of its charm.)

Actually, the GEICO guy looks like he's wearing a semi-modern version of that 40's detective look.

 

[Vance]

That's like saying Latinos haven't hit the majority yet but have you been to Miami?

Blade Runner takes place in LA.

 

[Maurice]

That's baloney. The main TMP sets stood through Star Trek IV, and were "lost" only when they were repurposed for TNG. They didn't tear them down and rebuild them for every movie.

They were rebuilt out of what was left of the sets from the previous iteration. The TWOK sets, for example, were salvaged from TMP but large sections were rebuilt, everything was at least repainted (not once, but twice), etc. TSFS was able to reuse the bridge set and cooridor largely intact.

ST:IV had the infamous fire which required rebuilding sets out of what was left for both the HMS Bounty and the Enterprise bridge. After that, most of what was left was completely rebuild from the scraps to be TNG sets, which would then be redressed as needed for ST:V and ST:VI. Those sets would then see further redressing and rebuilding for the remaining TV series as well as the first few TNG films.

It's not accurate to say that the sets were built from scratch with each iteration of Trek. But it's not fair to say that (with the exception of ST:III) they were just 're-used' as if all they did was plop'em'down and start shooting. The sets were not stored in a way that encouraged reuse until TNG was in production. For the most part they were treated like any other Hollywood set or prop.

I don't think that's entirely accurate, either. A big deal was made that the TNG sets were built as they were because the rigging/catwalks were already in place for the movie sets. If the soundstage were being used for other purposed, why would they keep all the rigging in place? If these were moved to the scene dock, you wouldn't have to reassemble them in the exact same locations on the stage.

 

[Vance]

I don't think that's entirely accurate, either. A big deal was made that the TNG sets were built as they were because the rigging/catwalks were already in place for the movie sets. If the soundstage were being used for other purposed, why would they keep all the rigging in place? If these were moved to the scene dock, you wouldn't have to reassemble them in the exact same locations on the stage.

It was used for another purpose. It just happened to be another Star Trek purpose at the time. TNG 'cannibalized' the sets from ST:TFF, which had used cannibalized parts all the way back to Phase II production...

 

[Amaris]

I watched TMP awhile back ago and realized I think this movie lookes more "futuristic" then the latest Star Trek remake by Abrams. Yes, they are both different movies, Star Trek had more action in it and a lot of cool new designs, but for some reason after watching TMP it seemed to lack the "futuristic" aptitude. The Enterprise re-fit in TMP had a better engine room, and a neat room that you played games in. Each part of the ship just looked like it was made to be in the future... V'Ger looked more threatening then the Romulan ship did... I don't know, is there something wrong with me?

I think TMP's look is timeless. You can watch it in 20 years and it will still be futuristic. nuTrek will look quite dated in a couple of years.

You're right. That whole red, blue, gold uniform thing. No one's going to like that in a few years. Now TOS, they did it right, with that red, blue gold uniform thing. Timeless.