Wow, Kirsten Beyer made VOY not suck!

[Bishop76]

Surely you jest? It was a badly acted snooze-fest.

"Where No Man..." is how Trek pilots are done. I'd also put "Broken Bow" (silly rub-down and all) above "Emissary".

Which pilot wasn't badly acted? When I say best pilot, btw, I exclude WNMHGB because it's not even in the running. It wins hands down. I do think Emissary was the best pilot of the 80s-00s Trek pretty much for the same reasons Christopher mentioned.

...but then, I think BSG is the most overrated load of rubbish in sci-fi history. (*ducks*)

I tend to agree. I think it's first season and a half were really good but once they decided to get messagey and self-important it went straight down the shitter.

 

[Christopher]

Oh, get over it. Lien wasn't the best of actresses and Kes was hardly an interesting character (she could have been - but that's just another missed opportunity Voyager was filled with).

Jennifer Lien is an excellent actress, as she proved in "Warlord." And have you heard any of her animation voice work? As Agent L in Men in Black: The Series, she created a characterization that was very distinct from Kes; while Kes's voice and delivery were youthful, sweet, and emotionally expressive, L's voice was cool and professional, yet sardonic and devastatingly sultry at the same time. It was still recognizably Lien's voice, yet conveyed a completely different character. That kind of subtle yet profound transformation of nuance demonstrates considerable acting talent, even if she infrequently got the opportunity to demonstrate it on Voyager.

And Kes was potentially a fantastic character, but the writers rarely made use of the possibilities. I'll grant that it was a missed opportunity, but I disagree completely that she was "hardly... interesting."

 

[ST-One]

Oh, get over it. Lien wasn't the best of actresses and Kes was hardly an interesting character (she could have been - but that's just another missed opportunity Voyager was filled with).

Jennifer Lien is an excellent actress, as she proved in "Warlord." And have you heard any of her animation voice work? As Agent L in Men in Black: The Series, she created a characterization that was very distinct from Kes; while Kes's voice and delivery were youthful, sweet, and emotionally expressive, L's voice was cool and professional, yet sardonic and devastatingly sultry at the same time. It was still recognizably Lien's voice, yet conveyed a completely different character. That kind of subtle yet profound transformation of nuance demonstrates considerable acting talent, even if she infrequently got the opportunity to demonstrate it on Voyager.

And Kes was potentially a fantastic character, but the writers rarely made use of the possibilities. I'll grant that it was a missed opportunity, but I disagree completely that she was "hardly... interesting."

I guess that's the problem - I've only seen Lien in VOY...

Kes... well, most of what we've seen of her wasn't interesting. There were a few moments that had potential; but, as with many things on VOY, that potential wasn't used.
The character, when it was dropped from the show, was uninteresting and didn't leave much of a mark behind.

 

[SicOne]

^ and somewhere in his den, Lynx is preparing a blistering rebuttal...

 

[flemm]

Oh, get over it.

Actually, the more reactions like this I see to Lynx's posts, the more I sympathize with him and hope he keeps posting his opinion here. His views on Voyager are unpopular. I don't share them. But they don't offend me. He likes what he likes, and there's no reason why he should allow himself to be cowed by posters irritated with his point of view. Just put him on ignore if you tire of reading his opinion.

 

[LightningStorm]

Oh, get over it.

Actually, the more reactions like this I see to Lynx's posts, the more I sympathize with him and hope he keeps posting his opinion here. His views on Voyager are unpopular. I don't share them. But they don't offend me. He likes what he likes, and there's no reason why he should allow himself to be cowed by posters irritated with his point of view. Just put him on ignore if you tire of reading his opinion.

This!
People need to pay close attention to this.

 

[SicOne]

So...if you put someone on "ignore", you don't see their posts? If someone's response to their post includes a quote from them, do you see it then?

I've been on the BBS for several years, but have never delved too deeply into the nuts and bolts of how it works.

 

[Defcon]

So...if you put someone on "ignore", you don't see their posts? If someone's response to their post includes a quote from them, do you see it then?

I've been on the BBS for several years, but have never delved too deeply into the nuts and bolts of how it works.

Where the post of the ignored poster would be you see a sentence like "You are ignoring this user" or something to that effect. If s/he is quoted, you'll see the quoted part of the post, though.

 

[Bishop76]

Yeah, if someone quotes then you'll see it in the quote and you'll see a little placeholder when they post but you won't see the content of their post.

 

[ST-One]

Oh, get over it.

Actually, the more reactions like this I see to Lynx's posts, the more I sympathize with him and hope he keeps posting his opinion here. His views on Voyager are unpopular. I don't share them. But they don't offend me. He likes what he likes, and there's no reason why he should allow himself to be cowed by posters irritated with his point of view. Just put him on ignore if you tire of reading his opinion.

