Oops, hopefully the edit fixes that. Sorry Jeff.
Watching Babylon 5 for the first time... *Spoilers, duh*
- Thread starter Quinton O'Connor
- Start date
I am not referring to direct quotes. I am referring to events and terms (Shadow, Rangers, Za'Ha'Dum vs. Khazad Dum, etc.) as Brian already pointed out earlier in the thread.
^Rangers sure, but Shadow? That's a stretch. (FWIW I think some of the early concept notes calls them "Shadow Men.") As for Z'ha'dum, we already established JMS denied that wasn't intended.
Of course there are references, but it's just one of several sources that had an apparent influence. 1984 for example leaps to mind; aside from the general Orwellian themes, things like the Ministry of Peace are taken right off the page, plus there's a fair chunk of a certain season 4 episode where the dialogue is essentially newspeak. (I don't want to to say more about that one for risk of spoilers.)
There are more of course from Lensman, Lovecraft, various mythologies from Babylonian to Arthurian, Forbidden Planet, even some WWII history and I'm pretty sure the idea for Zathras' time stabilizer in 'Babylon Squared' was borrowed from 'Demon with a Glass Hand'. I suppose what I'm driving at is that I rather think the magnitude of LOTR's influence tends to get a little overstated.
Of course there are references, but it's just one of several sources that had an apparent influence. 1984 for example leaps to mind; aside from the general Orwellian themes, things like the Ministry of Peace are taken right off the page, plus there's a fair chunk of a certain season 4 episode where the dialogue is essentially newspeak. (I don't want to to say more about that one for risk of spoilers.)
There are more of course from Lensman, Lovecraft, various mythologies from Babylonian to Arthurian, Forbidden Planet, even some WWII history and I'm pretty sure the idea for Zathras' time stabilizer in 'Babylon Squared' was borrowed from 'Demon with a Glass Hand'. I suppose what I'm driving at is that I rather think the magnitude of LOTR's influence tends to get a little overstated.
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I don't think Jeff has reached Babylon Squared yet. However, the point being that the LOTR influences are overstated is very sound. The Rangers, for instance, are only superficially like Tolkien's. In Tolkien they are the last pure descendants of Numenor with a background completely different from the warriors created by Valen. Their purpose really isn't the same as the Babylon 5 Rangers aren't led by anyone out to re-establish a monarchy.
Be careful, discussions about what other works have inspired B5 inevitably lead to spoiler territory. It has already happened twice in the last two pages!
True enough, even discussion of what the B5 story isn't is itself revealing of the story.
Anyway, that Bester guy, it seems Morden didn't contact him as he's obviously out of the loop with the whole Shadow business. Doesn't he seem a perfect recruit though?
Uh, 'Babylon Squared' was back in season one. Jeff's up to about midway through season 3. 'Interludes and Examinations' is up next, yes?
There's more to it, but that'd stray into spoiler territory. Suffice to say the the Psi Corps novels shed more light on the goings on behind the scenes.
As Bester said: "Through Clark, they've infiltrated the Psi Corps. And apparently they have their own plans for my telepaths. Whatever these aliens are, they're interfering with my plans for the future. I won't have it."
There's more to it, but that'd stray into spoiler territory. Suffice to say the the Psi Corps novels shed more light on the goings on behind the scenes.
War without End, I got the titles mixed up, the point is that the Zathrus comment spoils a bit.
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C'mon people... If you can't post without constantly dropping spoilers (or hints), just stop - OK? You can always start a new thread if you have a burning desire to discuss the overall themes, inspirations, and character fates of B5.
This is all I'm saying. Most of these similarities to LOTR are very superficial, but it's silly to say they aren't there. I am in no way trying to suggest that JMS stole the LOTR story or is a hack writer using other people's ideas. I'm just pointing out the similarities as I see them; I'm not trying to judge them.
I haven't read these books but I want to since apparently the entire B5 story is a carbon copy of it! 
Jeff O'Connor darts cautiously over the landmine that has allegedly been put in place since last he checked his thread, opting to ignore all posts in case there are spoilers abound... 
Jeff O'Connor darts cautiously over the landmine that has allegedly been put in place since last he checked his thread, opting to ignore all posts in case there are spoilers abound...
I'm a bit confoozled as to which was the last episode you saw. Can you remind me, so I do not accidentally spoil things for you?
"Ship of Tears"!
Got it. I've been re-watching the series form the beginning, inspired in part by reading your reviews.
Got it. I've been re-watching the series form the beginning, inspired in part by reading your reviews.
Well, I'm honored.
"Interludes and Examinations"
"You've watched them for years. The triumphs, the pitfalls, the glories and the rock-bottoms. You've tuned into PTEN and witnessed the awe of the sci-fi show everyone is talking about*. This Wednesday, everything changes. Someone. Will. Die."
*Measured by a group of fifty-three science fiction fans at Comic-Con.
Someone's going to die? Someone's going to die! Goodness gracious, it's... oh, it's just Adira. Yeah, I definitely feel bad for Londo and I'm ready to choke Morden over this for his loss, and I fully recognize that this is probably the passing of another opportunity for Londo to redeem himself. But since I haven't seen Adira (but for lovely black-and-white in this episode) in a long, long while, and when I did see her I was still on-the-fence about this show, it didn't strike me so much as it struck me because it struck Londo. Hey, whatever works.
So anyway, the late Richard Biggs gets to exercise a lot of his acting talent as Franklin breaks down and accepts the truth, leading to some wonderful scenes and...
...KOOOOOOOSH!
I've never trusted Morden. And I never will. I'll never forgive him... for the death of my Kosh!
Reading The Lurker's Guide article for this episode, I'm not remotely surprised to learn that no one wanted to talk to JMS for a couple of days after the screening. Apparently, Patricia Tallman was in tears, and considering her character is often nowhere to be found, anyway, that's a pretty serious accomplishment.
I mean, really, with Kosh gone, who is Lyta going to get her, um, services from? You can't tell me you didn't see something awkward going on the first time you saw a couple of her scenes with him, when you were in the dark about the whole thing like I still am. Whoever this Vorlon replacement ends up being, there's no guarantee they'll hold a candle to Kosh. I think for all the characters who will feel the loss of Kosh, Lyta is the most broken by all this. Ultimately, she may end up having to pursue relationships with humanoids, and for that she has my deepest sympathies.
By the way, Morden is an asshole.
This was a great episode. Any of the three main plot lines would have intrigued me, but combining Londo's 'the galaxy can burn', Franklin's resignation and...
...KOOOOOOOSH!
Talk about a satisfyingly bitter hour.
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