TV Seasons?

[mswood]

startrekwatcher

I have to disagree with you on a couple of points (and agree on a couple). O do agree as the medium ages, we see more and more recycling (we did in early years as well), but as more and more shows are created, it leads to more and more chances of recycling). And I think that in an of itself isn't a problem. After all the old adage that there is only a set number of plots everything since is just rehashing them is very true. But what you want to be able to do is take a plot or theme, and spin it for your show and craft it so thats it's better then most of those similar plots done previously. And yeah more often then no they miss.

As for the acting. I actually think acting and the methodology of the craft as improved by leaps and bounds, especially from certain decades. AS we live in one where there is a high rate of stage, movie and typical tv actors all working the medium of tv (this also happened in the 60's quite often), but other decades tv actors tended to be primarily actors from tv. I also think general dialogue can be far more realistic and well done. This is for scripted hour longs, I tend not to watch comedies anymore (be in film or tv, just seems I have lost any real sense of humor, and this goes to some classics from years past as well).

 

[mswood]

^
Yeah...we all know the best show on The CW is Vampire Diaries.

While I stopped watching VD after they ruined the lead, but I honestly think SPN is miles ahead of Smallville in quality, and I think (up to the point I stopped watching) that VD (a type of show I have no real interest in) was considerable better then Smallville during the same time frame.

 

[Jetfire]

^
I have been a fan of Smallville and been watching from the beginning...10 years! And I have to say in 2 seasons...VD is light years ahead of Smallville...it is just written better.

I haven't been watching SPN too much lately...but it is light years beyond Smallville.

 

[mswood]

Jetfire

Yeah everyone hates breaks, I don't think anyone will argue that point. And it really varies by network. If you have a network where sports and specials make up a large portion of their broadcast you are going to face some form of breaks (those deliver great ratings). If you watch something like the lowly CW where they don't have the funds to have specials or winter, summer and mid season replacement programming then you are absolutely going to have a lot of significant breaks.

Some of the perks of the 13 episode season can be (but not always) longer lead time for episode prep (especially writing, but some shows do it in the same manner as shows that produce 22 episodes). Usually (though not always) they are broadcast during the typically rerun time of the broadcast nets (that gives them a better chance and being watched), on cable they have the chance to push boundries both in humor and dramatic elements. And a big, big key one. THere is a host of talent both in front and behind the scenes that is perfectly willing to work a 13 episode season, but doesn't want a 22 episodes season. THis often gives them a talent pool of actors, writers and directors that wouldn't be that interested in network tv. And a lot of talent writers and directors have left network tv because there is the cable medium where they can do more, where they are less limited on what type of material and stories they can craft.

 

[mswood]

^
I have been a fan of Smallville and been watching from the beginning...10 years! And I have to say in 2 seasons...VD is light years ahead of Smallville...it is just written better.

I haven't been watching SPN too much lately...but it is light years beyond Smallville.

I also have watched everything on Smallville (but half the time the show is an utter joke).

I honestly would still be watching VD if they hadn't had Elena tell her witch friend not to kill Damian. It just was utterly not something that the character should have done.

I mean seriously girl just lost her whole family, her brother is really all she has left, and this being (who is a killer, she has first hand knowledge of this) snaps her brothers neck in front of her. And she stops her friend from ending that threat. Sorry just not possible.

I like to compare that to SPN, human or monster if you are a lethal threat to Sam or Dean, Sam or Dean is going to kill you (or at the very least attempt to). Women, Man, demons, Angel, monster, whatever. You die. And again these are two people who are the only family they have left. There is no real sugar coating about what lengths they will go to to stop a lethal threat to their family.

I just couldn't watch the character after that.

 

[Jetfire]

I also have watched everything on Smallville (but half the time the show is an utter joke).

I honestly would still be watching VD if they hadn't had Elena tell her witch friend not to kill Damian. It just was utterly not something that the character should have done.

I mean seriously girl just lost her whole family, her brother is really all she has left, and this being (who is a killer, she has first hand knowledge of this) snaps her brothers neck in front of her. And she stops her friend from ending that threat. Sorry just not possible.

