Demons/Terra Prime-Revisited.

[number6]

Without getting at all into TATV (we've got plenty of those threads around!), what are your thoughts about Demons/Terra Prime as the finale for ENT? Do you think they wrapped the BOTF thing well? Did you like the growing bond with Andorians, Tellarites and Vulcans?

I think this two parter really gives everyone something cool to do, something that captures the very essence of the characters they've become over four years.

It gives hints of "Things To Come" in the Star Trek universe, without spelling it out and leaving some things open to the imagination. In a way I'm glad we didn't get the Romulan War, but still a taste of it... Lord knows how much debate we would have had about how they got it right or wrong!!

It gives us a little Section 31 and sets up Kirk's era nicely.
This was pretty much a flawless Star Trek episode and wrapped up that era of the universe pretty well.

Who's with me??
Eh?
Eh?

 

[JiNX-01]

I love the Demons/Terra Prime story.
So many great pluses:

Trip and T'Pol getting lost in the mine (honestly, why won't men ask for directions?)
The utterly adorable! "scare tactic" .
Travis got to do stuff.
Trip MacGyver's his way out of a locked room.
Hoshi is left in charge.
Phlox's heartbreaking admission that losing little Elizabeth hurt as if she were his own child.
Archer's brilliant "the final frontier begins here..." speech.

And saving the best for last: That heart-rending scene with Trip and T'Pol.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Terra Prime made a great ending to the series. It shows the beginnings of the road to the alliance of planets, and postpones it to an indefinite point in the future where it doesn't feel too forced into the show, unlike TATV.
It also deals with core Trek issues of prejudice and racism nicely, and chronologically speaking, I think that the Trip / T'pol baby storyline foreshadows the idea of Spock nicely.

And it was one of the most emotional Trek episodes I've seen. I teared up twice in the episode. First when Phlox got upset and said he thought of the baby as his own, and then again when Trip broke down in front of T'Pol.

It would have been a good ending to the series without feeling like a forced ending.

 

[Gaith]

I only saw them when they first aired, but I had a few BIG problems with them...

- Mayweather hasn't been killed off yet? And he's getting a subplot, too? Really, guys?

- Enterprise's chief engineer can waltz around without being recognized, after saving Earth many times over? Wtf?

- One single laser, sitting still on a planet (that I assume rotates?) can boss around a whole solar system? Wtf?!


Maybe I'm being unfair and don't remember them very well, but it struck me as yet another piece of "racism bad, equality good: bet you didn't know that! Hey, look everyone, we Trek writers are still pushing the audience to think bold, new thoughts!" stale toast, with all the complexity of that awful bar sequence in Home.

 

[JiNX-01]

I only saw them when they first aired, but I had a few BIG problems with them...

- Mayweather hasn't been killed off yet? And he's getting a subplot, too? Really, guys?

- Enterprise's chief engineer can waltz around without being recognized, after saving Earth many times over? Wtf?

- One single laser, sitting still on a planet (that I assume rotates?) can boss around a whole solar system? Wtf?!


Maybe I'm being unfair and don't remember them very well, but it struck me as yet another piece of "racism bad, equality good: bet you didn't know that! Hey, look everyone, we Trek writers are still pushing the audience to think bold, new thoughts!" stale toast, with all the complexity of that awful bar sequence in Home.

you remembered the episodes almost perfectly. but T'Pol was also running around the mine and she didn't even hide her ears. Trip was recognized. Remember the meeting when the speaker tells the mob that Tucker is there?

But there was good stuff, too. Didn't you notice any of that?

 

[number6]

But there was good stuff, too. Didn't you notice any of that?

This is the ENT forum.!!

 

[el Chalupacabra]

Without getting at all into TATV (we've got plenty of those threads around!), what are your thoughts about Demons/Terra Prime as the finale for ENT? Do you think they wrapped the BOTF thing well? Did you like the growing bond with Andorians, Tellarites and Vulcans?

I think this two parter really gives everyone something cool to do, something that captures the very essence of the characters they've become over four years.

It gives hints of "Things To Come" in the Star Trek universe, without spelling it out and leaving some things open to the imagination. In a way I'm glad we didn't get the Romulan War, but still a taste of it... Lord knows how much debate we would have had about how they got it right or wrong!!

