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Like it or not, Trek XI made an impact

While I didnt like the new film, I will admit that it did pick up new fans and made an impact. I also think it pleased many old fans purely for the fact that they were starving for new Trek. I think Alternate Reality Trek will last 3 films tops. By than the actors will either want to move on or the general audience will be bored with it. Plus the hardcore fans will scrutinize and not forgive the next installment much more than the first one.
 
This makes me happy. A whole lot happier than my adult friends who saw it and want to argue with me about why there is sound in space :scream:

Haha, that would be tough to take!

While I didnt like the new film, I will admit that it did pick up new fans and made an impact. I also think it pleased many old fans purely for the fact that they were starving for new Trek. I think Alternate Reality Trek will last 3 films tops. By than the actors will either want to move on or the general audience will be bored with it. Plus the hardcore fans will scrutinize and not forgive the next installment much more than the first one.

Dar, I think you make an interesting point. One downside to Trek getting the blockbuster treatment is that it is highly subject to the whims and fancies of the movie business, something even more unpredictable and mercurial than the TV business, I think. My fear is that by, say, 2015, we'll be seeing reboots of the reboot!
 
Most people are fans of whatever is in front of their face at the time. Only a small minority bother to stay interested in something when they are not being constantly prodded to remain fans by new material.

That's why the notion of "building appetite for Star Trek" by not producing any is bunk. That's the way for Star Trek to be forgotten.

Ideally, Star Trek needs a TV series in production as well as movies coming out every 2-3 years. Even if it must be a cartoon series like The Clone Wars.

Good old George Lucas, he may suck at writing, directing and casting, but he knows how to maintain a successful franchise from a business viewpoint. Shove something out there, all the time, if only so that you can sell more toys. The fans are whoever is giving you money right now; others don't matter. Too bad with the film and TV rights split between two entities, there's no such coherent strategy for Star Trek.

So what? If the movie's fun, I can live with a nunuKirk and co.

And it's worth reminding everyone that the whole thing could have been wretched, especially if they'd mucked up the casting of key characters. Spock in particular is a character I'd never have guessed could be recast. Trek XI could have been, well maybe not as bad as the Star Wars prequels, but close.

One downside to Trek getting the blockbuster treatment is that it is highly subject to the whims and fancies of the movie business, something even more unpredictable and mercurial than the TV business,

Neither business is subject to "whims and fancies" any more than others would be - dog food, toothpaste, etc. Both have overriding aspects of their status quo, that are very difficult to buck, and long-term trends.

For movies, it's that sci fi in space is highly successful, and must involve action and explosions. The long-term trend is more of the same. For Star Trek, that means that future movies will be like Trek XI: whatever intelligence and character growth happens, it will be shoehorned between explosions and it won't be anything like what TV could do.

For TV, it's that sci fi in space is highly unsuccessful so that nobody wants to do it, and the long term trend is towards more niche programming on cable aimed at highly specific tastes, with the remaining broadcast audience being served by very very mainstream stuff. Sci fi can barely survive on broadcast; forget about space based sci fi. For Star Trek, and leaving aside the disconnect between Paramout and CBS, this means that the only slim hope is Showtime, if they decide to take a risk on a space based show of any sort. But if they did, it could be an awesome show.
 
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Yep. I have two friends who became Trek fans after seeing the latest movie. I've introduced them to the Original Series and the movies, and they eat it up. I love it, because it brings back the joy of a good Star Trek movie. When I was up in Chicago last year for the convention, I met a lot of new Trek fans who got their start with Trek XI. I am glad it did so much to rejuvenate Trek for so many!
 
Neither business is subject to "whims and fancies" any more than others would be - dog food, toothpaste, etc. Both have overriding aspects of their status quo, that are very difficult to buck, and long-term trends.

For movies, it's that sci fi in space is highly successful, and must involve action and explosions. The long-term trend is more of the same. For Star Trek, that means that future movies will be like Trek XI: whatever intelligence and character growth happens, it will be shoehorned between explosions and it won't be anything like what TV could do.

For TV, it's that sci fi in space is highly unsuccessful so that nobody wants to do it, and the long term trend is towards more niche programming on cable aimed at highly specific tastes, with the remaining broadcast audience being served by very very mainstream stuff. Sci fi can barely survive on broadcast; forget about space based sci fi. For Star Trek, and leaving aside the disconnect between Paramout and CBS, this means that the only slim hope is Showtime, if they decide to take a risk on a space based show of any sort. But if they did, it could be an awesome show.

Right, this makes a lot of sense. When I said "whims and fancies" I was really referring to what a previous poster said: actors can lose interest and want to move or simply that scheduling can become challenging, writers/directors etc. can change based on studio politics and whatnot and so on. The latest iteration of the franchise caught lightning in a bottle in many ways (the cast, the writers who were/are a hot commodity at the time, Abrams) and it doesn't take a lot to upset the balance and have a franchise go off the rails.
 
Star Trek needs a TV series in production as well as movies coming out every 2-3 years.

Seem to recall them trying that already. Results were less than impressive.

The results varied from the sublime to the ridiculous. :rommie: But I'd take even Threshold and TATV over no Trek on TV at all. And I persist in believing there's a way to make Star Trek both creatively and financially successful on TV. New people would be in charge, so past failures wouldn't be an indication of future failure. They might find all new ways to fail, but I'd like to see them try.

