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Watching Babylon 5 for the first time... *Spoilers, duh*

"Into the Fire", for me, was the climax of the entire show, and everything is downhill from there.

I wouldn't agree with that. I can see why you might feel that way, but for me, it was never just about the Vorlons and Shadows.
I tend to see "Z'ha'dum" as the climax, the pivotal point at which the story changes. Here we have Sheridan make the fateful decision to leap.... and in so doing commits himself to the path of what he must do in order to win this Shadow War. Then again, that still leaves the conflict with Earth, but even then he comes back from Z'ha'dum a changed, harden and committed man who is now willing to go to the lengths he must.
 
I tend to see "Z'ha'dum" as the climax, the pivotal point at which the story changes. Here we have Sheridan make the fateful decision to leap.... and in so doing commits himself to the path of what he must do in order to win this Shadow War. Then again, that still leaves the conflict with Earth, but even then he comes back from Z'ha'dum a changed, harden and committed man who is now willing to go to the lengths he must.

Yeah, I buy that.

Z'ha'dum was a game-changer. After the exposition in that episode, we knew almost everything about the Shadows and the mystery that had surrounded them and driven that strand of the story for the past 2 1/2 years was somewhat diminished.

I think it was for the best that JMS concluded that story sooner rather than later after the revelations and events of Z'ha'dum.

Personally, I always found the conflict with Earth strand of the story to be more interesting.
 
Just a suggestion...there's plenty of time for after-show overviews and discussions of the merits of individual seasons *after* Jeff's finished. Why is everybody so eager to rehash and spoil stuff?

Jan
 
Indeed... Lets not get ahead of ourselves with spoiling what is left of B5 after "Into the Fire". There is plenty left.

Start another thread if you must discuss where B5 climaxes. ;)
 
I wasn't trying to spoil him, I was speaking more to my feelings at the time that "Into the Fire" ended, thus ending the most interesting part of the story for me. It's pretty hard to beat enigmatic god-like aliens.
 
Just a suggestion...there's plenty of time for after-show overviews and discussions of the merits of individual seasons *after* Jeff's finished. Why is everybody so eager to rehash and spoil stuff?

Jan

Indeed... Lets not get ahead of ourselves with spoiling what is left of B5 after "Into the Fire". There is plenty left.

Start another thread if you must discuss where B5 climaxes. ;)

Because it's quite relevant at this point, provided it does not reveal too much too soon. Given that Jef has said he's watched up through "Into the Fire". I think it's okay.

But on the chance that Jef might consider it spoilery as such - and perception is sometimes everything - it can be throttled back.
 
You sir, are going to have an awful lot of typing to do for awhile! And that's a good thing. :D
 
"Falling Toward Apotheosis"

Summer's here and the colonel is shaking things up at KFV! The colonel's offering some Deep South deals that'll keep the whole dang family coming back for seconds, like our new Kosh Kabobs made with all-natural ancient meat skewered on an electric skillet. Try them today for just seven credits. Or go bold with our new spicy eight-piece fried Vorlon meal, made fresh with your choice of two sides and a warm, tangy First Ones Pie for only twenty credits. Hurry in today!*

*Offer not valid on Earth, Mars or any other Clark-affiliated territory. The surgeon general suggests Vorlon meat not be consumed by pregnant women, people over the age of sixty-five, people with a history of alcoholism, latent telepaths, anyone who wishes to live or people with a history of being alive.


Sorry, I just... I had to.

This was an exceptional episode, everyone. Nothing on this show has struck me the way the revelation that Sheridan has twenty years has, even if he's right that it's a good run. The guy's really been put through the wringer, then he finds out he has an official expiration date, then he has to deal with Delenn's heartbreak over the whole thing.

By the way, I enjoy Lyta, mainly because I enjoy Pat Tallman. I think I had the biggest crush on her as a kid; she was the first redhead that got me all starry-eyed. For some reason I was never bothered by the gills, probably because SeaQuest DSV was on when I was a kid, too. And since I thought a DeLuise brother with gills was suave, certainly I wouldn't be too flustered over a hot redhead sporting them, because hey, the DeLuise brother had them so they have to be cool. Uhh, where was I going with this? Oh, yeah, she helps blow up that rude Vorlon something right-good, so now I really enjoy her.