It gives us a little Section 31 and sets up Kirk's era nicely.
This was pretty much a flawless Star Trek episode and wrapped up that era of the universe pretty well.

Who's with me??
Eh?
Eh?

Hi 6

For the most part, I agree. Demons\Terra Prime is the true finale. Not only being one of the better episodes, it does wrap things up fairly well considering ENT was canceled just a few episodes prior. There would have been no way to fit the Earth Romulan war (which would have easily taken up all of Season 5, had it been produced!) in before Terra Prime, but yeah, at least we did see a little bit of the Romulans trying to undermine the groundwork of what later became the Federation.

I think that is my only real lament about Enterprise, which disagrees with you a little: it would have been so awesome to see the Earth Romulan war on screen.

 

[number6]

We had plenty of war stories on Star Trek. I can't see how they could have done the Romulan war better or differently than the Xindi war, or for that matter the Dominion War, the Klingon war, or the Borg war.. Star Trek, for having never been about that, seemed to get more than their fair share.

 

[Gaith]

you remembered the episodes almost perfectly. but T'Pol was also running around the mine and she didn't even hide her ears. Trip was recognized. Remember the meeting when the speaker tells the mob that Tucker is there?

But there was good stuff, too. Didn't you notice any of that?

I did; the Mars entry was very cool (Carl Sagan FTW!), Peter Weller had good presence, the hinting at the Federation stuff was decent... it was certainly watchable, and in ways obviously stronger than the first half of the series, but in a way, the fact that it was half-good made the bad half even more frustrating. Overall it just felt like a near-total lack of imagination. "Hey, let's use the cave set; just paint it gray!" "Hey, here's a bigot; wouldn't it be cool if he were a total hypocrite!" "Hey, let's show that space racism is bad!" I haven't seen enough Enterprise to know if it deserved better for a "real" finale, but I do think Trek as a whole deserved better.

That said, finale-wise, about anything's better than "Endshame".

 

[JiNX-01]

But there was good stuff, too. Didn't you notice any of that?

This is the ENT forum.!!

 

[el Chalupacabra]

We had plenty of war stories on Star Trek. I can't see how they could have done the Romulan war better or differently than the Xindi war, or for that matter the Dominion War, the Klingon war, or the Borg war.. Star Trek, for having never been about that, seemed to get more than their fair share.

For me, it was more about wanting to see how the Earth Romulan war wold play out on screen. I happen to like Romulans

 

[number6]

I like Romulans plenty.. I like what they did in S4, while still being true enough to "canon" that no human had seen a romulan..

 

[el Chalupacabra]

S4? What is that? A novel?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ S4 = Season 4.

 

[Dukhat]

From what I remember, the episodes were ok (with the exception of Peter Weller's stiff-as-cardboard acting...what the hell happened to that guy between Buckaroo Bonzai and this?), and were a great start to how the series should have been headed all along, but they really weren't meant to be a series finale, and I certainly didn't get that impression. There was simply more to the story that needed to be told to have a satisfying series ending.

I'm one of those rare people that doesn't particularly care for ENTERPRISE, and yet at the same time feel that it should have gotten a fifth, sixth, and seventh season. That way the right stories could have been told, and the ending would have been pretty darn impressive.

 

[el Chalupacabra]

^^ S4 = Season 4.

DUH!!! I can't beleive i spaced that. Makes sense now!

 

[gblews]

Maybe I'm being unfair and don't remember them very well, but it struck me as yet another piece of "racism bad, equality good: bet you didn't know that! Hey, look everyone, we Trek writers are still pushing the audience to think bold, new thoughts!" stale toast, with all the complexity of that awful bar sequence in Home.

The episodes' message had to do with the final frontiere actually being man's battles with his personal "demons". I believe it was one of the most subtle presentations of real world social issues I've ever seen in Star Trek.

I think the episode showed through pictures and character relationships that man actually had defeated one of his most dogged demons; racism/prejudice against other men. This was shown through Peter Weller's character and his relationship with his crew, and other members of the anti alien movement.

