I'm changing my politcal lean

[Deranged Nasat]

Personally, I've never understood why anyone would affiliate in terms of "political leanings" anyway. I for one am neither left wing or right wing. I have my personal opinions on most subjects and my own individual outlook, informed by the entirety of what I experience and read, and balanced with what I'm personally inclined to believe. And I read a wide range of publications from all manner of liberal, conservative, left and right viewpoints. Always I find some things I agree with, or strike me as sensible, always I find some things distasteful or foolish.

I describe myself as a "liberal person" but that does not mean I align myself with a politically "liberal" position. Why would someone do that? Politics is a part of life, it shouldn't define your life. Why must the personal become political? Why are personal outlooks or beliefs identified in terms of affiliation with political positions? With me, there are no "left wing beliefs" or "right wing beliefs", just my beliefs. And a "liberal" or "conservative" position on any one topic does not mean I'm defining my opinion in terms of political positions. I mean, we are all individuals. I am who I am due to my unique experiences, personality and beliefs. Same with you. Being a bit facetious here, if I say something and you agree with it, does that make you a "Deranged Nasat-ist?" No. Because you are you, and you agree with me because of how your own unique self has related to what I said. Agreement with a position does not subordinate your identity to that position.

No offense meant to the OP, but the argument of "I support this neatly packaged though vaguely explained concept but I don't support this one" makes little sense to me. It's like you're selecting at a supermarket, as though beliefs and opinions are pre-packaged and stamped with a politically-affiliated label, and then you're just scooping up the ones that catch your fancy. And then saying "well, I have more Green labels here than Purple, guess that means I'm a Green!" Note, I'm not trying to say something rude like "have you no independent thought?" or any other such accusation, but why are you letting political parties define and pre-package belief and opinion? Those things should be personal, and defined by you, not political, and defined by the state.

 

[Nowhere Man]

The problem I have with conservatives is they say they are for small government, but love tellIng gays they can't marry and love big war spending. That is not small government. They pick and choose, down with the EPA, but let's regulate teachers unions. They are full of shit frankly. Liberals, well they dont have any guts and are too intrusive. They wouldn't know the consulting if it came up and bit them in the ass. They only want to respect the consulting when it does come to gay rights and regulations. The use interstate commerce to justify anything and completely ignore the 10th amendment. I personally think a new constitution needs to be written or at least revised. I had a thread about this and got slammed for even thinking about it, but i still stand by that thought. These days independent is the way to be. It's hard to stay with one party because they can't stay on point.

Look at Obama, he changes his mind every day. First he wanted to close quantanimo, then he didn't. He said that the alleged terrorists deserve a trial, now they can be held indefinitely? John Mcain can't make up his mind. Sarah Palin doesn't have a mind and John Boner is just an ass. The funny thing is that the Rebublicans are going to hand Obama a second term because the can't find a decent person to run against him. I say we throw out the whole lot of them and start a new. Not one person has spent a day in jail for the financial crisis, the oil spill, katrina, Iraq, the list goes on and on. So I don't blame anyone for changing their political leanings I do it everyday I watch the news because you can't stay with one party.

 

[Lindley]

They wouldn't know the consulting if it came up and bit them in the ass. They only want to respect the consulting when it does come to gay rights and regulations.

Autocorrect of a misspelled "Constitution"?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'd just like to take a moment to applaud the OP for opposing terrorism and slavery, when so many won't take a stand on either issue these days. A lot of the jokers here are going to try and convince you that you're wrong and that slavery and terrorism are just misunderstood (I'm looking at you, Kestra), but you stick to your guns and keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Nowhere Man]

They wouldn't know the consulting if it came up and bit them in the ass. They only want to respect the consulting when it does come to gay rights and regulations.

Autocorrect of a misspelled "Constitution"?

dam iphone.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I'd just like to take a moment to applaud the OP for opposing terrorism and slavery, when so many won't take a stand on either issue these days. A lot of the jokers here are going to try and convince you that you're wrong and that slavery and terrorism are just misunderstood (I'm looking at you, Kestra), but you stick to your guns and keep fighting the good fight.

Slavery was an instutution that the whole world though was a good idea and was ok with at one time or another. Terrorism is a relative term, i'm sure those who practice terrorism think they are freedom fighters. No need to be a dick.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Conservatives believe in whatever their rich masters tell them to.

Liberals believe whatever that butterfly just told them.

Even in your scenario, I'll take the butterfly in a heartbeat.

 

[milo bloom]

Why do you bring race into this? This is exactly what I meant about unnecessary vitriol and personal attacks, and both sides being guilty of it. I don't give a damn what someone looks like; I only give a damn about their policies. If you were to see my voting record, it would speak for itself in that regard. I don't care about the color of a candidate's skin as long as they are in favor of the government butting out of my life.

Most people are the same on both sides of the aisle--and frankly, it looks like an attempt to demonize those one disagrees with to try to paint them as racists, rather than a coherent argument on policy.

What does a birth certificate have to do with policy? If someone is clouding their arguments with extraneous criticisms, then that means I take their criticism a little less seriously.