Stupid Vorlon. That's what you get for being a meanie-pants.

"The Long Night"

Well, it can't be that long, since apparently Londo has an even longer one sometime next year. :techman:

First of all, if I get any details mixed up between these two episodes I apologize. They really do come as one feature-length episode in more ways than is usual even for Babylon 5 lately, and I haven't watched them since last night, so...

There's a lot to like here, but I'll start with what struck me the most, and that was the Centauri arc. Cartagia's character kept me at the edge of my seat for all his madness 'til the end, and I knew the end was near because Londo's plan was so awesome. Seriously, anything involving G'Kar causing a ruckus is pretty guaranteed. But the directing here was outstanding; crazy as he is, it was still a shocker to see the emperor grabbing hold of Londo the way he did, and watching Vir take up reins and finish the job was excellent. Nothing was cooler than G'Kar breaking the new chains, though. Take that.

Oh, and Narn is free at last! I can handle these dimwitted Narn buffoons G'Kar has to deal with, with their absurd questions and terrible plans of action, so long as none of them start dancing around proclaiming 'wesa free'. That would be too much.

There's a really memorable scene between Sheridan and Ivanova here somewhere, certainly my favorite scene between them yet. When she's asking him to promise she's ensured a part of the coming battle, and how she has 'just enough trust left' to believe him, that's some powerful stuff.

Speaking of Sheridan, sacrificing the entire crew of a White Star is one heck of a rough ride. If that doesn't show everyone he means business, I don't know what will. I kind of wish the captain of the ship wasn't someone we'd never seen before, though, because then there would be even more dramatic impact as the viewers are left jaw-dropped at the fact that Sheridan sent someone familiar to his death. But that's a minor quibble; this is still a moving plot point.

Lorien is totally Yoda, by the way.

Hitting submit in 3... 2...
 
"Into the Fire"

That was a more abrupt end than I'd expected, but still a worthy finish. Oh, and some of the stuff that goes on here totally fits into my whole 'vague memories' stockpile, specifically Lorien, Sheridan, Delenn and the Vorlon and Shadow representatives. I got some major details and big predictions wrong, though -- for one thing, I could have sworn the scene happened on Babylon 5.

For another, the distant memory of Lorien's face kept entering my head and making me think it was the Vorlons' true form for the longest time, so I was half-expecting Kosh to be revealed as such for ages, so when I saw Lorien on Zha'dum I was look, 'oh, is that Kosh?' but then he pointed out that there was a Vorlon inside Sheridan, and I always figured Kosh for a guy who wouldn't point out the obvious, so I became flustered because my prediction fell apart, and...

What? Shut up and review the episode? :shrug:

I think I'm going to focus my thoughts this time on the big question, even though I've already partially answered it. Do I or do I not like the resolution of the Shadow War? Well, I've had more time to think about it, and you know... I really like it. If I want wars that end on big, triumphant explosions there are any number of things I can watch. Sometimes I like the big, climactic battle going on to play second fiddle to character truths, ideologies and so on. Without spoiling anything for those not in-the-know concerning Farscape and its finale, I'll simply say that that's a big chunk of why I like how that one ends. Here, it's a totally different ballgame in a vastly different ballpark, but I still feel the same way.

Although I kind of do concur with Mr Light that the representatives from both sides sounded a bit too much like children and not enough like supreme rulers of order and chaos. But hey.

I like how the initial, more bombastic (I'm sorry) part of Sheridan's plan involved asteroid bombs, because as The Lurker's Guide reminds me, that's how he took down the Black Star during the Earth-Minbari War. JMS has got continuity in spades. JMS has so much continuity, and he knows exactly how to employ it.

Initially I was on the fence about the ease in which Londo took down that Shadow fleet, but then I really grew to admire it. The Shadows fell to overconfidence again, allowing their ships to get bundled-up in one island. And then Londo merrily tapped a switch, Morden screamed out in what was sadly Ed Wasser's last great scene, then next thing I knew I was bursting out laughing and applauding because Vir got to do his hand wave he'd been pining for.

Bon voyage, all you First Ones. I'm happy to see them all getting the boot like I was just recently droning on about how I'd be trying to give them. Screw off, chaotic Shadows, and go organize yourselves elsewhere, cryptic Vorlons. And as for the rest of you, well, some of you had cool ships and at least one of you was Lorien, so you're alright... so long, thanks for all the fish and... oh, yeah, zorg.

