Man, those are some bad likenesses. Are you sure it's he?
Walter Koenig on Shat's Raw Nerve
- Thread starter ItsGreen
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Man, those are some bad likenesses. Are you sure it's he?
I honestly doubt that Nichols being shoved into the background was the same as Barrett-Roddenberry, not to mention that her character still had more characterization and lines than Uhura.
Uhura, on average had 2 - 5 lines an episode. Hailing frequencies, they're hailing us, aye sir, signal jammed sir, etc. At least Chapel had some scenes that she could claim on her own, dramatic scenes too. Chapel was far from a set piece than Uhura who could simply sit on that bridge and not say a single thing for an entire episode.
Yes, the two of them were flat in comparison to the males on the cast, but Chapel still had an advantage over Uhura. You don't need to be in command to provide something to the television show. This is obviously self evident with every single Girl of the Week that walked on and off that set each week.
Also, that's an interesting bit of information to bring up, Noname Given.
Ahahaha Shatner looks like what's his name... Mathew Broderick.
I never claimed Roddenberry was above playing favorites. After all, Majel was the one who eventually got that "-Roddenberry" after her name.
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The art from this DVD release was originally used in US advertising a few weeks after the original film poster. It appears a bit more light hearted than the tense looking poster with the entire cast, and may have been used to attract a more mainstream, non-fan audience attracted by the comedy angle and positive reviews.
I hate the light hearted poster. It looks like something a first year art student hacked out with crayons on the back of a napkin. Yeah some of the likenesses were off on the first poster but it was pretty cool looking.
Uh, nope. Jimmy Doohan had begun the Shatner bashing, and the audience ate it up. Robin Curtis and Mark Lenard fell into it, jumping on the bandwagon so to speak, and it was a disappointment to hear it.
I'm saying that Shatner had many strategies over the decades to ensure his character was in the most limelight as possible. Many actors do such upstaging antics, sometimes deliberately, sometimes in their egotistical blindness to their effect on colleagues. If you read Shatner's own autobiographies, he seems to have come to the realisation that early-days Bill Shatner was often quite oblivious to his actions' effect on his colleagues.
After decades of brushing it off as "just Bill being Bill", some of the actors decided it made good fodder for their convention appearances and autobiographies.
As I said, they obviously had stories worth repeating. And if the audience is laughing, why stop?
"OK folks, we've decided we won't tell any more stories about Shatner. Ask us something else."
[Sound of crickets.]
"Okay, see you on the autograph queue."
Have you ever talked to George Takei?
He approached every ST film as "This will be our last time working together", and he jumped at opportunities to go out on a memorable high. He loved "The Entropy Effect" novel that came out after ST:TMP, which showed Sulu in a romance and getting a promotion onto another ship.
He held off returning for ST II, so Bennett tempted him back with the promotion scene. While he never believed there'd be a ST III, at that point, Nimoy was leaving Spock for good and Shatner had once said he'd only do 13 episodes of "Phase II". Will Decker had gone after TMP. So, he assumed it was the last film, but who knew what might happen if ST returned to TV. Similarly, he also thought ST III was the end. And then ST IV.
The concept of a "Captain Sulu" series of telemovies came from a group of fans at a convention, following the success of ST IV - and by the time of ST V and TNG, it had captured a few fannish imaginations - and then Takei himself put the concept into his convention appearance talks, even suggesting a helmsman on the show could be a young Picard with hair. After ST VI, he'd also suggest that Christian Slater might co-star. But this was mere convention shtick.
If anything, the concept did inspire the writing of the opening scenes of ST VI. Takei was amazed the script had references to both "captain of Excelsior" and Sulu's "The Entropy Effect" first name, Hikaru. The campaign also led to three audio novels by Simon & Schuster Audioworks, and "The Kobayashi Alternative" game, that involved the search for a missing Captain Sulu.
I don't think Takei ever believed a TV series would happen, but it gave him plenty of convention fodder. "Flashback" offered perhaps a last-gasp, but highly unlikely hope.
I'd still like to hear how Shatner could muff half a line for no other reason but to spite Takei while still leaving the rest of the scene suitable for inclusion in the finished movie.
And who made this assertion? I wouldn't put it past Meyer to blame Shatner for his decision to delete the line.
A small group of fans here in Sydney, Australia, first heard about this quashed scene from George Takei himself in 1984. He was passing through on his way back from a Brisbane convention. He didn't tell the story with anger, more of a disappointed tone, and IIRC, it wasn't part of his convention shtick in those early days:
"Therin" out of uniform with George Takei by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
I didn't see print versions of the anecdote for several more years.
I've seen plenty of TV bloopers where actors muffed half a line. Sometimes they muff only one word. Editors would be quite skilled at saving scenes by chopping out unsuitable muffs or facial grimaces.
Still sounds like someone is looking for an excuse to bash Shatner, even if they have to make something up.
Its also interesting to note that's its all been from one side, i cant say i have ever heard of Shatner dissing his TOS acting chums at conventions....of course i think most of the dissing was purely sensationalised gossip simply to titillate the audience at these early conventions, and no doubt a few off the cuff grumblings at a few early convention began to snowball with word of mouth, and before you know it......Shatner is a monster and they all hate him.
I have no doubt that most of those complaining about Shatner no doubt only exaggerated these small minor behind the scene incidents for the sake of a good story at the time, but after so many years they have become very real for them and have took on biblical proportions in the tellers heads.
Who, me or George?