Look at Obama, he changes his mind every day. First he wanted to close quantanimo, then he didn't. He said that the alleged terrorists deserve a trial, now they can be held indefinitely? John Mcain can't make up his mind. Sarah Palin doesn't have a mind and John Boner is just an ass. The funny thing is that the Rebublicans are going to hand Obama a second term because the can't find a decent person to run against him. I say we throw out the whole lot of them and start a new. Not one person has spent a day in jail for the financial crisis, the oil spill, katrina, Iraq, the list goes on and on. So I don't blame anyone for changing their political leanings I do it everyday I watch the news because you can't stay with one party.

I can't ever see myself going back to the Republican party, though I could see myself leaving the Democratic party if a truly liberal and progressive party were to be formed. So, no, you don't have to stay with one party just because you "mostly" fit into it, but then there also comes a point where you have to pull a lever marked D or R because they best represent your views. At least until we get viable third (or fourth) parties, or we get run-off elections.

As for Obama changing his mind? I'm very disappointed that he let things like the health insurance public option go and hasn't pushed harder on Guantanamo, but then he admits that his stance on gay marriage is "evolving" and then not much later he orders the DOJ to stop defending DOMA.

There is a point where you can call a politician wishy-washy, or a waffler, but there's also a point where you can say "he's learning as he takes in new information, and that means he's going to change his mind on certain things, sometimes that's for the better (like DOMA), or sometimes that means things get pushed down the road because they were much more complicated then he initially thought". I certainly don't want a politician that latches onto something, and refuses to change his mind, even after being shown to be horribly, horribly wrong (coughAfghanistan&Iraqcough).


And I'll take the butterfly also.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'd just like to take a moment to applaud the OP for opposing terrorism and slavery, when so many won't take a stand on either issue these days. A lot of the jokers here are going to try and convince you that you're wrong and that slavery and terrorism are just misunderstood (I'm looking at you, Kestra), but you stick to your guns and keep fighting the good fight.

Slavery was an instutution that the whole world though was a good idea and was ok with at one time or another. Terrorism is a relative term, i'm sure those who practice terrorism think they are freedom fighters. No need to be a dick.

Since we're not living in the 19th century, and we're talking about American politics and not the whole world, it was a joke about how you can sort of take being opposed to terrorism and slavery as a given for the vast majority of American politicians. But thanks for the unnecessary history lesson, Captain Obvious.

 

[Nowhere Man]

There's no excuse for Guantamino still bieng open. I don't see how you can get that one so wrong. This is tyrany at it's best. Everyone on this planet has a right to hebious corpus, this was settled I thought. It does not mean only if your a citizen, it's no matter what. To detain people indefinately and not charge them is wrong and against the law.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Conservatives believe in whatever their rich masters tell them to.

Liberals believe whatever that butterfly just told them.

Even in your scenario, I'll take the butterfly in a heartbeat.

I'll take a rich master. I hear the pension plan is better.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Nah. I plan to live better, not just longer.

Now, if I was the evil master...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Why do you bring race into this? This is exactly what I meant about unnecessary vitriol and personal attacks, and both sides being guilty of it. I don't give a damn what someone looks like; I only give a damn about their policies. If you were to see my voting record, it would speak for itself in that regard. I don't care about the color of a candidate's skin as long as they are in favor of the government butting out of my life.

Most people are the same on both sides of the aisle--and frankly, it looks like an attempt to demonize those one disagrees with to try to paint them as racists, rather than a coherent argument on policy.

Then what made January 2009 different from December 2008?

Nothing was different for me. I didn't like his policies then, and I still didn't like them after I saw him in action. In fact, I disapprove now even more because I have seen examples of his decision-making process being (in my opinion) poor such as being slow to respond to the oil spill, among others. I didn't like it when the government botched Katrina and I don't like that Obama botched the oil spill too. Talk about kicking the Gulf Coast in the teeth, twice!


milo: Again, you're bringing up something I never did. Why do you assume I'm a birther? When did I cloud any argument with such an accusation? The proof is conclusive--he was born in Hawaii. Why do you ascribe something to a person without asking them first?

 

[Kestra]

A lot of the jokers here are going to try and convince you that you're wrong and that slavery and terrorism are just misunderstood (I'm looking at you, Kestra), but you stick to your guns and keep fighting the good fight.

What the hell, man? Way to start a bar fight and drag me in the middle of it.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I describe myself as a "liberal person" but that does not mean I align myself with a politically "liberal" position.

Same here. This is why I always distinguish between "liberal" and "Left Wing." They are not the same thing.

Even in your scenario, I'll take the butterfly in a heartbeat.

Me, too.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6727qgmRbY[/yt]


And, as I've said before, the only way to get qualified candidates into elected positions is two-part election reform: 1) Elimination of the Electoral College and 2) Ranking of candidates.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

A lot of the jokers here are going to try and convince you that you're wrong and that slavery and terrorism are just misunderstood (I'm looking at you, Kestra), but you stick to your guns and keep fighting the good fight.

What the hell, man? Way to start a bar fight and drag me in the middle of it.

If you didn't want to be included in the Axis of Evil you shouldn't have posted that picture.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Kestra will crucify you on her Axis of Evil for your insolence.