Stargate: Universe is what Voyager should've been like

[Guy Gardener]

Susperia turned up to collect Naomi who was really Caretakers child, and in return for handing over the Wildman girl, Janeway would be taken home.

Janeway's choice, use the kid as currency, practically "fuel" if you want to draw a comparison with another Starship captain or bitchslap Susperia and continue plodding on with their remaining 30 years but maintain the moral highground.

The closest note I ever saw that the final episodes leading up to Endgame had a hint of any progress was that the Doctor were talking about Voyager in Renaissance Man approaching the boarder to the Beta quadrant (still years away but it's on the horizon).

 

[Anwar]

I'd rather they spend most of the series in the same (huge) area of space inhabited by the Kazon, Vidiians, Hirogen, Krenim and Malon. They'd help them all in fending off Borg and 8472 invasions, then in the end it would turn out the Female Caretaker was observing them all and sends them home as a reward, or creates a wormhole so they can go home but return whenever they want.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Reward" doesn't do it for me.

Kirk Killed gods.

Sisko became one.

Being gifted everything you need makes you to be some sort of herd animal.

Now, if Janeway was to "trick" or "outwit" Susperia, that would prove the indomitably of the human spirit.

 

[Anwar]

Well fine, they kill her and as a dying fit to her "valiant foe" she makes a wormhole that they can use to go and come as they please. Or they just use her Array to make a wormhole after she vacates it because they killed her/defeated her somehow.

In Farscape, John was given everything by the Ancients when it came to wormholes and no one complained that he didn't "earn it"...

 

[The Overlord]

SG-1 wasn't about an all-out war, and when they did have it most of the time it was the other aliens doing the fighting.

But if you want to be that way, it still supports my point: Wanting folks to die on VOY when their situation wasn't as bad as other shows who didn't kill off THEIR characters just shows unfair bias.

Voyager didn't have kill off hordes of characters to show their situation was desperate, but they had to something to show how being stranded from home would make for a desperate situation. The lack of resources should have been highlighted more, they shouldn't have had power for Holodeck, they shouldn't lose shuttles all the time, because their limited resources mean they couldn't make more at that point in time and when Voyager is damaged, it should still be damaged in the next episode. That's what was needed.

 

[Kaziarl]

But he did have to "earn it." Right up till the point where his Father/Ancient needed his help to build a wormhole weapon, he didn't have any conscious access to the information. It would "guide" him on the right path, but he didn't have a cheat sheet.

 

[Anwar]

Hardly, Crichton's wormhole experiments were nothing but background plot that only went somewhere when Jack the Ancient simply unlocked the information hidden in his brain. The only two times the wormhole information was really vital to the plot was when he used it to destroy that Scarran battleship and when he used it to make a black hole to force a surrender from the Peacekeepers and Scarrans. Both times he had the information unlocked by an Ancient.

His own attempts without having it unlocked never went anywhere.

 

[Anwar]

SG-1 wasn't about an all-out war, and when they did have it most of the time it was the other aliens doing the fighting.

But if you want to be that way, it still supports my point: Wanting folks to die on VOY when their situation wasn't as bad as other shows who didn't kill off THEIR characters just shows unfair bias.

Voyager didn't have kill off hordes of characters to show their situation was desperate, but they had to something to show how being stranded from home would make for a desperate situation. The lack of resources should have been highlighted more, they shouldn't have had power for Holodeck, they shouldn't lose shuttles all the time, because their limited resources mean they couldn't make more at that point in time and when Voyager is damaged, it should still be damaged in the next episode. That's what was needed.

See, this again is where the flaws of the premise pop up. Just WHY couldn't Voyager make its own shuttles and torpedoes using the replicators? As long as they had the energy (and in space, there's plenty) they could make more shuttles/repair shuttles and make more torpedoes.

I do agree it was dumb to have the shuttles always being destroyed. Just have them be somewhat damaged and then taken back to be repaired, or the characters are stranded because the shuttle runs out of power and can easily be recharged once back on VOY, and most stories would be unchanged.