I like Voyager myself.
But you don't see me posting over and over and over again that I think season five was the best.

 

[SicOne]

So...if you put someone on "ignore", you don't see their posts? If someone's response to their post includes a quote from them, do you see it then?

I've been on the BBS for several years, but have never delved too deeply into the nuts and bolts of how it works.

Where the post of the ignored poster would be you see a sentence like "You are ignoring this user" or something to that effect. If s/he is quoted, you'll see the quoted part of the post, though.

Yeah, if someone quotes then you'll see it in the quote and you'll see a little placeholder when they post but you won't see the content of their post.

Aha! Thanks, guys. Learn something new every day.

 

[label]

And Kes was potentially a fantastic character, but the writers rarely made use of the possibilities. I'll grant that it was a missed opportunity, but I disagree completely that she was "hardly... interesting."

This was always how I felt. I went into Voyager thinking the show had enormous potential and I think even with the same exact Season 1 cast, the show could have done really well if they had some better writers to shake things up. The show could have been all kinds of cool if they hadn't quickly morphed into the Enterprise, but really far, far away but that's exactly what the show became and that's a shame because there was real potential for drama, conflict and character arcs that would be inherent in telling a long term story like Voyagers'.

Kes was a perfect example of this......interesting possibilities, unrealized potential. Same with the show......it started off ok, but quickly devolved into a clone of TNG and that's the last thing we needed or wanted.

Also, count me as one who was very impressed by Emissary. Easily the best written Trek pilot in the modern age.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Oh, get over it.

Actually, the more reactions like this I see to Lynx's posts, the more I sympathize with him and hope he keeps posting his opinion here. His views on Voyager are unpopular. I don't share them. But they don't offend me. He likes what he likes, and there's no reason why he should allow himself to be cowed by posters irritated with his point of view. Just put him on ignore if you tire of reading his opinion.

Agreed wholeheartedly. The incessant bashing is incredibly tiresome.

I too think Jennifer Lien's an excellent actress. I never did get the hate from some quarters.

 

[craig keith]

Oh, get over it.

Actually, the more reactions like this I see to Lynx's posts, the more I sympathize with him and hope he keeps posting his opinion here. His views on Voyager are unpopular. I don't share them. But they don't offend me. He likes what he likes, and there's no reason why he should allow himself to be cowed by posters irritated with his point of view. Just put him on ignore if you tire of reading his opinion.

Agreed wholeheartedly. The incessant bashing is incredibly tiresome.

I too think Jennifer Lien's an excellent actress. I never did get the hate from some quarters.

I agree that she is a great in Voyager and the animated MIB stuff but i just dont think the character had enough to do, except as a nurse.

I did a bit of reasarch and apart from the very occasioncal con appereance, she has all but retired from acting, which is a great shame.

 

[craig keith]

Anywaz i think its time we got back on topic .... Kirsten Beyer ..... Wow !!!

 

[Lynx]

^ and somewhere in his den, Lynx is preparing a blistering rebuttal...

Nah, I see no reason to start any vendettas here. So far, this debate is rather civilized so let's keep it that way. Besides that, I've learned some lessons the hard way. Fighting with other posters won't accomplish anything more than warnings and bans and I try to avoid that.

But that won't stop me from writing down my opinions in a civilized way.

Personally I do think that Voyager's seasons 1-3 are great and that Kes is a great character who should have deserved something better than she got. Nothing wrong with that, I hope.

 

[ST-One]

Oy...


Anyway... I've put these two books on my 'to read' list

 

[OverlordSpock]

The show could have been all kinds of cool if they hadn't quickly morphed into the Enterprise, but really far, far away but that's exactly what the show became and that's a shame because there was real potential for drama, conflict and character arcs that would be inherent in telling a long term story like Voyagers'.

The problem with Voyager, as I see it, more than anything else is that it should have been a truly serialized series. It had serial elements, but it really didn't truly tell a serialized story. Not to compare it too closely to NuBSG, but if it had followed more of that story-telling format (one episode leads directly into the next—while still allowing for standalone stories), it would have been a lot easier for the writers to deal with the Starfleet/Maquis tension. I'm not saying it couldn't be done in Voyager's more episodic form, but it would've been easier as a much more close knit show.

However, Voyager appeared a bit too early for the modern serialized form. That, and I think the producers may have been trying to distance it some from DS9's more serialized format (which really wasn't as serialized as NuBSG either).

 

[Christopher]

^Actually it was the UPN network that discouraged serialization (and other aspects of continuity like cumulative damage to the ship) on VGR. They wanted to be free to show the episodes in whatever order they wanted (and there are some significant differences between production and airing order).

 

[Tropical_Night]

Have you noticed when ever there is a really good idea shot down it can always be traced back to "the network didn't want it" or "rick berman didn't want it"...