Why was the Defiant class not mass produced?

[heavylids]

Early ship destruction could be the result of the engineer's inability to re-modulate the shields fast enough. Not every starship has the perfect crew. Earth may be advanced in the 24th century, but no doubt there would still be people that obtain high positions because someone is their daddy.

 

[Cyke101]

Additionally, Starfleet sent an Akira and two nameless (re: not plot-powered) Defiants against three Warbirds to fetch the Prometheus. Now, while I wouldn't go out and say a Defiant can match a Warbird in weaponry or one-on-one battle, it's pretty telling that Starfleet would dispatch them against Romulan powerhouses.

 

[Rarewolf]

Like I said, Plot Armor. It's a main character ship so it won't take as much damage from something that would usually destroy another ship.

Like how in BOBW when the crew take back Locutus the Borg Cube simply tries to stop the shuttle instead of just destroying the Ent-D Saucer and Battle Section, whereas DS9 showed how easily they destroyed other Starfleet ships in single shots.

The other thing about the huge battles is the SFX team never had either the time, money or patience to do the shield bubbles.

I suppose the Defiant class' biggest advantage over the Borg would be they had no assimilated knowledge of their abilities. Same for the Sovereign Class Enterprise E. In Q Who? you could argue they first played with the Enterprise D, rather than just destroying it outright.

 

[Photon]

I noticed that in two battles- The second Borg attack, and Chintoka, that the Defiant lasted longer than the Akiras, Steamrunners, ect.

I saw multiple Sabres, Akiras, and Steamrunners destroyed in both battles, while the Defiant still remained.

In the case of the Borg attack, it lasted slightly longer.

It had a huge hole in its nacelle, and it was still firing back.. tough s.o.b that ship.

"Tough Little Ship"

 

[Anwar]

Additionally, Starfleet sent an Akira and two nameless (re: not plot-powered) Defiants against three Warbirds to fetch the Prometheus. Now, while I wouldn't go out and say a Defiant can match a Warbird in weaponry or one-on-one battle, it's pretty telling that Starfleet would dispatch them against Romulan powerhouses.

I thought it was made clear that the Warbirds are more bark than bite, they're much larger than Galaxy-classes but not significantly stronger and in the Dominion War they were the ones taking the biggest losses in fleet combat.

 

[Jono]

Additionally, Starfleet sent an Akira and two nameless (re: not plot-powered) Defiants against three Warbirds to fetch the Prometheus. Now, while I wouldn't go out and say a Defiant can match a Warbird in weaponry or one-on-one battle, it's pretty telling that Starfleet would dispatch them against Romulan powerhouses.

Well, to be fair Starfleet sent two Defiants and an Akira to take down the Prometheus and they just happen to find three Type-B Warbirds sitting there with their quarry rather than Starfleet going, "What could take down three warbirds and a stolen advance prototype that has already disabled one of our starships?"

However, in the end the Romulans were pretty much driven off by a "plot-powered starship", it just happened not to be a Defiant.

 

[Photon]

Additionally, Starfleet sent an Akira and two nameless (re: not plot-powered) Defiants against three Warbirds to fetch the Prometheus. Now, while I wouldn't go out and say a Defiant can match a Warbird in weaponry or one-on-one battle, it's pretty telling that Starfleet would dispatch them against Romulan powerhouses.

I thought it was made clear that the Warbirds are more bark than bite, they're much larger than Galaxy-classes but not significantly stronger and in the Dominion War they were the ones taking the biggest losses in fleet combat.

Totally agree here. Warbirds were always awesome looking, but awesome fighting was another story. Again, a barrage of QT's + ablative armor=smoked Warbird.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The plot powered ship concept is true- and one big problem as a result is that we never get see how awesome some other ships are because of it.

They may get hyped in tech specs, but in an actual battle scene, they're the ones that get blown up the most!

Maybe they're more powerful, but maybe the Defiant is more tougher.

The Klingon Super Battle ship -haven't seen much action from it- but it did get pounded by another Plot Powered ship on DS9.

The Romulan Warbird- in some ways the design seems smart-so much of it is hollow that you have to be close up just to get a good shot.

On the other hand what looks like the bridge is hanging right in front for targeting..


The battle scene in First Contact was great- I could have watched it for 30 more minutes over anything else in the film..

 

[USS Triumphant]

Even in her battered state, the Defiant managed to dodge a couple of attacks when the Enterprise-E came.

Don't forget that the Bozeman was still in the fray, too. Non-canon sources tell us that she is another Sovvy - but ignoring those and sticking to canon, she's a Soyuz-class! Maybe the Borg were ignoring them most of the time in favor of larger targets that were more obvious threats?

 

[AriesIV]

If Starfleet was smart they'd create the ultimate anti-Borg weapon: A Miranda... packed with Red Shirts.

The explosion would knock planets out of orbit!

 

[KHAAAN!]

If Starfleet was smart they'd create the ultimate anti-Borg weapon: A Miranda... packed with Red Shirts.