This was a major misstep with the character and I think Elena's popularity has gone way down since last season...Nina Dobrev is playing 2 parts Elena & Katherine and I think people who like Dobrev have gravitated toward Katherine. It was something I over looked...cause I just generally enjoy the show...but yeah it really wouldn't happen on a show that is honest in it's writing.

I think in many ways SPN is better than BtVS in regards to what you said about SPN.

 

[mswood]

SPN has its own fair share of problems but the relationship between Sam and Dean, is one of the best family relationship I have watched on tv. And the writers might veer into softer materials (and often at the expense of the larger plot), but the one thing they normally nail is the connection between the leads, and how they react to things.

Buffy is tied way to much into camp and isn't grounded in reality, heck even the more serious Angel didn't ground itself. Though they showed they could nail grounded reality when they produced "the Body". Which was a great, great episode of tv.

And it isn't that SPN also doesn't handle humor (though not much in Camp) and doesn't have some media heavy dialogue (because it does), but when it comes to character work SPN is far, far of a realistic show. In many ways its almost if someone took the X-Files and Buffy put them in a blender and created SPN. Because it takes more of its normal tone and atmosphere from the X-Files (I am sure Kim Manners large impact helped there), as more humor (like Buffy) and two very grounded leads like X-Files. Frankly I think its far more balanced then the X-Files was. Though on the production front, the X-Files kills it, kills it dead.

 

[Jetfire]

I loved BtVS...but I would have loved to seen a more serious show...at some points it was too campy. I think a serious show about the supernatural & fantasy can be done and still have elements of humor.

[edit] I should say I would like to see a show with the Character of Buffy Summers in a more realistic light...more serious in tone with the general premise of BtVS...as silly as it sounds.

Back to TV seasons...

 

[startrekwatcher]

Strange as it may seem I actually find that the only two series I consistently find entertaining and involving are CW shows--Gossip Girl--shallow but a consistently fun primetime soap and The Vampire Diaries--there was a patch in the middle this season that hinted at the dreaded sophomore slump but the last five episodes renewed my faith--I love that VD is heavily serialized with an intriguing mythology and treats itself as a serious drama. I hate camp and tried watching Buffy but dropped it pretty fast--I just don't get the praise or the way fans worship Whedon. Camp should be limited to sitcoms. That's probably why I enjoy shows like The X-Files, TNG, DS9, VD, Friday the 13th the series etc--they took themselves seriously despite the fantastical elements. It is also another reason why I hate SN's comedies and most of their meta episodes.

I tried watching Smallville but it is horrible. Supernatural used to be must see tv for me but after the last two seasons my interest has dropped and could care if it is renewed or canned honestly.

VD definitely is more plot-based than SN but honestly I'll take a plot-focused show over a character one if the character stuff feels stale the way it has for me with SN. In the best of both worlds you'd get a nice balance of both but that rarely happens anymore.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Wow, all this dissing of Buffy never used to happen on these boards. Very surprising conversation.

I have watched all of these shows, and for my money, Buffy is the most well-written. I rarely cry as a result of a TV show episode (outside of Buffy/Angel, only twice that I recall - the closing montage of DS9 and the very end of the last episode of Babylon 5)...but Buffy/Angel have brought me to tears a few different times - something that I don't think ANY other TV show or TV show franchise has ever done. In fact, there is one episode of Angel where I STILL cry every time I watch it - and more than even most of my favorite tear-jerker movies! And if you know me very well, that says something about the quality of the writing and the depth of the characters and how I've come to feel about them. Buffy has it's blind spots (as do all TV shows)...but overall I consider it to be a fine effort. And it was done BEFORE the Twilight-fueled 'vampire craze' took off.

Smallville had a couple of good characters at one time (translated: Lex), but it also had some really annoying ones, and has LONG outstayed it's welcome. I watched the first 6 seasons...but although I have the DVDs past that, I can't bring myself to care enough to watch them. Although I WOULD tune in for any episode in which Lana is killed off in a horrible death. If that has happened while I wasn't looking, please let me know and I'll certainly pull out the DVD of that one!