The holodeck, well it's a psychologically useful relaxation tool. In times where they aren't starved for power and have gotten more used to the Delta Quadrant, I wouldn't have problems with them using the Holodeck.

Being damaged, yes if it was serious enough. If it's minor hull damage or something like that then they just have to make sure the next episode acknowledges what happened without anything coming of it. Like they're having the crew go off to have fun while getting repairs at an alien starbase, or repairs were done between episodes since it was minor. Just as long as this is acknowledged as having happened.

 

[exodus]

SG-1 wasn't about an all-out war, and when they did have it most of the time it was the other aliens doing the fighting.

But if you want to be that way, it still supports my point: Wanting folks to die on VOY when their situation wasn't as bad as other shows who didn't kill off THEIR characters just shows unfair bias.

Voyager didn't have kill off hordes of characters to show their situation was desperate, but they had to something to show how being stranded from home would make for a desperate situation. The lack of resources should have been highlighted more, they shouldn't have had power for Holodeck, they shouldn't lose shuttles all the time, because their limited resources mean they couldn't make more at that point in time and when Voyager is damaged, it should still be damaged in the next episode. That's what was needed.

A replicator is an unlimited source of resources.
They've only explained for 7 seasons how between those & the warp core, how they are two of the most sought after items of technology on Voyager.

See, this again is where the flaws of the premise pop up.

No, that's not in issue.
The problem is the miscommunication to the audience to relate how the technology works after seeing it used for 7 seasons on TNG. Then relating the differences in types of ships the Enterprise is to the Intripid class, why it's more advancedm and why resources issues are a easily fixable problem.

 

[Satyrquaze]

1) Kirk went beyond the edge of the Galaxy in TOS' pilot episode.

2) Yeah, it's easier to adapt to the Delta Quadrant than to such a crazy place. They also got shot a few thousand Light Years by Q in "Q Who?".

3) TNG didn't lose anyone in any of their Borg encounters either....

1) Did it take him longer than 70 years to get back? No. Yes, they hit the galactic barrier, but they didn't get any further than that. Certainly not 70,000lyrs.

2) I disagree that it was easier, Voyager would have been back in the alpha quadrant at the end of the pilot if that was the case.

3) The Enterprise-D encountered the Borg on 4 occasions. Voyager encountered them more than three times that amount. Are the Borg any less dangerous than the Dominion?

 

[exodus]

2) I disagree that it was easier, Voyager would have been back in the alpha quadrant at the end of the pilot if that was the case.

I disagree.
I don't think figuring out your supply problems & understanding you aren't going to make many allies equates to getting home sooner.

The Enterprise-D encountered the Borg on 4 occasions. Voyager encountered them more than three times that amount. Are the Borg any less dangerous than the Dominion?

Yes.
By not bothering with the Kazon or assimilating all the Talaxian convoy, the Borg have shown that they don't go after everybody. When the Dominion say no tresspassing in their space, they mean EVERYBODY and don't discriminate.

 

[The Overlord]

SG-1 wasn't about an all-out war, and when they did have it most of the time it was the other aliens doing the fighting.

But if you want to be that way, it still supports my point: Wanting folks to die on VOY when their situation wasn't as bad as other shows who didn't kill off THEIR characters just shows unfair bias.

Voyager didn't have kill off hordes of characters to show their situation was desperate, but they had to something to show how being stranded from home would make for a desperate situation. The lack of resources should have been highlighted more, they shouldn't have had power for Holodeck, they shouldn't lose shuttles all the time, because their limited resources mean they couldn't make more at that point in time and when Voyager is damaged, it should still be damaged in the next episode. That's what was needed.

A replicator is an unlimited source of resources.
They've only explained for 7 seasons how between those & the warp core, how they are two of the most sought after items of technology on Voyager.

.

Replicators still need power, hence why Star Fleet and other civilizations still mine for dilithium, instead of just replicating it, they can't do it. Also unless they had a giant replicator around, they couldn't replicate a whole shuttle in a second, they may be able to replicate parts of shuttle and maybe put one together, but without the resources of the Federation, that would waste a lot of time and man power, so being careful with the shuttles actually makes sense. Why would Cardassians need to raid other planets for resources, if replicators could get rid of any shortage right away?