What made the episode stand out to me though was the presentation of the irony of humans defeat of racism against other men, while failing to recognize that the same things that used to cause bigotry against other men were at the root of the mistrust, fear, and hatred, against aliens.

This irony was presented, not by a character standing before the camera and informing us, it was shown simply by seeing who Weller's followers were and how they related to each other in conjunction with their actions.

And I don't know if this was all part of a master plan by Manny and his staff, but the theme of man's relationship to his fellow man started at the beginning of the season in Storm Front with the introduction of the Manhattan Nazis'. At one point in Storm Front part 2, we even see Archer tell Alicia that there is no racism in the 22nd century.

It seemed to me that the question of how humans, who have never had trouble finding reasons to hate and mistrust other humans, evolved to the point where they could actually accept "weird" looking aliens as equals, was one that needed to be addressed by Star Trek. Demons/TP, I think, dealt with the question and answer in an interesting and thankfully, subtle way.

I continue to believe that Demons/TP were the only two Enterprise episodes I would describe as "important". They are also among the few episodes I would present to a non Trek or non Ent fan as examples of the best of the series.

 

[arch101]

[QUOTE (with the exception of Peter Weller's stiff-as-cardboard acting...what the hell happened to that guy between Buckaroo Bonzai and this?)[/QUOTE]

He went to college and became a history professor.
(really!)

 

[Too Much Fun]

I've just finished watching "Terra Prime" for the first time and I am blown away. What an amazingly powerful final act this episode has. I can't believe it. "Star Trek: Enterprise" actually brought tears to my eyes! I'd only ever seen some of the more gimmicky episodes ("Regeneration", "These Are The Voyages", the mirror episodes, the augment trilogy, and the Klingon virus two-parter), and while I thought all but those first two were quite entertaining, with good drama and smart writing, "Demons" and "Terra Prime" have raised my appreciation of this series to a new level. I knew it could be fun, but I never knew it could have so much emotional resonance.

The business with the genetically engineered baby and the speech that Archer gave at the end of "Terra Prime" were so moving. I've expressed a lot of disgust towards Bakula's stiff acting in other episodes, but he did a terrific job with that speech. I know much of its power came from the writing, but it takes good acting to make even the greatest words hit that hard emotionally.

Why oh why did they make another episode after this one? If anything, "These Are The Voyages..." should have just been a direct-to-dvd feature like BSG's "The Plan" (they're both basically extraneous fanwanks after all). "Terra Prime" is one of the best Star Trek finales I've ever seen and it was all this series needed for a final send-off.

It's way better than the series finale of "Star Trek: Voyager" and while not quite as intense or touching as "What You Leave Behind", it's certainly more consistent since it doesn't have any weak subplots. I even enjoyed the tacked-on Mayweather pseudo-romance and Tucker's last scene with T'Pol was beautiful. Lots of stellar acting in this one raised my opinions of not just Bakula, but other cast members as well.

John Bilingsley's line about the Enterprise crew becoming his new family and his sorrow over the baby was what started my tears in the first place. I've always found his style of speaking as this character to be a bit phony-sounding, but he proved here that it would not stop him from expressing emotion very movingly.

Jolene Blalock saying, "Hello. I am your mother." all monotone was hilarious, and like Brent Spiner as Data, at the end she was very convincing playing someone who was hurting inside, but can't show it too much because of her nature. Everyone involved in this episode should be proud of the work they did.

 

[Mjolnir]

These two episodes are pure Trek. Gene Roddenberry's vision for the future was mankind overcoming his darker side. Todays problem is people like Paxton, who refuse to think of anyone unlike themselves.
Archer here has finally learned his own lesson from the Xindi arc, that lethal force isn't always the way. However bad it gets, we can't let go of who we are just for revenge. Trip could have easily killed Paxton for what he did, but didn't. Again, he learned the same thing from his sister getting killed.
In either case, it's all about evolving past our nature to accomplish something greater, which is what Trek is all about in the end.




Now I will say this, Anthony Montgomery's "acting" cracked me up. Almost as bad as "Horizon" when he tried to act like he was sad. You could've cut his scenes and the story wouldn't suffer a bit.