I am trying to watch Supernatural right now (I have the last episode of S1 on my screen even as I type this and have seen a few scattered episodes past that) but it can be really slow going at times. And the humor/snappy dialog isn't even in the same league as a Wheadon show. There is simply no comparison. The guys are okay actors, I suppose, and reasonably decent eye candy (although back in the day, I'd have taken David Boreanaz over them, hands down!)...but I don't know...I find the whole thing a bit predictable. I hear it gets better later, so I'm gonna hang in...but if I was watching this show without benefit of others saying it's decent, 4 seasons later, I'd probably quit watching after I finish this last episode of S1 later tonight. The verdict so far is 'okay, but nothing special'. The X-Files (which I watched from start to finish) is tons better.

I've only seen the first 5 or 6 episodes of Vampire Diaries...but to me, it came across as a cash-in on the Twilight craze....adding in Ian Somerhalder in an effort to draw Twilight's audience of teen girls, who were sure to fall in love with those beautiful blue eyes (I fell in love with them on LOST, and I'm not even a teen, so don't feel bad ). I don't know...I might give it another try since I'm running out of scifi shows I've NOT seen (what can I say? I've been at this scifi thing a LONG time )...but I was not all that impressed the first go-round. To me, it was simply trying to cash in on Twilight, and was not even TRYING to appeal to an audience outside of that teen/20's female demographic.

As for any of these shows being 'more realistic' than Buffy in any way...well, that is just silly, IMO. These are fantasy TV shows filled with vampires, demons, and other supernatural beings. 'Realistic' is hardly in the repertoire. And frankly, I don't see Sam & Dean's relationship as any more 'realistic' than is Buffy's relationship with her gang of close friends. I mean, both are based on fighting evil beings...and in all cases, it is obvious that the central characters care about each other and would do anything to help each other. I don't see them as being very different at all, except for the face that Buffy's crew is funnier when humor enters into the storyline.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

CBS outside of TBBT has literally NOTHING on its network that interests me because it seems every show is a fucking clone of another one. CBS is turning into the franchise network with 3 CSI's, 2 NCIS and 2 CM shows.

And this is the network that feared becoming 'The Rural Network' in the late 1960's, having to get rid of every show with a tree in it and then feared becoming 'The Superhero Network', getting rid of every superhero show that was on in the late '70s. Looks like they should fear being 'The Cop Network' as well.

 

[Jetfire]

PKTrekGirl

Don't get me wrong...I love Buffy...I mean LUV! Buffy...but it is a premise that could be explored more and could be done realistic & have more edge.

VD is a bit soapy but it does handle vampires and it's own lore very well...this season has be outstanding...not to say it hasn't had it's problems...as discussed by mswood & I. The Vampire Diaries is nothing like Twilight and the VD books(1991) did come out before the BtVS Movie (1992).

 

[Starbreaker]

I don't blame CBS for rolling out cop shows. They're entertaining and you tune in every once in a while for the cases or watch every week for the character. I happen to enjoy several shows on CBS. I don't feel like they're catered to the lowest common denominator either. I know a lot of people on here won't watch anything that's not sci-fi, but I think crime shows are a lot of fun... and they're more likely to stick around more than a handful of episodes if they're well written.

As long as CBS keeps winning every timeslot except when Dancing With the Stars or American Idol is on, they should be in good shape for another decade. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I am trying to watch Supernatural right now (I have the last episode of S1 on my screen even as I type this and have seen a few scattered episodes past that) but it can be really slow going at times. And the humor/snappy dialog isn't even in the same league as a Wheadon show. There is simply no comparison. The guys are okay actors, I suppose, and reasonably decent eye candy (although back in the day, I'd have taken David Boreanaz over them, hands down!)...but I don't know...I find the whole thing a bit predictable.

I agree. The guys are decent actors but not great ones. Yes the show is very predictable and that is not going to change--don't expect shocking twists or a real shake-up of the formula. If you are looking for an interesting plot or a new spin on an old chestnut SN isn't the show for that. It isn't particularly well-plotted and in my opinion a lot of episodes treat the supernatural plot as a mere means to an end. Yes there are season arcs but they aren't there in a central way most weeks--only in a very peripheral way.

The limited budget also hampers production values, extras, new sets, and the fabulous classic rock background goes away for the most part as the series progresses. This show is all about Sam and Dean--sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. I'll let you decide for yourself but I think S5 and 6 tend to get a little repetitive in regards to the characters and their relationship.

I hear it gets better later, so I'm gonna hang in...but if I was watching this show without benefit of others saying it's decent, 4 seasons later, I'd probably quit watching after I finish this last episode of S1 later tonight.