The latest iteration of the franchise caught lightning in a bottle in many ways (the cast, the writers who were/are a hot commodity at the time, Abrams) and it doesn't take a lot to upset the balance and have a franchise go off the rails.
I think the success was a lot more calculated than that - the movie succeeded because a lot of thought and effort was put into doing successful things with it. The biggest stroke of luck was Zachary Quinto: to have someone available who was so perfect for a key character who was also the hardest to recast was just astounding. Mostly, the others were good in their roles but not so much that I can't imagine other actors being cast and doing just as well.
 
With the exception of First Contact, having TV series' concurrent to the movies has been harmful. People won't pay money to see something they get for free on TV every week. STV was hurt by the debut of TNG. STVI barely scraped by. Voyager-era Insurrection disappointed at the box office. Nemesis was killed by the concurrent and extremely unpopular Enterprise series. Even Terminator Sally was hurt by The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

A kids' cartoon can co-exist just fine with a movie franchise (something along the lines of Iron Man rather than Star Wars). A TV series can't - and it would be a bigger risk to take now that more money's at stake in said movies than ever before.
 
With the exception of First Contact, having TV series' concurrent to the movies has been harmful. People won't pay money to see something they get for free on TV every week. STV was hurt by the debut of TNG. STVI barely scraped by. Voyager-era Insurrection disappointed at the box office. Nemesis was killed by the concurrent and extremely unpopular Enterprise series. Even Terminator Sally was hurt by The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Can't prove that. STV was a bad movie with many flaws, TNG has nothing to do with that. STVI didn't barely scrape by. The Search for Spock made 76 million, Undiscovered Country made 74 million.

Why would a Voyager series hurt a TNG movie? Same for Nemesis?

Terminator Salvation is like TFF. It has many, many flaws, no Schwarzenegger, etc... I have read a lot of criticism about TS, but I have never read anything about TSCC in that context.
 
With the exception of First Contact, having TV series' concurrent to the movies has been harmful. People won't pay money to see something they get for free on TV every week. STV was hurt by the debut of TNG. STVI barely scraped by. Voyager-era Insurrection disappointed at the box office. Nemesis was killed by the concurrent and extremely unpopular Enterprise series. Even Terminator Sally was hurt by The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

A kids' cartoon can co-exist just fine with a movie franchise (something along the lines of Iron Man rather than Star Wars). A TV series can't - and it would be a bigger risk to take now that more money's at stake in said movies than ever before.

That has nothing to do with it. They were simply bad movies that were slammed by the critics and movie-goers. ST V was just a terrible movie all around with a plotline that went no where and a climax that left you not giving a single damn once they got there. No matter how great the sprinkled in comedy was, ST V ended up becoming an unintentional comedy throughout the film. If anything, they should have learned their lessons from TMP. Stories like this do not work in a movie format. Maybe some fans liked it, but movies are made for the general audience and no one cares about Captain Kirk being Chuck Norris and finding God.

STVI did fairly well but it was riding off of the coat tails of an unsuccessful franchise killer. The fact that it pulled 74 mil domestically, 96 mil world wide speaks that the film was a success when you look that it was only made for little more than half of it's gross earnings. STVI, unlike STV, had a compelling story and great acting that made the movie enjoyable for the masses. It took where STV went wrong and made it a right by realizing one crucial thing: These actors are not in their 30s anymore. They're not action stars. Let's tackle that issue and not try to ignore it.

Also, that ideology really doesn't work when First Contact was successful with two Trek series being aired concurrently.

A movie is successful based on one thing: It's story. If the story doesn't resonate with the people, it will flop. It has nothing to do with how many spinoffs are on TV.
 
Why the hell would they want to take a potentially very big movie franchise and grind out TV shows while it's still working in theaters?
 
I don't think we can discount the effect that a TV show can have on a movie. Look at Smallville and Superman Returns. We'll never know if Smallville had a positive or negative effect on Returns. But imo Returns wasn't nearly as anticipated as it could have been because there was a TV show that had been already running for five or more years. And Superman Returns is targeting the same young people who already know what Smallville is and have likely watched at least one episode. Like what if we'd had a Batman TV series going on when Nolan's movie came out. Would it have been as successful? Who knows.
 
Daniel, Star Trek VI did reasonably well at the box office. ST:V was hurt by the production quality of the movie and was out before TNG debuted. Insurrection was a movie with a television-episode plot. Nemesis was awful by most standards. And, yes, the latest Terminator movie was just not good.

People can, and do, find the time to watch good TV and good movies. The problem wasn't that there was 'too much Trek'. The problem was that there was too much bad Trek. At the end of the day, if you're trying to sell huge amounts of crap, don't be surprised if the only people buying are those that WANT manure.
 
With the exception of First Contact, having TV series' concurrent to the movies has been harmful. People won't pay money to see something they get for free on TV every week.
People will pay for what they like.
STV was hurt by the debut of TNG.
TFF was hurt by a poor marketing campaign, bad writing, bad directing, lack of interesting plot... the list goes on. TNG's debut AFTER TFF did not interfere with its success.
STVI barely scraped by.
TUC actually did better than you assume.
Voyager-era Insurrection disappointed at the box office.
People disappointed people with its television episode quality at a theater price.
Nemesis was killed by the concurrent and extremely unpopular Enterprise series.
NEM was killed by itself. The quality was terrible, the acting mediocre, the script was atrocious. ENT had its own issues, which were also unrelated to NEM.

Your opinion may differ, but your reasoning is flawed.
 
^ Agreed, except I still think the cinematography for ST:INS was gorgeous.
 
Ok, I got my facts wrong - I admit it and apologize. But I do think having a TV series concurrent to a film franchise is a bad idea.
 
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