The explosion would knock planets out of orbit!

That post got me thinking about the U.S.S. Reliant and the Genesis Device. Now I'm wondering, if the Federation had the technologic expertise of the Genesis Device, why not weaponize it in the face of dire threats like the Borg and the Dominion? I know that it's unethical and all, but isn't it extiction versus survival? With stakes that high, I would imagine any weapon would not be unimaginable. Plus, this is just the type of moral quandry that Trek is all about!

Not really about the Defiant, just an aside. I really do think the Defiant is the most awesome ship in the fleet.

 

[Anwar]

Couldn't the Borg just shoot down the Genesis Torpedo, or find some way of neutralizing the Genesis effect? They're clearly advanced enough to counter the Genesis torpedo. All using it would do is stop one attack and cause escalation.

 

[KHAAAN!]

Couldn't the Borg just shoot down the Genesis Torpedo, or find some way of neutralizing the Genesis effect? They're clearly advanced enough to counter the Genesis torpedo. All using it would do is stop one attack and cause escalation.

They would probably also just adapt and then assimilate the technology for their own purposes, yeah I didn't think that one through.

 

[Cyke101]

Additionally, Starfleet sent an Akira and two nameless (re: not plot-powered) Defiants against three Warbirds to fetch the Prometheus. Now, while I wouldn't go out and say a Defiant can match a Warbird in weaponry or one-on-one battle, it's pretty telling that Starfleet would dispatch them against Romulan powerhouses.

I thought it was made clear that the Warbirds are more bark than bite, they're much larger than Galaxy-classes but not significantly stronger and in the Dominion War they were the ones taking the biggest losses in fleet combat.

Totally agree here. Warbirds were always awesome looking, but awesome fighting was another story. Again, a barrage of QT's + ablative armor=smoked Warbird.

But where has it been established that Warbirds have more bark than bite? They were always on-par with the Enterprise-D in TNG, and that ship was no weakling by any means. Slower, sure, but they don't have very many low-end feats.

 

[Jono]

Even in her battered state, the Defiant managed to dodge a couple of attacks when the Enterprise-E came.

Don't forget that the Bozeman was still in the fray, too. Non-canon sources tell us that she is another Sovvy - but ignoring those and sticking to canon, she's a Soyuz-class! Maybe the Borg were ignoring them most of the time in favor of larger targets that were more obvious threats?

The Bozeman was there at the start but was she still there when the Enterprise arrived? I don't recall seeing a Soyuz in the battle scenes.

I thought it was made clear that the Warbirds are more bark than bite, they're much larger than Galaxy-classes but not significantly stronger and in the Dominion War they were the ones taking the biggest losses in fleet combat.

Totally agree here. Warbirds were always awesome looking, but awesome fighting was another story. Again, a barrage of QT's + ablative armor=smoked Warbird.

But where has it been established that Warbirds have more bark than bite? They were always on-par with the Enterprise-D in TNG, and that ship was no weakling by any means. Slower, sure, but they don't have very many low-end feats.

I think they're talking about in relation to its apparent size. The Warbird is around twice as long as the Galaxy but it is a lot of empty space, so while it looks massive it probably would have a mass not too dissimilar to the Galaxy class. So while it is "bigger" than the Galaxy for it to be on par could be see as it having a worse bark than its bite.

 

[Anwar]

We see a ship that looks like a Miranda at the battle in "First Contact", I assumed that was the Bozeman.

 

[MikeS]

It was stated in 'The Search' that the prototype had problems, it took a while for the DS9 crew to get them sorted out, but once that had been accomplished I'd assume the Defiant class would be put into mass production...

That always makes me laugh. Teams and teams of specialists with all their specialist equipment cannot get some new piece of technology working, but take it to an old Cardassian station on the frontier...

A squadron w/ablative armor and QT's would take care of one Cube at great loss to the Defiants of course.

Don't know if the E-E's QT's had more blast power than the Defiant's but QT's shot thru the Cube's hull by the E-E basically ended the Cube. Also, the 3 QT's blew the sphere apart w/out a whimper.
Yes yes, the sphere was compromised b/c it had done the time-thing, but its a friggin Borg ship

I always interpreted the scene as Picard having retained some tactical knowledge from his assimilation... Doesn't he say something along the lines of "aim at this [weak] point"?

 

[Anwar]

It wasn't just retained knowledge, he still has a connection to the Collective that lets him hear their thoughts. So he could hear them saying "Aw crap, these new weapons made our shields fail in this one spot and if we get hit there too much we'll blow!"

 

[The Badger]

^ Right. And it wasn't just the Enterprise E that destroyed the cube. Picard sent the location of it's weak points to all that remained of the fleet, which then launched a simultaneous attack.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Which argues the point-why didn't they mass produce those Defiants by the time of the second Borg attack?

The Defiant's bugs had been smoothed over, and it was proven against other bigger, hostile ships.

They even deliberately avoided using even their newest Flagship against the Borg in this serious (Earth is on the line again) attack.