My other memorable example was Yvonne Craig. It wasn't a Star Trek convention. She had glowing things to say about most of her leading men, including Elvis Presley, Bing Crosby, Dennis Hopper and David McCallum. She had some funny/quirky stories about Adam West, and I guess West fans would say she was "Adam West bashing". But again, there was a fondness evident in her stories. Yvonne had some very pithy comments when asked about William Shatner. Shatner fans probably would have called it "Shatner bashing". The rest of us laughed along with her, but you could tell she wasn't fond of Shatner the way she was with everyone else.
The conclusion I've come away with, from my various meetings with actors and seeing them at conventions, about Shatner's attitudes to felllow actors matches up pretty well with Shatner's own conclusions about himself in his "Star Trek Memories" books. Even if you scaled back the other actors' stories a bit, to allow for exaggeration over time, there must be more to the friction than jealousy or Tall Poppy Syndrome. Shatner had/has a big ego, had his character's interests at heart and was very caught up in his own marital problems (first Gloria, then Marcy, then mistress Vera, then Nerine, now Elizabeth). He was very rarely seen at events important to his ST co-stars. He chose not to socialize with the people he worked with. He's been a busy man.
If that's Shatner bashing, my apologies to Shatner. I'm seeing him on stage in April. A non Star Trek event (but he's also doing a ST convention the same week. I wonder if he'll do any actor bashing as part of his routine?
Shatner bashers would say that this is proof that Shatner is consumed with himself.
When asked for specifics of episodes, he often admits that he can't remember the details of most.By Shatner's own evidence, he had to interview his old co-stars for his books because he realized he really hadn't taken the time to get to know them during the 60s, and hadn't attended many conventions with them in the 70s and 80s. His deep friendship with Nimoy didn't really emerge until the late 80s, when they were both doing lots of directing and found new things in common.
Famously, though, Shatner seemingly dissed his fans instead - in that cutting "Get a life!" sequence of "Saturday Night Live". He claimed it all to be part of the joke, a work of satire, but many fans saw it as a very personal insult, and perhaps too close to the truth.
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A lot of fans also forget about the intro to that skit, where he says he hopes the fans have a really good sense of humor, or he's in really big trouble.
Frankly, that skit would've worked no matter who was in the part of the con guest who goes off on the nerdy fans (which was the whole point of the thing; these guys have to put up with some of the most braindead questions ever conceived, and have to smile through it all, holding back that urge to just tell the lot of 'em to "get a life, people!"). The fact that it was Shatner just added fuel to those first rumblings, which really took off after TFF.
Frankly, that skit would've worked no matter who was in the part of the con guest who goes off on the nerdy fans (which was the whole point of the thing; these guys have to put up with some of the most braindead questions ever conceived, and have to smile through it all, holding back that urge to just tell the lot of 'em to "get a life, people!"). The fact that it was Shatner just added fuel to those first rumblings, which really took off after TFF.
That's my recollection as well. Jimmy Doohan groused a good bit about Shatner, but it wasn't until he had alienated a certain portion of fandom with that HILARIOUS!!! skit that the Shatner bashing began in earnest.
Personally, I thought FAMILY GUY did a good job with lampooning the question by asking mudane maintenance man kind of questions of the TNG cast, but I'll never forget Shatner's appearance on SNL. From the Ollie North song-sketch to the Sweeney Sisters to get a life, it was one of the best episodes of that series in a long while.
I swear when I saw that skit with some friends on the SNL episode it aired on, we were all like, - "Wait, that's (unfortunately) NOT an exaggeration, I've SEEN fans ask questions and act like that at Conventions..."
Just came back from catching Shatner at Megacon. He's a character but it just backs up what I said: He's great when he's not working. Funny guy and it was interesting when he was talking about how he finally accepted the whole Star Trek deal later on in life and decided to stop taking it so seriously.
One thing he did not do was talk about Star Trek or his time on the set or his relationship with the actors. It was just about him and what he's doing now and how some of it connects to Star Trek.
Now on the other hand, the TNG Panel was in more of a light similar to that what's going on in this thread: Co-stars bashing the lead actor. Micheal, Marina, and Jonathan made jokes at each other and many jokes about Patrick but it was all in good fun. Fans even asked them to retell the stories of how Micheal wanted to crack a egg on Patrick's head, etc. I do not see what the actors say at conventions malicious attacks on their actors. Really, I don't. I see it as " Remember the time when? Oh he was such a joke. Yeah! LOL Real funny,I wanted to punch him so bad for that one time! " etc... No one wants to hear a "happy" story, people want to hear stories of the actors going at each other.
One thing he did not do was talk about Star Trek or his time on the set or his relationship with the actors. It was just about him and what he's doing now and how some of it connects to Star Trek.
Now on the other hand, the TNG Panel was in more of a light similar to that what's going on in this thread: Co-stars bashing the lead actor. Micheal, Marina, and Jonathan made jokes at each other and many jokes about Patrick but it was all in good fun. Fans even asked them to retell the stories of how Micheal wanted to crack a egg on Patrick's head, etc. I do not see what the actors say at conventions malicious attacks on their actors. Really, I don't. I see it as " Remember the time when? Oh he was such a joke. Yeah! LOL Real funny,I wanted to punch him so bad for that one time! " etc... No one wants to hear a "happy" story, people want to hear stories of the actors going at each other.
I remember a teenaged fan asking Shatner the combination of his safe in 1977 at Star Trek Atlanta.