The S1 finale is one of the show's better episodes but yes it will never displace The X-Files or Friday the 13th The Series for me. It is just too uneven from season to season and just when the show seems to have a gravitas to it it does a stupid comedy or meta episode reminding you that this is just a series. S4 is its best season and it should have stopped there.

The verdict so far is 'okay, but nothing special'. The X-Files (which I watched from start to finish) is tons better.

Yeah you can't beat the characters of Scully and Mulder and I found both the professional and ultimately romantic relationship between the two to be one of the best in tv history. Also TXF was better with its plots--they were more inventive and held more surprises. Not to mention TXF was consistent--I just can't stand uneven shows and I tend to view SN as one.

I've only seen the first 5 or 6 episodes of Vampire Diaries...but to me, it came across as a cash-in on the Twilight craze....adding in Ian Somerhalder in an effort to draw Twilight's audience of teen girls, who were sure to fall in love with those beautiful blue eyes (I fell in love with them on LOST, and I'm not even a teen, so don't feel bad ). I don't know...I might give it another try since I'm running out of scifi shows I've NOT seen (what can I say? I've been at this scifi thing a LONG time )...but I was not all that impressed the first go-round. To me, it was simply trying to cash in on Twilight, and was not even TRYING to appeal to an audience outside of that teen/20's female demographic.

Yes I'd recommend giving it a second go. The first 6 or so episodes are underwhelming and I was about to dump it but then it really got its act together--an interesting mytharc developed and before I knew it it was appointment viewing. I hate teen angst/love and thought VD might be of that ilk but surprisingly it really isn't. Yes there is a romantic component but it doesn't get in the way and thanks to a combo of the writing and actors it is actually inoffensive.

 

[Jax]

PKTrekGirl
Don't get me wrong...I love Buffy...I mean LUV! Buffy...but it is a premise that could be explored more and could be done realistic & have more edge.

I think thats a reason why Whedon created Angel to go down the more serious route. Both show are aamzing but I always give the edge to Buffy being the best of the two because of the more relaxed casual nature to it because too much dark gets tiresome at times.

You seriously believe Smallville is the best show on the CW? Lord, that really doesn't speak well for you.

Next Top Model, Hellcats, 90120, One Tree Hill, Gossip Girl and that Twilight rip off...Yeh its not hard for Smallville to be the better.

I've recently started Smallville and I am nearly at the end of season 5 and I am glad I can burn through it in one go because I would of never stuck with it over 10 years. When the show does the DC mythology or the Lex/Clark stories its great but it can be very very average the rest of the time and smacks off being molded to fit a WB audience instead of just doing its own thing...However I do love Chloe .

As for Supernatural...I seen a few episodes and why there are some interesting points to it, for some reason the acting and dialogue puts me off. I normally don't call upon acting because most people on TV are fine but I do notice CW/WB/UPN type networks really have a problem with casting. I can just take Smallville wooden acting from Lana Lang and several people they hire throughout the season as one off guests...I can't watch 2 shows like that at the same time.

 

[Jetfire]

@Jax
I never cared for Angel as a character...why I had a hard time getting into his series.

Smallville only gets worse after S5...after S7 all bets are off...it is just horrible...the only good thing about S8 is the introduction of Tess...but they eventually mess that up.

[edit] How is TVD...which the books were published in 1991 be a Twilight ripoff when that book came out in 2005 and S. Meyer came up with the idea in 2003? And the stories are very different from each other.

 

[Jax]

Well Twilight is a TVD rip off then but I have no real interest in a show where the premise is a love triangle between the female protagonist and two vampire brothers. Buffy n Angel were the only Vamprie esq stories I could ever get on but that was because they were presented in a way I could get onboard with.

Plus The CW aims there shows for the 18-34 female demographic, which I do not fit nor feel inclined to watch a show aimed at. I've seen bits on ITV 4 over here in the UK when bored and it was more than enough for one lifetime .

I caught some Smallville stuff in season 9 I believe it was on Channel 4 in the UK with Zod and it looked alright so it made me jump into the show. I know they do a bit of other DC characters and the JLA so am looking forward to the show getting into the heavy Clark vs. Lex and DC universe stories hinted on in the earlier seasons.