Also ignoring all that, having the replicators solve all Voyager's problems for them, makes for a dull show, where the dramatic tension of them being separated from the Federation is null and void if the replicators solve all the resource problems, there was no point of putting them in the DQ in the first place.

 

[Guy Gardener]

DS9 coined the phrase "Industrial Replicator"

They designed and built the first Delta Flier in less than 26 hours.

 

[GalaxyX]

DS9 coined the phrase "Industrial Replicator"

They designed and built the first Delta Flier in less than 26 hours.

Really? I had a feeling that they were implying weeks of work on it.

 

[Kaziarl]

This is from the memory alpha article:

The staff begins to respond enthusiastically to the design offering technical suggestions, and Janeway approves the plan, hoping to have it constructed within a week.

Later on, she records a log saying they've gained some ground over the Malon's building their own shuttle over the last 24 hours. There's no indication of how long they were already working on it, although I would guess the 24 hours would be since they found out the Malon's were making theirs.

So on the outside a week, on the inside I'd guess a couple days.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Yes.
By not bothering with the Kazon or assimilating all the Talaxian convoy, the Borg have shown that they don't go after everybody. When the Dominion say no tresspassing in their space, they mean EVERYBODY and don't discriminate.

Unless you kiss the Dominion's butt, which what the vast majority of species did in the Gamma quadrant, which is a bit safer than assimilation, which what the vast majority of species in the Delta Quadrant get.

 

[Anwar]

Except for every major alien species Voyager encountered, you mean?

 

[Satyrquaze]

The fact that Borg space appeared to be so small was a classic example of bad story-telling/continuity on the part of Voyager's writers.

Course, on the other end of the spectrum the crew of DS9 had been wandering around the Gamma quad for almost 3 years before even a mention of the Dominion.

 

[exodus]

Replicators still need power, hence why Star Fleet and other civilizations still mine for dilithium, instead of just replicating it, they can't do it. Also unless they had a giant replicator around, they couldn't replicate a whole shuttle in a second, they may be able to replicate parts of shuttle and maybe put one together, but without the resources of the Federation, that would waste a lot of time and man power, so being careful with the shuttles actually makes sense. Why would Cardassians need to raid other planets for resources, if replicators could get rid of any shortage right away?

Voyager's warp drive is a brand new design and mentioned in "Innocence" that it's twice as energy efficient than any other Starfleet ship before it. Doesn't it also run on a better power source than dilithium?

They could replicate shuttle parts without the Federation.
1) "Non-Sequitur", showed that Harry had expertise in shuttle design. Wasn't that one of the reasons he was top of his class?
2) we watched them build the Delta Flyer.......and they did it twice.

So they already showed us Voyager was fully capible of building their own shuttles with the resources that already had. They just had to sacrifice replicator rations for a month and live off of home cooking instead.

Cardassia was just coming out of a war.
What do you think all of O'Brian's talk of Setlik 3 and the treaty of the Demilierized Zone was about?
The Federation has thousands of worlds to trade with for supplies. Cardassia is one plantary system allied with nobody. Due to that, they had to raid other worlds to make up the resources they'd lost.

there was no point of putting them in the DQ in the first place.

Seeking out new life and strange new civilzations. Too boldly good where no-one has gone before?

Voyager still holds true to Trek's original premise.

 

[exodus]

Unless you kiss the Dominion's butt, which what the vast majority of species did in the Gamma quadrant,

If you didn't they infected your world with the Quickening.
The Borg didn't infect those they found less perfect, they just left them alone.

Course, on the other end of the spectrum the crew of DS9 had been wandering around the Gamma quad for almost 3 years before even a mention of the Dominion.

Sorry,check your facts again.
Quark had been dealing with members of the Dominion as far back as s1, to which he had also told Sisko and the Federation about. The Ferengi were invited, the Federation was not. It was due to our trespassing for 3 years that angered the Dominion.