In other news, when will Susan finally realize she should be spending a little less time smiling into the distance and a little more time getting frisky with Aragorn?
 
"Whaddaygonnado, Londo? Blow up the island?"

"Actually... now that you mention it..."

*click*

BOOOOOMMM!!


GOD I love that scene!
 
Not so smug NOW, eh, Mordon?

Ya know what contributed significantly to the power of the scene for me? How tiny that little device Londo had was. Tiny, tiny device, innocuous little clicking sound... an island vaporizes. Woah.
 
It was really a set of Centauri nailclippers

I'm not sure but I've long suspected that that (or its close relations) was one handy little prop. I'm not sure but
I think that in addition to blowing up the island of Celini, it may have been the jammer when Bester and Sheridan talked after the Earth Civil War and also the gadget that Eilerson used to literally collar the gangster who threatened Eilerson's ex on Crusade.

Jan
 
I found this thread whilst perusing google, and I sincerely have to thank Jeff for providing one of the most fun reads I've had in a while. It's been a long, long time since I first started catching Babylon 5 on occasions, and whilst I wasn't enamoured with it to start with (I was young, naive and preferred shows where I wouldn't miss major plot developments if I decided to go outside for a kick around) it all changed when I picked up a second hand copy of Severed Dreams on VHS.

The Londo moment at the start was funny, even if I didn't get all the references, but the switch to the volley from the Clarkstown on the Alexander and her fighter screen was something I hadn't witnessed before. The sheer tension from the music mixed with the tense conversation between Major Ryan and his first officer about having to fire on the Clarkstown added a lot of weight to what could have been starship porn, but added to that was characters speaking about tactics. Tactics that made sense and had consequences. I think at that moment my heart just exploded with utter joy in finding a show that seemed to finally fill in the void of having something I could love and feel passionate about, and felt...real...connectible. Earth ships looked like they'd been built by a race taking their first tentative steps in the galaxy - they were hulking monsters which looked very business like without thought to aesthetic form. Fighters moved in three dimensions of space. Humanity wasn't on a level playing field with the rest of the galaxy, and we still had our flaws, which often took B5 to some very dark places that previous sci-fi had only explored with the ever present reset button waiting be struck.

Moments is what the show had. Severed Dreams showed that with aplomb with the bombing of Mars ("They're not going to bomb civilians are they?! Holy s**t....") from the command staff deciding to make their stand against President Clark. But the key two moments which gave me physical goosebumps and made my heart ache with the tragedy of it all was the internal fighting on B5 (the slow motion footage of the Narns getting mowed down as the music swells is gut wrenching), and the final moments of the Churchill. You didn't get to see her role in the battle, but when it cuts to showing her a mass of fire and red hot mettle it's a real sucker punch to the gut, and then to have that final communication between Ryan and Hiroshi play out:

Ryan: Hiroshi! Get out of there! Get to the lifepods.
Hiroshi: Too late to get out! Our primary systems are hit. We've got fire on all decks now. There's nothing we can do now except...
Ryan: Hiroshi? HIROSHI!

:(


That single episode moved me in a way Star Trek has never managed. I appreciate Trek had better acting and a bigger budget, but it never had the heart of it's convictions to explore humanity fully. It was only with Babylon 5 that DS9 was forced to become the more intellectually mature, and in my opinion the most realistic in terms of humanities portrayal in the shows.

In short Babylon 5 nerfed Star Trek for me. Which isn't to say I don't enjoy watching it from time to time, but I am entirely miffed as to why Babylon 5 didn't develop the same deep fan based. I've also grown to dislike it when someone uses the warp core matrix to discombobulate the interplexing manifolds on Captain Janway's panties*1*2.

*1 Come on, if you're a Star Trek writer how could you not resist slipping such a line into the writers meetings?

*2 Little known fact - Star Fleet issue panties are known to suffer from manifold issues, which can make removing them almost impossible at the end of a long shift (hence it's rare to see Starfleet in civies).


Thanks once again Jeff for reminding me what it was once like to visit B5 anew, and I look forward to your future reviews.

P.s I know I'm new so please excuse a mega-long first post. I've had years of sitting on top of my B5 man love, without a any real release for it. :lol:
 
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